Ryan Stone
- Thread starter Chelios
- Start date
- Status
Was very highly rated as a potential scorer when he came to major junior, but has since become more of a scrappy two way player. Right now he is kind of stuck in between, he doesn't put up the points to be a scorer and he is undersized to be a physical player. Unless he does something significant this season, the prognosis is bleak.
clefty
Retrovertigo
db23 said:
Whoa, time out!
Undersized? He's 6"1 235lbs according to the Wheat Kings website. He had 125 PIMs in 50 games last season.
Doesn't put up the points? He had over a ppg. last season (58 points in 50 games). I don't know who you're thinking of, but it sure isn't Ryan Stone.
The only problem is his skating. But his physicality and scoring is excellent.
V for Voodoo
Registered User
I wouldn't say his scoring is excellent. I don't think he has the type of offensive skills that will translate into scoring success at the NHL level. I think he will be a pretty similar player to Jason Wiemer, who actually had better offensive production when he was in the Dub.
If he is 235, he must have put on 40 pounds in the last year. He was under 200 pounds when he was drafted in 2003. Getting a point a game as a 19 year old in the CHL is not going to get you to the NHL as an offensive threat.
clefty
Retrovertigo
Eh, 205lbs, sorry.
The WHL scoring leader (Tyler Redenbach) had only 1.47 ppg. Stone had 1.16ppg, this from a guy you said was a scrappy two-way player. And its not like the WHL is such a high scoring league, I'm not sure what else he's expected to do.
The WHL scoring leader (Tyler Redenbach) had only 1.47 ppg. Stone had 1.16ppg, this from a guy you said was a scrappy two-way player. And its not like the WHL is such a high scoring league, I'm not sure what else he's expected to do.
Last edited:
clefty
Retrovertigo
Voodoo said:
Excellent, good, great, fine, whatever. The adjective I used wasn't the point.
I didn't say he would be a scorer in the NHL. What I did say is that he does put up the offense to suggest he potentially could be.
ADD: He had 62 points in 61 games (according to his teams site) and 58 points in 50 games on hockeydb.com and the WHL site. I don't know which one is correct, I'm assuming 58pts in 50g is right.
Hossa
Registered User
clefty said:
His 62 points in 61 games are the combined regular season and playoff total.
He put up 58 points in 50 games in the regular season and 4 points (1 goal) in 11 playoff games.
Chelios said:
What I'd describe as a top line enforcer. Enough skill and defensive awareness and physical presence/fighting skills to be on your top 2 lines. But he'd get creamed against a true heavy weight and would likely be 3rd/4th liner if it wasn't for the toughness.
Stone had a tonne of promise as a 16 year old, but injuries in both his 17 and 18 year old season have stolen some of the promise (only 50 and 54 games in last two seasons - broken orbital bone from a fight last year cost him a large chunk of the season). It is time for him to step up this coming season and prove he is a real star and prove he deserves to be the captain of the Wheat Kings. He also needs to be much more disciplined as he tends to take a lot of stupid penalties.
Need to be careful evaluating him based on points per game as he plays on a line with Eric Fehr and that alone should boost his points tremendously. These two guys should both be in the top ten in WHL scoring this coming year (if not both challenging for the overall scoring title).
Need to be careful evaluating him based on points per game as he plays on a line with Eric Fehr and that alone should boost his points tremendously. These two guys should both be in the top ten in WHL scoring this coming year (if not both challenging for the overall scoring title).
"... he is undersized to be a physical player."
+ "Undersized? He's 6"1 235lbs"
+ "If he is 235, he must have put on 40 pounds in the last year. He was under 200 pounds when he was drafted in 2003"
= 6'1, 195 in your draft year is undersized now?
db23 is attempting to transfer "Moneyball" principles to hockey. It would be interesting to see if this is possible. I think it would be more difficult than baseball because hockey is more of a team sport. Players on the Devils/Wild will not get as many points as they could on offense-first teams. Also in hockey, a player must balance their offensive and defensive responsibilities. A player can't concentrate solely on offense in today's game. Even superstars such as Kovalchuk are being asked to be somewhat responsible defensively. In baseball, a player could theoretically hit 40 home runs and still be a Gold Glover on the field. Moneyball teams do not value defensive skill, they just try to fit offensive players in where they can. (e.g. Oakland turning Hatteberg into a 1B) Hockey teams cannot afford to do this, so players are trained to give up some offensive potential for a more well-rounded game at the minor league and NHL level.
Outside factors such as this have an effect on a player's stats, his true offensive potential may not be reflected in the scoresheet. A lot of offensive statistics (G, A, +/-, etc.) are dependent on other teammates, goalies for both teams, systems for both teams (trap/defensive vs. offensive), line combinations/roles which are at the coach's discretion, etc.
+ "Undersized? He's 6"1 235lbs"
+ "If he is 235, he must have put on 40 pounds in the last year. He was under 200 pounds when he was drafted in 2003"
= 6'1, 195 in your draft year is undersized now?
db23 is attempting to transfer "Moneyball" principles to hockey. It would be interesting to see if this is possible. I think it would be more difficult than baseball because hockey is more of a team sport. Players on the Devils/Wild will not get as many points as they could on offense-first teams. Also in hockey, a player must balance their offensive and defensive responsibilities. A player can't concentrate solely on offense in today's game. Even superstars such as Kovalchuk are being asked to be somewhat responsible defensively. In baseball, a player could theoretically hit 40 home runs and still be a Gold Glover on the field. Moneyball teams do not value defensive skill, they just try to fit offensive players in where they can. (e.g. Oakland turning Hatteberg into a 1B) Hockey teams cannot afford to do this, so players are trained to give up some offensive potential for a more well-rounded game at the minor league and NHL level.
Outside factors such as this have an effect on a player's stats, his true offensive potential may not be reflected in the scoresheet. A lot of offensive statistics (G, A, +/-, etc.) are dependent on other teammates, goalies for both teams, systems for both teams (trap/defensive vs. offensive), line combinations/roles which are at the coach's discretion, etc.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
I personally watch Ryan Stone play 40+ games a year as a wheat king season ticket holder and my input on Stone is that he is a very gritty 2 way player....he wont be a big scorer in the nhl but if i were to compare him to a player in todays nhl it would have to be mike peca.....he hits very hard for his size, size that is close to 6'1'' 200lbs give or take....and he plays with an incredible amount of emotion. At the junior level he is an impact player who makes his team better every time he plays....he likley wont put up more then 40 points in the nhl however.
As for him playing with Eric Fehr and that possibly making him a better player....well of course it does help him, but truly the 2 feed off of each other and make each other way way better everytime that they are out on the ice together.
As far as him being a scrapper in the nhl, it just will not happen....he is tough for his size but he wont be a fighter and even now in junior after the broken hand from a fight 2 years ago and orbital bone this year he has been told to tone it down in that department.
He however is a great leader and a great team player...he is the type of player everyone wants to play beside but not against...he can be an agitator and get under peoples skin....he sometimes takes penalties that are uncalled for but that is going to happen with any player who plays with the tenacity he does.
Look for him to be on canada's junior team this year and impress with his very strong 2 way game.
As for him playing with Eric Fehr and that possibly making him a better player....well of course it does help him, but truly the 2 feed off of each other and make each other way way better everytime that they are out on the ice together.
As far as him being a scrapper in the nhl, it just will not happen....he is tough for his size but he wont be a fighter and even now in junior after the broken hand from a fight 2 years ago and orbital bone this year he has been told to tone it down in that department.
He however is a great leader and a great team player...he is the type of player everyone wants to play beside but not against...he can be an agitator and get under peoples skin....he sometimes takes penalties that are uncalled for but that is going to happen with any player who plays with the tenacity he does.
Look for him to be on canada's junior team this year and impress with his very strong 2 way game.
I'm not going to go check it out, but I am willing to bet that the average size of the first round draftees this year is more than 6-1, 195 pounds. Stone can play a "physical" game, but he isn't going to scare anyone with it, and as someone mentioned it will most likely send him to the infirmary more often than not. Mike Peca is smaller than that, but he misses a lot of time with his style and he was a 100 + point scorer as a junior as well.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
db23 said:
Stone does play a physical game there are no if's ands or buts about it....he is involved in the physical side of the game every time he steps on the ice. If you want to view this as a bad thing that is fine....however that is what coaches, scouts, fans, teammates love most about him....is that he will go all out and he will sacrafice the body.....as for if he is going to scare anyone with it, he does make people keep their heads up because he will level them with a pretty nice body check(the kid can hit wether hes 6'1 195 is not a problem he can flat out hit)
Not only will he do that he is a big time team player and he sticks up for his teammates under any circumstance. Sure it may get him in more scraps that are necesary but hes toning that down and turning more to just a strong physical game now then a fighting game.
As for peca having seasons as a 100+ point getter in junior remember that stone has 2 possible years of junior left and that hes averaged right around or above a point a game so far as a 17 and an 18 year old player and now that he will very likely be at or above 100 points this year and also next if he were to play junior for both.
Any way you look at it, Stone is a "tweener". He isn't big enough to make the NHL based on his physical game (at least not on a regular basis), and he doesn't have the hands to be a skill player. That is why Fehr is regarded as a top prospect and Stone isn't. No questioning Stone's heart or work ethic, but it is going to be very tough for him to be an NHL regular.
Stone
I would compare Stone to Brenden Morrow. A hard working player who can score some, like Morrow he will pay the price to get his goals. Morrow had better junior numbers but Stones numbers would have been better if he hadn't been injuried as often.
I would compare Stone to Brenden Morrow. A hard working player who can score some, like Morrow he will pay the price to get his goals. Morrow had better junior numbers but Stones numbers would have been better if he hadn't been injuried as often.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
MBJets said:
I would also compare him to brenden morrow thats another player he is kind of like....stone is not going to be a first line player or a allstar in the nhl but he has all the tools to be a real solid 2 way 2nd-3rd line player who could score 20 a year and put up about the same assists
Average weight of 2004 1st round forwards - 195.1
Average weight of 2003 1st round forwards - 195.5 (Stone's draft year)
Stone - listed as 6'1, 199 on NHL.com 2003 Draft Archive
Average weight of 2003 1st round forwards - 195.5 (Stone's draft year)
Stone - listed as 6'1, 199 on NHL.com 2003 Draft Archive
I never said he wasn't a second rounder? Although he was the second pick and first forward taken in the second round. The topic had changed to the average size of first rounders and I had provided some corresponding numbers. Since the topic was originally about Stone, I included the first round forwards in his draft year as well.
Ratcine > Stone was a second rounder.
db23 > I'm not going to go check it out, but I am willing to bet that the average size of the first round draftees this year is more than 6-1, 195 pounds.
waiverdraft33 >
Average weight of 2004 1st round forwards - 195.1
Average weight of 2003 1st round forwards - 195.5 (Stone's draft year)
Stone - listed as 6'1, 199 on NHL.com 2003 Draft Archive
Ratcine > Stone was a second rounder.
db23 > I'm not going to go check it out, but I am willing to bet that the average size of the first round draftees this year is more than 6-1, 195 pounds.
waiverdraft33 >
Average weight of 2004 1st round forwards - 195.1
Average weight of 2003 1st round forwards - 195.5 (Stone's draft year)
Stone - listed as 6'1, 199 on NHL.com 2003 Draft Archive
- Status
