Player Discussion: Ryan Pulock Discussion Part II

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't think he's clearly better than anyone on the list. There might be a debate to be had about some, especially considering the young guys without much of a resume, but otherwise it's a pretty decent list.

I would have included Provorov, Werenski, Morrissey in my top 16, but overall it is not a bad list. I do think Pulock belongs. I think it's time D men get more recognition for their 2 way play than just the flash. Cheers man.

Pulock is criminally underrated, but that's fine. For those of us that watch him, we know how good he is. Pelech is even more underrated too.

That pairing is the foundation of the defense. Until Dobson can ascend into the stud that we expect, Pulock is the alpha and anchor of the defense group.

Yeah PW, typical Islamder. More team than Individual. Under the radar. Speaking Radar, I thought it would be nice to pay homage to Radar in my avatar. Al Arbour, the great man himself.

 

[Costigan77]

I would have included Provorov, Werenski, Morrissey in my top 16, but overall it is not a bad list. I do think Pulock belongs. I think it's time D men get more recognition for their 2 way play than just the flash. Cheers man.

Yeah PW, typical Islamder. More team than Individual. Under the radar. Speaking Radar, I thought it would be nice to pay homage to Radar in my avatar. Al Arbour, the great man himself.

I thought you were saying Radar the dog

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I thought you were saying Radar the dog

I don't know why I was thinking about Arbour the other day. When Hrudy called him a 2nd father, I got a bit sentimental, I let my guard down. No more softie emotional avatars after Radar. That's it.

 

[Beacon Isles]

So Jonas Brodin just signed a 7 yr, $42M extension. He's 27 yrs old i think, top 4 defenseman, plays the left side, 20 mins a night, 28 points in 2019-20. So $6M AAV.

Does that seem to be a rough starting point for a deal for Pulock? Being younger, a few more points per season, and a RD, does Pulock get $6.5-7M AAV, over a longer term deal like 7 years?

Im guessing $6M a year for Pulock, and any lower is a win for the team. I'd love to see $5-5.5M

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

So Jonas Brodin just signed a 7 yr, $42M extension. He's 27 yrs old i think, top 4 defenseman, plays the left side, 20 mins a night, 28 points in 2019-20. So $6M AAV.

Does that seem to be a rough starting point for a deal for Pulock? Being younger, a few more points per season, and a RD, does Pulock get $6.5-7M AAV, over a longer term deal like 7 years?

Give that money to Pulock NOW and I ask you this: How the HELL are we signing both Barzal and Toews as well???

 

[Beacon Isles]

Give that money to Pulock NOW and I ask you this: How the HELL are we signing both Barzal and Toews as well???

You would have to move some contracts. Or you go for a shorter bridge deal for less AAV, which might cost more in the long run.

 

[dlawong]

Give that money to Pulock NOW and I ask you this: How the HELL are we signing both Barzal and Toews as well???

Does not UFA typically gets more unless you are talking elite young player? Pulock is very good but is he truly elite? I think it will depend on the term too. Shorter-term means more, longer-term means less. I would probably do 5.5 M or 6M but not more. Hammer was really good back then when Isles resing him as an RFA and the contract should be comparable with the cap increase in mind unless if you think Pulock is that much better than a healthy Hammer.

Definitely they will need to move one or two none core contracts this summer to free up some cap space. Leddy needs to go and maybe one of Clutterbuck and Cizikas (which I personally will hate). Because no one else takes up some cap space can be traded right? JB's contract will be really hard to move due to his age and recent injury history & Ladd will be even harder. By the way, will there be any buy-out option available, and if not this year, how about next? Is Snow still costing this team with the bad contracts he dished out?

 

[Bronson]

So Jonas Brodin just signed a 7 yr, $42M extension. He's 27 yrs old i think, top 4 defenseman, plays the left side, 20 mins a night, 28 points in 2019-20. So $6M AAV.

Does that seem to be a rough starting point for a deal for Pulock? Being younger, a few more points per season, and a RD, does Pulock get $6.5-7M AAV, over a longer term deal like 7 years?

Im guessing $6M a year for Pulock, and any lower is a win for the team. I'd love to see $5-5.5M

Brodin is the Pelech of the west. He plays an unassuming but very effective defensive game so he's actually Minnesota's no 1 defenseman in all situations but the powerplay.

 

[doublechili]

What are the rules again for expansion? I may be wrong but I think you can either protect 8 skaters and a goalie or 3D, 7F and a goalie? So if you only need to protect 3 defensemen you can protect 10 skaters instead of 8. If they want to protect Pulock, Pelech, Mayfield and Toews that means they can only protect 4 forwards.

Anyway, Lou and his staff are going to be giving this some thought re: new contracts and as they decide who to keep and who to move.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Those are exactly the expansion rules. If you want to protect 4 D you can only protect 4 F. 3 D lets you protect more.

 

[PK Cronin]

Those are exactly the expansion rules. If you want to protect 4 D you can only protect 4 F. 3 D lets you protect more.

Well, it's 8 skaters, I don't think there's a limit on either position. In theory a team could protect 8 forwards I think or 8 defenseman, or any combination that totals 8.

The big reason why I'd protect Mayfield is because of the contract. I'd want to force Seattle to take someone with a larger contract, no matter who they are. It's an easier way to get rid of salary if we need to. Pulock, Pelech, Toews, Mayfield, Barzal, Beauvillier, Nelson, Pageau, and let them pick from what's left. If they take someone like Bailey, Eberle, or Lee, it might sting, but it moves a bunch of money out and that can be useful. We'll see what kind of deals are struck prior to then though because we already have to make some moves. Maybe whatever moves are made will help address the expansion draft too.

 

[dlawong]

Well, it's 8 skaters, I don't think there's a limit on either position. In theory a team could protect 8 forwards I think or 8 defenseman, or any combination that totals 8.

The big reason why I'd protect Mayfield is because of the contract. I'd want to force Seattle to take someone with a larger contract, no matter who they are. It's an easier way to get rid of salary if we need to. Pulock, Pelech, Toews, Mayfield, Barzal, Beauvillier, Nelson, Pageau, and let them pick from what's left. If they take someone like Bailey, Eberle, or Lee, it might sting, but it moves a bunch of money out and that can be useful. We'll see what kind of deals are struck prior to then though because we already have to make some moves. Maybe whatever moves are made will help address the expansion draft too.

Toews only depends on how much he resigned for. If cheap, then yes. I get that Pulock has more upside as he is younger and Pelech is a must keep and Mayfield (if not traded for offensive help) then will be protected because his contract value is very good and if Seattle takes him they may flip that contract for something else in another package deal possibly going to a team like Toronto or a low budget team like Arizona, Florida, Sens or Carolina.

 

[dlawong]

Most teams will do the 7-3, not 4-4.

 

[The Real JT]

Well, it's 8 skaters, I don't think there's a limit on either position. In theory a team could protect 8 forwards I think or 8 defenseman, or any combination that totals 8.

The big reason why I'd protect Mayfield is because of the contract. I'd want to force Seattle to take someone with a larger contract, no matter who they are. It's an easier way to get rid of salary if we need to. Pulock, Pelech, Toews, Mayfield, Barzal, Beauvillier, Nelson, Pageau, and let them pick from what's left. If they take someone like Bailey, Eberle, or Lee, it might sting, but it moves a bunch of money out and that can be useful. We'll see what kind of deals are struck prior to then though because we already have to make some moves. Maybe whatever moves are made will help address the expansion draft too.

Hard to disagree.

So much time before the final decision needs to be made and so many variables can and will change. That includes anything from a surprise breakout performance, underperformance, injury and/or trade for a key piece that needs to be protected.

Of course, we'll be beating this topic till it's dead in a week or two from now.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Well, it's 8 skaters, I don't think there's a limit on either position. In theory a team could protect 8 forwards I think or 8 defenseman, or any combination that totals 8.

The big reason why I'd protect Mayfield is because of the contract. I'd want to force Seattle to take someone with a larger contract, no matter who they are. It's an easier way to get rid of salary if we need to. Pulock, Pelech, Toews, Mayfield, Barzal, Beauvillier, Nelson, Pageau, and let them pick from what's left. If they take someone like Bailey, Eberle, or Lee, it might sting, but it moves a bunch of money out and that can be useful. We'll see what kind of deals are struck prior to then though because we already have to make some moves. Maybe whatever moves are made will help address the expansion draft too.

the 8 you list would be my 8. Protect Def and Centers primarily. It will suck to lose someone but it would be a bigger contract going to Seattle.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Most teams will do the 7-3, not 4-4.

I looked up the numbers for another thread and you are correct, last expansions the majority went 7-3. But I believe if I remember correctly, the Isles were one of the ones that went 4-4 with the vegas expansion.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

the 8 you list would be my 8. Protect Def and Centers primarily. It will suck to lose someone but it would be a bigger contract going to Seattle.

I predict those will be the 8 we protect and the Kraks will pass on our leftovers

 

[dlawong]

If Isles have trouble resigning Pulock after RFA deal done with Barzal, can Isles try to trade him for Boeser from Vancouver as I believe RW Boeser will fit really well with 13 and LW Hughes will be perfect with Pulock (who kind of resemble the young Tanav without the top end speed) of win-win for both teams? Isles will have to move a bit salary out so they can resign Boeser and to entice the deal may be an RW prospect will have to go back (Bellows or Wahlstrom) the other way.

Why do this, Boeser is a USA born player with a great character and Isles already have two players from his hometown to help him to settle on Long Island. His style will go quite well with Barzal because he has a more shooter mentality and can help solve Isles's issue on PP & yes he does practice in the summer sometimes with Nelson. Yes, Isles will lose a step in D but they can make a deal moving a forward to get a D to replace Pulock. This is only assuming that Isles may have trouble resigning Pulock and that he is holding out. I think Vancouver may have some good D prospect Isles can consider coming back (LD preferred).

Either way, Leddy or BJ must be moved before or at the draft to unload some salary.

Isles can also do: Ebs + Pulock to Vancouver for Boeser plus a 2020 2nd round pick.

 

[dlawong]

If Isles have trouble resigning Pulock after RFA deal done with Barzal, can Isles try to trade him for Boeser from Vancouver as I believe RW Boeser will fit really well with 13 and LW Hughes will be perfect with Pulock (who kind of resemble the young Tanav without the top end speed) of win-win for both teams? Isles will have to move a bit salary out so they can resign Boeser and to entice the deal may be an RW prospect will have to go back (Bellows or Wahlstrom) the other way.

Why do this, Boeser is a USA born player with a great character and Isles already have two players from his hometown to help him to settle on Long Island. His style will go quite well with Barzal because he has a more shooter mentality and can help solve Isles's issue on PP & yes he does practice in the summer sometimes with Nelson. Yes, Isles will lose a step in D but they can make a deal moving a forward to get a D to replace Pulock. This is only assuming that Isles may have trouble resigning Pulock and that he is holding out. I think Vancouver may have some good D prospect Isles can consider coming back (LD preferred).

Either way, Leddy or BJ must be moved before or at the draft to unload some salary.

Isles can also do: Ebs + Pulock to Vancouver for Boeser plus a 2020 2nd round pick.

Ebs has historically played well against Vancouver for some reason

 

[PK Cronin]

If Isles have trouble resigning Pulock after RFA deal done with Barzal, can Isles try to trade him for Boeser from Vancouver as I believe RW Boeser will fit really well with 13 and LW Hughes will be perfect with Pulock (who kind of resemble the young Tanav without the top end speed) of win-win for both teams? Isles will have to move a bit salary out so they can resign Boeser and to entice the deal may be an RW prospect will have to go back (Bellows or Wahlstrom) the other way.

Why do this, Boeser is a USA born player with a great character and Isles already have two players from his hometown to help him to settle on Long Island. His style will go quite well with Barzal because he has a more shooter mentality and can help solve Isles's issue on PP & yes he does practice in the summer sometimes with Nelson. Yes, Isles will lose a step in D but they can make a deal moving a forward to get a D to replace Pulock. This is only assuming that Isles may have trouble resigning Pulock and that he is holding out. I think Vancouver may have some good D prospect Isles can consider coming back (LD preferred).

Either way, Leddy or BJ must be moved before or at the draft to unload some salary.

Isles can also do: Ebs + Pulock to Vancouver for Boeser plus a 2020 2nd round pick.

Eberle has a full NTC this off-season. He's going nowhere.

 

[Isles727]

Eberle has a full NTC this off-season. He's going nowhere.

You can work around NTC.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Does not UFA typically gets more unless you are talking elite young player? Pulock is very good but is he truly elite? I think it will depend on the term too. Shorter-term means more, longer-term means less. I would probably do 5.5 M or 6M but not more. Hammer was really good back then when Isles resing him as an RFA and the contract should be comparable with the cap increase in mind unless if you think Pulock is that much better than a healthy Hammer.

Definitely they will need to move one or two none core contracts this summer to free up some cap space. Leddy needs to go and maybe one of Clutterbuck and Cizikas (which I personally will hate). Because no one else takes up some cap space can be traded right? JB's contract will be really hard to move due to his age and recent injury history & Ladd will be even harder. By the way, will there be any buy-out option available, and if not this year, how about next? Is Snow still costing this team with the bad contracts he dished out?

We're in a situation where as things are now, Lou will have just under 9 M to use to re-sign Pulock, Barzal, and Toews.

Naturally, if he can move other contracts, he'll have more to play with and we are ALL assuming he's going to need more to play with to get all three signed.

But the market is terrible. I've highlighted it in other posts, but I'll point it out again.

The stagnant cap means that roughly a 3rd of the league is at or above the cap as is. They all have work to do.
Another 3rd of the league has space to maybe re-sign its own valuable RFAs.
Half the remaining clubs have space for 1-2 upgrade UFAs and that's it.
The few teams remaining do indeed have roster space "to sell". Ironically, those are basically also the bottom-feeders that are heading into the draft with 10+ picks as things are. But they can hold the many, many sellers to the ransom of their choice and again, some teams around the league have to downsize, because they're already slightly over the cap.

I personally think we're gonna see the market flooded a bit. I think many teams will cut loose some even desirable RFAs just to get some breathing room and re-organize a bit.

We all need to understand that the entire Covid episode has led to HUGE losses in money and this offseason is where we're going to see just what impact that has.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Wow, just imagine.

The Stanley Cup is going to last until at least the first week of October, right?

Then the NHL draft will be conducted on the 6th and 7th.

Then the free agency market opens up on the 9th (right?).

Then the teams basically meet up for camp at the beginning of November, meaning any players switching teams have like just a few days to set up shop in the new area.

The compactness of this offseason basically means that every GM has several plans in place and will need to be flipping them around at a moment's notice.

Offseason overdrive coming up.

 

[PK Cronin]

You can work around NTC.

If he doesn't want to go anywhere then he won't go. These scenarios where he's going to waive his NTC to go to a bubble team instead of sitting put on a team that he just signed with and that went to the ECF is just fantasy. This isn't Andrew Ladd trying to resurrect his career, it's a guy who is playing top line minutes and has no incentive to leave.

 

[dlawong]

Actually Pulock looked good in this game so yes try to keep him. Do not trade Dobson what so ever.