Confirmed with Link: Sabres acquire W Jimmy Vesey for a 3rd round pick in 2021

[BananaSquad]

Still need to make one more move , like Johansson would be perfect or trade for Zucker

Oloffson - Eichel - MoJo/ Zucker
Skinner - Mitts - Reinhart
Vesey - Erod - Nylander
Sheary - Larsson - Girgensons
Okposo

 

[old kummelweck]

I love ready people's hot takes on what Botterill should have paid.

 

[Chainshot]

I love ready people's hot takes on what Botterill should have paid.

Who's would those be?

 

[old kummelweck]

Who's would those be?

Two GMs negotiated a trade; an asset for a 3rd rounder. So several criticisms are at one's disposal, none of which is either GM could have gotten more or less from the two parties. What they paid was the price.

It's one thing not liking the move or thinking the asset could have been spent differently on a different deal or asset. Its a strange path of logic to litigate the two parties would have taken a different price. The two teams have been chatting about it for weeks.

 

[Chainshot]

Two GMs negotiated a trade; an asset for a 3rd rounder. So several criticisms are at one's disposal, none of which is either GM could have gotten more or less from the two parties. What they paid was the price.

It's one thing not liking the move or thinking the asset could have been spent differently on a different deal or asset. Its a strange path of logic to litigate the two parties would have taken a different price. The two teams have been chatting about it for weeks.

My point was: When you say that you enjoy people talking about price, feel free to quote who you are talking about.

 

[Paxon]

Two GMs negotiated a trade; an asset for a 3rd rounder. So several criticisms are at one's disposal, none of which is either GM could have gotten more or less from the two parties. What they paid was the price.

It's one thing not liking the move or thinking the asset could have been spent differently on a different deal or asset. Its a strange path of logic to litigate the two parties would have taken a different price. The two teams have been chatting about it for weeks.

It is not a concrete fact that he couldn't have paid less. It was a negotiation.

 

[Royal Thunder]

One of our biggest weaknesses this year was having no scoring depth in the middle six. So it's a scenario where I think Vesey can help us to remedy that situation.

 

[debaser66]

A 3rd round pick for 1 year of an underwhelming player is just too much.
It would make more sense if there was some control over the player but he will be an UFA next summer.
Even if he should work out he didn't want to sign here the last time another GM paid a 3rd round pick for him.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

A 3rd round pick for 1 year of an underwhelming player is just too much.
It would make more sense if there was some control over the player but he will be an UFA next summer.
Even if he should work out he didn't want to sign here the last time another GM paid a 3rd round pick for him.

I'm sure it's been stated earlier in this thread, but he can be signed prior to July 1 or flipped at the deadline.
If he walks next summer or if he's flipped at the deadline for anything less than a 3rd, it's poor asset management.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm sure it's been stated earlier in this thread, but he can be signed prior to July 1 or flipped at the deadline.
If he walks next summer or if he's flipped at the deadline for anything less than a 3rd, it's poor asset management.

Even if they move him at the deadline for less than a 3rd, they're basically investing a future pick for use of a player. I'm okay with that.

My issue is that he's not a good player in his own zone. I would rather have Jack and Jeff getting O-zone starts or beneficial matchups than having to shield even more of the lineup like Vesey, Sheary, and Mittelstadt. I suspect at the end of the day, this is another player who is outscored by his opposition over the course of a full season.

12-15 goals would be welcome. Not sure if that's replacing Poms or Vlad or who, but if they can get a teens total out of it, okay.

 

[Tatanka]

If this slams the door on Pommers coming back, it is a good deal.

 

[Paxon]

If this slams the door on Pommers coming back, it is a good deal.

They could've done that either way. Olofsson took Pommers' spot in my mind. Vesey then adds additional scoring depth. Now, we needed additional scoring depth, but I don't think we were going to look to Pommers for it.

 

[Aladyyn]

If this slams the door on Pommers coming back, it is a good deal.

Rather have Pominville for sure...

 

[Royal Thunder]

Rather have Pominville for sure...

Woof. Poms didn't win a race to a puck or a puck battle all season. He is totally overmatched in today's game and can't carry the puck whatsoever because he gets closed on so easily.

 

[Aladyyn]

Woof. Poms didn't win a race to a puck or a puck battle all season. He is totally overmatched in today's game and can't carry the puck whatsoever because he gets closed on so easily.

Just wait until Vesey suits up for this team...

 

[Royal Thunder]

Just wait until Vesey suits up for this team...

Im not Vesey fan but he should be able to score at least as many goals as Poms would, and he might actually add some jam and skill to the lineup instead of being 100% dependent on his linemates to create chances.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Im not Vesey fan but he should be able to score at least as many goals as Poms would, and he might actually add some jam and skill to the lineup instead of being 100% dependent on his linemates to create chances.

I dont think this is very factual, maybe score as many goals sure but jam and skill? I am also curious to see who drove play better, Poms or Vesey? I dont have the charts.

 

[joshjull]

Woof. Poms didn't win a race to a puck or a puck battle all season. He is totally overmatched in today's game and can't carry the puck whatsoever because he gets closed on so easily.

Pommer was fine and if he comes back it will probably be for peanuts.

Our jump in offense will have to come from within from 3 areas

1) guys like Mitts, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Tage, Nylander, etc growing as players and providing an offensive bump.

2) Our additions. We didn’t add much but they (Miller/Vesey) could still provide a bit. Obviously more changes could come.

3) Better coaching. Housley had player usages that basically sabotaged many players. He certainly came no where near getting the most out of that group. One that had more talent than either year Disco was here.

I have no idea if Kruger will be the answer. But if he is it will lead to a much better team on the ice in a way no player addition could possibly do. Now we wait to see what he does.

 

[Aladyyn]

I dont think this is very factual, maybe score as many goals sure but jam and skill? I am also curious to see who drove play better, Poms or Vesey? I dont have the charts.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Yeah I was pretty confident putting what I wrote before seeing numbers and graphs and this just confirms it.

 

[Royal Thunder]

It's situations like this that really make me skeptical about these fancy charts. How does he drive play? Just by being in the right spots? The dude never has the puck and refuses to go into corners to retrieve it. He is still smart and good postionally but if he can be outskated and outmuscled by every other player, how effective can he really be? Like I haven't heard rumours of any other teams being interested in him, and they all look at analytics too.

I am not an old fart disregarding analytics, I just am surprised when the eye test and analytics are totally opposed in the conclusions you can draw from them. I get that the eye test isn't a science but I wasn't imagining all the times that he was overpowered every shift.

 

[Aladyyn]

It's situations like this that really make me skeptical about these fancy charts. How does he drive play? Just by being in the right spots? The dude never has the puck and refuses to go into corners to retrieve it. He is still smart and good postionally but if he can be outskated and outmuscled by every other player, how effective can he really be? Like I haven't heard rumours of any other teams being interested in him, and they all look at analytics too.

I am not an old fart disregarding analytics, I just am surprised when the eye test and analytics are totally opposed in the conclusions you can drag from them. I get that the eye test isn't a science but I wasn't imagining all the times that he was overpowered every shift.

I'll admit that from my eye test I come to the same conclusions as you, I have no idea how he does what he does. But results are results and I won't argue with them.

 

[joshjull]

It's situations like this that really make me skeptical about these fancy charts. How does he drive play? Just by being in the right spots? The dude never has the puck and refuses to go into corners to retrieve it. He is still smart and good postionally but if he can be outskated and outmuscled by every other player, how effective can he really be? Like I haven't heard rumours of any other teams being interested in him, and they all look at analytics too.

I am not an old fart disregarding analytics, I just am surprised when the eye test and analytics are totally opposed in the conclusions you can drag from them. I get that the eye test isn't a science but I wasn't imagining all the times that he was overpowered every shift.

In this case its not fair or frankly enlightening to compare what Vesey did last season with the Rags to what Pommer did playing a large amount with Skinner/Eichel. It would heavily skew his offensive numbers. Defensively though Pommer is a better player.

Question I would have is that the best way to look at it. Vesey’s strength, like Skinner’s, is in and around the net. Something that is a very good match with how Eichel plays. Obviously Skinner is a the far superior goal scorer. But what could Vesey do in his spot with lets say Sam on the other wing. Then free up Skinner to play elsewhere unchecked by top defenders. Just something to think about.

Pommer’s success with jack comes from his intelligence as a player.

 

[Chainshot]

It's situations like this that really make me skeptical about these fancy charts. How does he drive play? Just by being in the right spots? The dude never has the puck and refuses to go into corners to retrieve it. He is still smart and good postionally but if he can be outskated and outmuscled by every other player, how effective can he really be? Like I haven't heard rumours of any other teams being interested in him, and they all look at analytics too.

I am not an old fart disregarding analytics, I just am surprised when the eye test and analytics are totally opposed in the conclusions you can draw from them. I get that the eye test isn't a science but I wasn't imagining all the times that he was overpowered every shift.

It shows that he is in the right position and that he tends to make better decisions with the puck than others, but he is very much dependant on others to both retrieve and distribute the puck.

Think back to the glory that was Cody Franson's final year stats in Buffalo - he was actually good at his role, in limited minutes as a third pairing defenseman but he was very much hindered in bigger minutes. Poms seems very similar and has since he was in Minny, where Haula as the speed guy handled breakouts and entries and distribution in the same fashion Eichel did with him. It's clear he is too slow to keep up and his fancy stats are still good. It's not just a plug and play thing.

 

[Samsonite23]

Not really a fan of Vesey. But I wouldn't mind this trade if he was under team control....but he's not.