Proposal: Sabres & Ducks

[KeyserSoze81]

idk I'd be pretty ok securing a player like Henrique for that package all things considered. I'm not as concerned with his game falling off a cliff like some other 30yr olds, maybe by year 4, but even then do we trust Botts to fix the issues by attracting UFA's or finding the mythical 'younger 2C' in a trade? Seems like an easy add, I'll worry about '23-'24 if there's actually something to worry about by then.

This is where I am. His value is fine now, and what are the alternatives? Can we attract Haula or Pageau without significant overpayment? We do not have the assets to acquire a top 2C. Henrique fills a gaping hole in the roster and gives the roster more balance. MoJo slides back to wing next year, Cozens will be able to join the team as a sheltered 3C or 2RW either next year or the following. I feel a whole lot more comfortable with Henrique at 5.8M than Johansen at 8M or Turris at 6M.

 

[Jim Bob]

His contract could or will be bad if he declines during it's duration, but right now I'd disagree with any notion that he's overpaid. At 5.8M he's paid fair market value for a veteran center who consistently puts up 40-50 points. 2nd line money for a guy who would be the 5th or 6th best forward on most good teams.

I definitely tried to be keep the asking price modest in respect for the fact that teams aren't going to pay a premium due to the risk involved with the contract.

I didn't say he was overpaid. I said it was a bad contract.

It's 4 years at almost $6M per for a 40ish pt center on the wrong side of 30yo.

That won't age well.

The Sabres already have $15M tied up in winger contracts that aren't aging well. I wouldn't want to add to that issue.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Ideally the Ducks will be able to bring back Grant and Deslauriers, and could run something like this:

Ritchie - Getzlaf - Kase
Rakell - Steel - Silfverberg
2020 early pick/Zegras - Terry
Deslauriers - Grant - Rowney

Puts young guys like Ritchie, Kase and Steel in a position to take the next step, and you keep that defensively capable 4th line together so that you can properly shelter a "kid line".

 

[Duck Off]

Good proposal but I’d pass. Our top 4 is fine when healthy, and we need Rico until Steel proves more. Rico can also play wing just fine. Yeah I worry a bit about the contract (he’s worth every penny right now) long term, but he’s versatile enough to where his contract shouldn’t be too bad. I’d only trade him for a much better offer. He’s not a sexy player (wife would disagree), but he’s a necessary player. Great in locker room too.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I didn't say he was overpaid. I said it was a bad contract.

It's 4 years at almost $6M per for a 40ish pt center on the wrong side of 30yo.

That won't age well.

The Sabres already have $15M tied up in winger contracts that aren't aging well. I wouldn't want to add to that issue.

It's not a bad contract until it becomes one. I see the potential, but it's not a given that Henrique doesn't continue to earn his money for the rest of the contract. He's been consistent year to year, hasn't missed time with any severe injury and the contract ends shortly after he turns 34. If he's still a solid 40 point guy at that time, he'll have lived up to the contract.

 

[Djp]

Henrique at 50% in the off season is easier to swallow. adding a n ED exempt piece coming back also need to be there

Laaksonen is ED exempt so Im not all that interested in moving him,

 

[Djp]

It's not a bad contract until it becomes one. I see the potential, but it's not a given that Henrique doesn't continue to earn his money for the rest of the contract. He's been consistent year to year, hasn't missed time with any severe injury and the contract ends shortly after he turns 34. If he's still a solid 40 point guy at that time, he'll have lived up to the contract.

if Henrique has 2 yrs left it wouldnt be bad...but it doesnt it has 2 more years on toip of that. that i dead weight.

being consistent year to year means utter crap when you get past 30. You can fall off a cliff just like that.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Good proposal but I’d pass. Our top 4 is fine when healthy, and we need Rico until Steel proves more. Rico can also play wing just fine. Yeah I worry a bit about the contract (he’s worth every penny right now) long term, but he’s versatile enough to where his contract shouldn’t be too bad. I’d only trade him for a much better offer. He’s not a sexy player (wife would disagree), but he’s a necessary player. Great in locker room too.

To clarify I didn't picture Miller in the top 4. 3rd pairing but hopefully would be able to help the powerplay. Seems like an offensive Dman who got squeezed out of playing in offensive situations. Might end up being a decent buy low, sell high guy. I probably should have some more value coming Anaheim's way though.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

if Henrique has 2 yrs left it wouldnt be bad...but it doesnt it has 2 more years on toip of that. that i dead weight.

being consistent year to year means utter crap when you get past 30. You can fall off a cliff just like that.

You can fall off a cliff, but not everyone does, and it's by no means certain that Henrique will.

Again, dead weight is not an applicable term until Henrique actually proves otherwise. He's not deadweight for as long as he's earning his keep, which he is right now and may continue to do for another four years.

I understand that it's a potentially bad contract and not wanting to take that risk. But it's also may continue to be fine. Neither of us can say with certainty.

 

[robbieboy3686]

His contract could or will be bad if he declines during it's duration, but right now I'd disagree with any notion that he's overpaid. At 5.8M he's paid fair market value for a veteran center who consistently puts up 40-50 points. 2nd line money for a guy who would be the 5th or 6th best forward on most good teams.

I definitely tried to be keep the asking price modest in respect for the fact that teams aren't going to pay a premium due to the risk involved with the contract.

Not to mention his leadership and ability to play the wing if needed

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Henrique at 50% in the off season is easier to swallow. adding a n ED exempt piece coming back also need to be there

Laaksonen is ED exempt so Im not all that interested in moving him,

There's no chance in hell the Ducks are retaining 2.9M for 4 years on a player who is currently earning his salary.

It's an absurd suggestion to begin with, but 100% not happening for a budget team that already has too much non roster money on the books.

They're fine with keeping him (hasn't shown any decline since they signed him), and aren't going to jump through ridiculous hoops to try and shed his contract, let alone only half of it.

 

[Chainshot]

idk I'd be pretty ok securing a player like Henrique for that package all things considered. I'm not as concerned with his game falling off a cliff like some other 30yr olds, maybe by year 4, but even then do we trust Botts to fix the issues by attracting UFA's or finding the mythical 'younger 2C' in a trade? Seems like an easy add, I'll worry about '23-'24 if there's actually something to worry about by then.

I'm on record as wanting a collection of 3C's rather than trying to find a perfect fit as a 2C since most of the 2C talk are just people pining for a 1B type like O'Reilly anyway.

I'm worried about his game falling off well before the end of that deal.

 

[tsujimoto74]

If I'm Buffalo, I'd pass on a 30 year old center signed for 5.8 million for 4 more years.

That's the rub. Henrique is a fine hockey player. He would fill a need for the Sabres. But that contract kills what interest I would have in him. We've already got Okposo's monster contract to deal with. Tying up that much cap for that long in a guy who's 30+ is gonna cause problems.

 

[DarthProbert]

Not interested in trading Henrique for anything short of an overpayment until Steel/Lundestrom/Groulx/Zegras/whoever the hell else proves they can handle being a top 6 C.

So, wait until the rebuild is over, Henrique is 2 years older and declining, and getting less ice time to pump up what trade value he has left.

 

[MMC]

So, wait until the rebuild is over, Henrique is 2 years older and declining, and getting less ice time to pump up what trade value he has left.

That's fine we'll keep Henrique then

 

[Beerz]

No thanks.

 

[dracom]

Henrique at 50% in the off season is easier to swallow. adding a n ED exempt piece coming back also need to be there

Laaksonen is ED exempt so Im not all that interested in moving him,

so not only do you want us to retain 50% for 4 years. You want us to add an ED exempt player. AND you want to take out the most important piece to us in Laaksonen...

wow... it's like you don't understand that trades need to benefit both teams and not just your own.

 

[HaNotsri]

You can fall off a cliff, but not everyone does, and it's by no means certain that Henrique will.

Again, dead weight is not an applicable term until Henrique actually proves otherwise. He's not deadweight for as long as he's earning his keep, which he is right now and may continue to do for another four years.

I understand that it's a potentially bad contract and not wanting to take that risk. But it's also may continue to be fine. Neither of us can say with certainty.

Gorges, Moulson, Okposo and now Skinner has joined the happy cliffdiving family.
Henrique would be a cap dump after a month in Buffalo, we need youngsters, not another Sobotka or Berglund.

The trade value is fair but streaky players just become mediocre in our environment of spleen.

 

[Paul4587]

This is a very fair offer. Good proposal. From a Ducks perspective I would do it. Leaves a big hole to fill but next season we won’t be competing and should see enough strides from Steel to eat up some of that ice time.

Grant would need to be re-signed before I pull the trigger though.

 

[Djp]

To clarify I didn't picture Miller in the top 4. 3rd pairing but hopefully would be able to help the powerplay. Seems like an offensive Dman who got squeezed out of playing in offensive situations. Might end up being a decent buy low, sell high guy. I probably should have some more value coming Anaheim's way though.

As a beating man over 85% of players who are past 35 plummet to severe negative value on contract they have or nobody will sign them.

You still failed to address my objection of including an ED exempt Dman that you aren’t going to get.

You want anything of value, Okposo is getting sent back.

 

[Jim Bob]

It's not a bad contract until it becomes one. I see the potential, but it's not a given that Henrique doesn't continue to earn his money for the rest of the contract. He's been consistent year to year, hasn't missed time with any severe injury and the contract ends shortly after he turns 34. If he's still a solid 40 point guy at that time, he'll have lived up to the contract.

The Sabres can't have almost $21M in cap tied up in Skinner, Okposo, and Henrique for the next four years.

No matter how you spin it, that contract isn't what I would feel comfortable adding for what he brings to the table.

There will be cheaper options for similar production. If the contract only had one or two season left on it while the Sabres wait for Cozens, then maybe.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I'd prefer giving a younger guy like Haula or Pageau a stupid contract and having to live with that then to trade assets for another teams bad contract. Some good players will shake loose this offseason, be ready with the cap space and assets to get them. Don't force a move like this when the season is already lost.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

As a beating man over 85% of players who are past 35 plummet to severe negative value on contract they have or nobody will sign them.

You still failed to address my objection of including an ED exempt Dman that you aren’t going to get.

You want anything of value, Okposo is getting sent back.

Your completely made up statistics mean nothing, and no 35+ players are being discussed here. Henrique's contract ends in his age 33/34 season.

The majority of your fellow Sabres seem to think the value here is fine. Some have no interest in the contract which I expected and can understand. Of course Anaheim isn't taking Okposo, or doing something stupid like retaining 50%, definitely was not worth mentioning.

 

[d0rkwing]

I’d do it retaining 1m on Henrique’s contract, tbh

 

[Djp]

Your completely made up statistics mean nothing, and no 35+ players are being discussed here. Henrique's contract ends in his age 33/34 season.

The majority of your fellow Sabres seem to think the value here is fine. Some have no interest in the contract which I expected and can understand. Of course Anaheim isn't taking Okposo, or doing something stupid like retaining 50%, definitely was not worth mentioning.

Thiseother sabres fans are desperate

I meant to say 32

When you pass 32 statistically players drop off and are a negative ROI. Go back and do research on players after 32 and what happens to their production.

For every Ovie there are 15 who are overpaid and others who retire or don’t get resigned like Pominville as an example.

Historically given his stats he’s overpaid for his point production.