Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[Jame]

Guy got a first, fourth, and O'Regan for Kane. And before you throw in the conditional first, I didn't see Carolina getting a conditional first from us if Skinner resigns.

Unless Skinner gets hurt or somehow the wheels fall off at 26, there is no way he doesn't return more than for what we got for Kane if we trade him at the deadline. He'll be in a top six role with either Eichel, Mittelstadt, or Reinhart at center and he'll be on the power play.

But Debbie Downer gotta Debbie Down.

I bet the market for renting Skinner for the playoffs, will be significantly weaker than Kane's market was.... and that's before you factor in that Skinner has a NMC clause to control/limit that market.

Skinner's well known defensive deficiencies will scare off a lot of GMs who see those goals against and know they can end your post season.

 

[enthusiast]

If he plays up to his standard level and the Sabres choose to trade him he'll return a 1st. NHL gms desperate to make the playoffs/win a round to save their jobs don't hem, haw, and hyperfocus like online posters

 

[Jame]

If he plays up to his standard level and the Sabres choose to trade him he'll return a 1st. NHL gms desperate to make the playoffs/win a round to save their jobs don't hem, haw, and hyperfocus like online posters

Cool guess.

Care to explain why he didn't return a 1st in the offseason?

Did Vanek return a 1st for the Islanders at the deadline? Or were GMs to hyperfocused on how lazy his game was?

 

[sabremike]

Cool guess.

Care to explain why he didn't return a 1st in the offseason?

Did Vanek return a 1st for the Islanders at the deadline? Or were GMs to hyperfocused on how lazy his game was?

FWIW there is a rumor I've seen that (similar to the Max Pac one) the Isles were lining up a deal to give up one of their two picks for Skinner but other GM's being terrible and allowing both Whalstrom and Dobson to fall into their laps caused them to pull the plug on the idea.

 

[enthusiast]

clearly my valuation of the market didn't take into account a trade five years ago wherein a different player in a different league meta returned a second round pick and a decent prospect instad of a first round pick

 

[Dingo44]

I bet the market for renting Skinner for the playoffs, will be significantly weaker than Kane's market was.... and that's before you factor in that Skinner has a NMC clause to control/limit that market.

Skinner's well known defensive deficiencies will scare off a lot of GMs who see those goals against and know they can end your post season.

Right or wrong, I'll put Skinner's defensive deficiencies against Kane's perceived locker room and personal issues. I'm also betting on Skinner really producing all season by the TDL.

Of course the NMC comes into it, but Skinner who would probably love to play in the playoffs may wave for a couple of months on a real contender.

Though again, my preference is that he fits in so well he stays and we resign him before July 1, 2019.

 

[valet]

I bet the market for renting Skinner for the playoffs, will be significantly weaker than Kane's market was.... and that's before you factor in that Skinner has a NMC clause to control/limit that market.

Skinner's well known defensive deficiencies will scare off a lot of GMs who see those goals against and know they can end your post season.

I agree w this, Kane is better than Skinner on many levels

 

[Royal Thunder]

That last part is both interesting and worries me. Of the prospects we could've gotten back from them he was on paper the worst and the one they were most willing to give up by far. The idea of a GM feeling he is smarter than everybody in the room and can see something nobody else can could be a good thing if he is right, but if he is wrong and outsmarted himself that is very bad. I just have very bad flashbacks to when the Mets thought they had a guaranteed way to fix Octavio Zambrano and gave up a ton to acquire him and it ended up being a disaster. Time will tell I guess.

When you say "of the prospects we could have gotten back from St Louis, Thompson was on paper the worst", which other prospects are you talking about that we could have gotten? Because no way was Armstrong gonna send us Thomas, Kyrou, or Dunn.

 

[Royal Thunder]

I agree w this, Kane is better than Skinner on many levels

Seriously??? Skinner>>Kane as a scoring winger. Kane is fast and physical but has tunnel vision. He doesn't have nearly the hands or shot that skinner possesses.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I don't think that's accurate. Not to the extent that he preferred Thompson over another given prospect.

We won't know if Botterill preferred another prospect but their GM made it sound like Thompson was the player they wanted.

This was the quote I was talking about. He also said he was happy to protect Thomas, Kyrou, and Dunn. So who knows.


“I had been working with Buffalo for some time on a potential trade, and it fell apart this morning,” Armstrong said later. “We were able to pick it up after that, and you know, add and subtract some pieces that made everyone comfortable in the end, and it was done tonight.
“Buffalo did a really good job of maintaining their desire for Tage and the picks, then you have to do the math equation to make it work. Unfortunately we had to part with some players we respect highly. But in a cap system, you have to do things that are uncomfortable.”

 

[sabremike]

When you say "of the prospects we could have gotten back from St Louis, Thompson was on paper the worst", which other prospects are you talking about that we could have gotten? Because no way was Armstrong gonna send us Thomas, Kyrou, or Dunn.

There were (IIRC) 2 other guys who were rated higher than Thompson that could've been discussed. I'd go on about just how much I hate this trade but it would just be pummeling an equine cadaver at this point so I'll pass

 

[Dingo44]

There were (IIRC) 2 other guys who were rated higher than Thompson that could've been discussed. I'd go on about just how much I hate this trade but it would just be pummeling an equine cadaver at this point so I'll pass

DUDE! They are going to lock this one too...

 

[Jame]

“I had been working with Buffalo for some time on a potential trade, and it fell apart this morning,” Armstrong said later. “We were able to pick it up after that, and you know, add and subtract some pieces that made everyone comfortable in the end, and it was done tonight.

Armstrong played Botterill

 

[Jame]

Right or wrong, I'll put Skinner's defensive deficiencies against Kane's perceived locker room and personal issues. I'm also betting on Skinner really producing all season by the TDL.

Of course the NMC comes into it, but Skinner who would probably love to play in the playoffs may wave for a couple of months on a real contender.

Though again, my preference is that he fits in so well he stays and we resign him before July 1, 2019.

I don’t think Kane’s “personal” issues would be viewed in a “this guys effort could lose us a game”, the way skinner can be viewed.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Tbh, you’re both right.

The bottom can fall out of the market for firmly one-way goalscorers, but I think Kane’s reputation as a party animal and bad teammate was worse.

 

[Dingo44]

I don’t think Kane’s “personal” issues would be viewed in a “this guys effort could lose us a game”, the way skinner can be viewed.

Hey - I liked Kaner. I'm just going by perception. But I'm not in the meetings in the other team's offices.

If Skinner's effort or defense was so bad then he wouldn't be in the NHL, no matter how much skill he has. It's fine to point out his drawbacks along with his strengths, but it's not like he's some lazy guy hanging around the red line waiting for a pass while his teammates are scrambling for their lives in the D zone.

I think the GM would be more thinking "this guy's scoring ability can win us a game".

 

[Jame]

If Skinner's effort or defense was so bad then he wouldn't be in the NHL, no matter how much skill he has.

That’s patently wrong. Thomas Vanek is still around.

 

[Dingo44]

That’s patently wrong. Thomas Vanek is still around.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Armstrong played Botterill

We'll see. Tough for Armstrong to lose that trade.

 

[Dahlin 2 Eichel]

This whiny thing is weird. What was ROR?

A whiny little bitch

 

[Lloydchristmas138]

I'd be pretty surprised if Skinner gets moved at the deadline, I think Botts was willing to re-sign him at his value and thats why he traded 4 assets for him. I'd rather have Pu+2nd, 3rd than a late 1st anyways. I see Botterill signing (or at least try) Skinner for similar to what Kane got from SJ.

 

[sabrebuild]

Right or wrong, I'll put Skinner's defensive deficiencies against Kane's perceived locker room and personal issues. I'm also betting on Skinner really producing all season by the TDL.

Of course the NMC comes into it, but Skinner who would probably love to play in the playoffs may wave for a couple of months on a real contender.

Though again, my preference is that he fits in so well he stays and we resign him before July 1, 2019.

Didn’t Kane produce like a stud most of the year? I think it would be a win if Skinner can keep up with Kane’s pace from last year.

 

[Jame]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

We can agree that your statement isn't supported with any evidence... and mine is

 

[Dreakon13]

Didn’t Kane produce like a stud most of the year? I think it would be a win if Skinner can keep up with Kane’s pace from last year.

He went on a major cold streak for about 1-2 months leading up to the trade deadline.

 

[valet]

Seriously??? Skinner>>Kane as a scoring winger. Kane is fast and physical but has tunnel vision. He doesn't have nearly the hands or shot that skinner possesses.

Kane plays better d, is much more physical, wins more 1v1 battles, can pk, fight, and is in the same tier of goal scorer that Skinner is, the list is long...

I'm not saying that Kane is as good of a fit as Skinner for our roster, or that he doesn't have his flaws, but he is the superior player... look at the return he got at rental price vs the return Skinner got with a NMC. It's hard to deny