GDT: Sabres @ Caps | 9.20.14 5 PM | CSN & NHLN

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

There's a difference between a reach like Perron, and reaching for someone you could have taken in the 7th round the year before after you had already had him at your development camp. It reeks of bad scouting and worse asset management. This is a player who had already passed through the entire draft twice, and then suddenly he was worth trading up for a 3rd round selection of him?

The Blues could have had Perron in the 7th round the year before. So by your own assertion, that's horrible asset management.

You're also taking the stance that Walker is a static asset. That he was the exact same prospect the previous two years, and hadn't shown any growth or increased potential. Asserting that the Caps not taking him those two years is a failure in scouting is silly, since it means that every other team failed as well.

Trading up for him more than likely indicates that another team was targeting him, and the Caps got wind of it. You have a problem with the Caps moving up aggressively to make sure they get their guy?

The success of the Walker pick won't depend on this nonsense argument that trading up into the 3rd round is some kind of egregious management. It'll depend entirely on his NHL fortunes.

 

[usiel]

Sabres fan here. Did anyone of the young guys the Sabres played stand out to Washington fans?

I was at the game mainly just Ristolainen (looks great) and a bit of Grigs. Didn't notice Bennett much at all.

 

[Hivemind]

The Blues could have had Perron in the 7th round the year before. So by your own assertion, that's horrible asset management.

Apples and oranges here. Perron went from a completely unknown asset playing in midget C hockey to AAA hockey to tearing it up in the Q in the span of a couple years. He was a late bloomer that was on many teams' radar. Walker was in the Capitals' development camp in 2012. They had first hand experience with the player already. He spent the previous season in the USHL, a league that's often drafted out of (unlike AAA hockey). The Capitals brass clearly had scouted him and decided he wasn't even worth a 7th round pick.

You're also taking the stance that Walker is a static asset. That he was the exact same prospect the previous two years, and hadn't shown any growth or increased potential. Asserting that the Caps not taking him those two years is a failure in scouting is silly, since it means that every other team failed as well.

Nathan Walker wasn't at every other teams' development camp. The Capitals brass spent an entire week with him in 2012, and had clearly scouted his USHL performances enough to determine they wanted to invite him to camp again in 2013. The Capitals knew him better than the other 29 teams in the league. If they couldn't see his potential, that's absolutely a failure in their scouting process.

Trading up for him more than likely indicates that another team was targeting him, and the Caps got wind of it. You have a problem with the Caps moving up aggressively to make sure they get their guy?

This reads like a Brooks Orpik signing defense. Same principle, though obviously of lesser proportions, here. Yes, I have a significant problem with a "get my guy at all costs" approach to management.

Not to mention we have no evidence another team was targetting him. That's pure speculation.

The success of the Walker pick won't depend on this nonsense argument that trading up into the 3rd round is some kind of egregious management. It'll depend entirely on his NHL fortunes.

Nonsense. They could have had Walker AND another potentially successful player there.

 

[Langway]

Size matters not if you don't use it. Jeff Schultz was towering but a wuss.

Walker skates, hits and hustles.

He does play with heart but he still has a way to go to be a real NHL contributor. We saw last year in the playoffs just how effective skilled smaller players can be but I don't think he has that sort of skill level. He needs to become a bit stronger and faster as well. (Of course, if he had those attributes already he probably would have gone top 60.)

True enough on size. Mainly this team doesn't use theirs effectively and it's a problem. Ward is the only forward that does in a meaningful puck battle sense. He knows how to separate players from pucks. The top line seemingly refuses to cycle or engage much overall. Their puck battle hunger has been that of a non-playoff team and it's an area Trotz must improve. It's not only team D that has to improve...the forwards have to be way more structured and engaged overall. You can't be a good possession team just by being pretty decent in one or two zones. That's a big area where I question whether Johansson remains a fit. At least Kuznetsov & Burakovsky bring a skill level and finishing ability to the table to compensate for not being all that physically competitive.

That engagement level is something they need to prioritize way more in the draft in the future. Do that along with prioritizing positional discipline and hockey IQ and maybe they'd find that elusive center (or at least have some org. center depth). Trotz will help develop but it's helpful to have more players that bring that to the table as-is.

 

[trick9]

Sabres fan here. Did anyone of the young guys the Sabres played stand out to Washington fans?

Ristolainen looked pretty good in my opinion.

 

[BobRouse]

Our puck battle issues have been present the last few years for sure. I think alot of that is on coaching and how for the last 2 coaches it was not important to have the puck (HunterHockey and..whatever Oates was doing).

Its harder to take the puck away than to keep it and as a result our possession metrics have suffered.

Part of it is personnel too. Guys like MJ and Brouwer need to do better as does Ovechkin. Here is hoping coaching changes that.

Our hitting seems down too the last year or so at least.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Apples and oranges here. Perron went from a completely unknown asset playing in midget C hockey to AAA hockey to tearing it up in the Q in the span of a couple years. He was a late bloomer that was on many teams' radar. Walker was in the Capitals' development camp in 2012. They had first hand experience with the player already. He spent the previous season in the USHL, a league that's often drafted out of (unlike AAA hockey). The Capitals brass clearly had scouted him and decided he wasn't even worth a 7th round pick.


Nathan Walker wasn't at every other teams' development camp. The Capitals brass spent an entire week with him in 2012, and had clearly scouted his USHL performances enough to determine they wanted to invite him to camp again in 2013. The Capitals knew him better than the other 29 teams in the league. If they couldn't see his potential, that's absolutely a failure in their scouting process.


This reads like a Brooks Orpik signing defense. Same principle, though obviously of lesser proportions, here. Yes, I have a significant problem with a "get my guy at all costs" approach to management.

Not to mention we have no evidence another team was targetting him. That's pure speculation.


Nonsense. They could have had Walker AND another potentially successful player there.

I see you missed my commentary on it. Your accounts are as purely speculative as anyone else's.

This smells of piling on the new GM. If that's your agenda (which is fine, I did it enough with George), then let's just admit to that and move forward.

As stated, these "assets" you are bemoaning are not high percentage plays, and the use of them is hardly worth the amount of criticism levied. Point blank.

 

[Hivemind]

I indeed did miss your post. Responses below.

Aren't you the guy/gal that keeps posting the analytics of how most post 2nd round picks don't ever have sustainable careers? You were pounding away about how good someone like Neuvirth was, since he was a 2nd rounder....and that any new player below 2nd -- statistically-- never made marks in the NHL (obviously some do, just very small percentage).

So on one hand, any player drafted 3rd and below has a tiny chance of success.....yet the Caps wasted assets in giving up late round picks to gets Walker. According to your theorems, later round picks aren't much of an asset...so is this just a chance to pile on BMac?

It's a matter of principle and management style. No, these aren't terrific assets, and the likelihood of them becoming franchise changing is slim. However, that doesn't mean they should be wasted. Flyers fans had similar gripes with Holmgren's handling of the Tomas Hyka situation, not because Hyka is a stud prospect, but because of the obvious mismanagement. While BMac/Mahoney didn't touch the Holmgrenesque levels here, the principle of the matter is the same.

It's also odd that you keep pounding on the team for drafting a guy that they "knew" from previous years. Maybe so....but was BMac running those drafts where Walker was passed up? No. Unless you were in the draft rooms for all 3 years, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions as to who decided whats, can you?

Mahoney would be the biggest constant here, as he's been the lead on Capitals drafts under both administrations. Sure, authorization for the trade was probably granted by MacLellan, but all indications have been that draft choices are Mahoney's responsibility.

You are also dismissing the growth of players in their early years. Some grow at similar clips, from year to year...others take quantum leaps in any given season.

That's absolutely true, and applies to players like Perron. However, Walker didn't exactly take a quantum leap here. He went from being a near-PPG USHL player to a depth player in the AHL. It's not like he stepped right into the AHL and tore it up. Nothing I saw thought he had increased his stock significantly. Before the draft, there was discussion on here about whether or not they draft him in the 7th round
or sign him as an undrafted free agent.

So perhaps the Caps "wasted assets", but not to the point that all the bellyaching that is happening here would suggest.

Move on.

txpd called out those who felt negaitvely about the Walker pick, so I justified my position. It's not like I went out of my way to bring this up.

 

[Dream Big]

Something about Nathan Walker I find appealing. He's a gamer.

A kid that goes to the Czech Republic at 13 years old because competative hockey in Australia is non existent. Yeah he's small but so is Marty St. Louis. He's a project for sure but inspiring if you know what I mean.

Did anyone find him the Aussie Meat pie that he missed most that they promised him?

 

[usiel]

Quick feedback from this game...

On the D side really liked Niskanen. Good stick and puck poise. Schilling seemed pretty good. Doesn't seem that fast but didn't get caught out of position.

On the forwards... Saw the Bura goal in front of me. Sick...even looked more sick on the TV. Walker is small but didn't see him really get physically overwhelmed and he laid the body on players without bouncing off them (re: perrutu). Chandler S. always in the right place on the ice though his line wasn't all that great overall.

 

[hizzoner]

Thanks

 

[Portable Mink]

Walker!