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Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling Part 4 (No MB talk)

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Runner77

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BaseballCoach said:
Maybe, possibly, hopefully.....that's not good enough.

FACT: We already have 3 NHL calibre centres that are 25 and under.

FACT: We do not have 2 of the top 4 D we need.

CONCLUSION: I'm ok with trading a great prospect that would just REPLACE one of our Cs for player that would improve our LD position now AND for several more years.
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I can't subscribe to that notion. It's taken us 25 years to be able to roster players who can be developed into NHL top 6 centers. I would like to see what we really have on hand before lunging into trades involving centers. And I certainly would not be trading away any centers at this point.

We haven't been able to harvest quality centers for a reason -- it's the toughest position to fill in hockey. We can find LDs much easier. We should be able to nab some without having to sacrifice any centers.
 
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BaseballCoach

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Runner77 said:
I can't subscribe to that notion. It's taken us 25 years to be able to roster players who can be developed into NHL top 6 centers. I would like to see what we really have on hand before lunging into trades involving centers. And I certainly would not be trading away any centers at this point.

We haven't been able to harvest quality centers for a reason -- it's the toughest position to fill in hockey. We can find LDs much easier. We should be able to nab some without having to sacrifice any centers.
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Just trying to gauge the strength of your viewpoint: would you trade Poehling for Rasmus Dahlin? If yes, how much lower is still good enough? Would you trade Poehling for Shea Theodore? What about Ivan Provorov? Shayne Gostisbehere?

I'm not talking Muzzin here. And I don't actually believe that Dahlin or Theodore would be available for Poehling anyway. My point is simply that you always listen to see if you can improve your team.
 
Goldenhands

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Runner77 said:
I can't subscribe to that notion. It's taken us 25 years to be able to roster players who can be developed into NHL top 6 centers. I would like to see what we really have on hand before lunging into trades involving centers. And I certainly would not be trading away any centers at this point.

We haven't been able to harvest quality centers for a reason -- it's the toughest position to fill in hockey. We can find LDs much easier. We should be able to nab some without having to sacrifice any centers.
Click to expand...
This this and this... And while Domi is doing fine down the middle this season, I much more foresee him on the wing in the future... Poehling is going to end up as a better offensive contributor than Danault anyway so if Baseballcoach really want to trade one, trade Danault not Poehling!
 
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BaseballCoach

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Goldenhands said:
This this and this... And while Domi is doing fine down the middle this season, I much more foresee him on the wing in the future... Poehling is going to end up as a better offensive contributor than Danault anyway so if Baseballcoach really want to trade one, trade Danault not Poehling!
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No problem, once Poehling is ready.
 

BaseballCoach

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Redux91 said:
Super fair question.., because buffalo's just DYING to offload him... make more sense then that man..
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Why are you asking ME to make more sense when the person to whom I'm responding is the one that made the extreme statement? He said he would not trade Poehling for help on defence. He is the one who went too far and lacked nuance and realism. Had he said do not trade Poehling for a rental, we would have agreed. Had he said not even for Muzzin with 1.5 years left, I still would have agreed. But not if there are no qualifiers at all.

You never say never.

Also, I asked about other players too besides Dahlin.
 

NotProkofievian

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BaseballCoach said:
Maybe, possibly, hopefully.....that's not good enough.

FACT: We already have 3 NHL calibre centres that are 25 and under.

FACT: We do not have 2 of the top 4 D we need.

CONCLUSION: I'm ok with trading a great prospect that would just REPLACE one of our Cs for player that would improve our LD position now AND for several more years.
Click to expand...

Lol. Maybe, possibly, hopefully is exactly what our center lineup is. You're willing to say that after 2 decades of waiting, Domi and Danault have put an end to the habs center woes? Nah, bro, I'm not trading a single center until it's obvious that our cup runneth over. Other teams have ran with Strong-Weak pairings before and have been successful.

I'm willing to take the risk that Poehling's value is as high as it will ever be. If he doesn't represent an improvement over Danault, we're f***ed anyways. If he is, we can trade Danault.
 
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Redux91

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BaseballCoach said:
Did you read the rest? Is there not SOME point at which it could be worth it and not unrealistic?
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You're right about at least listening to whats out there

But youre talking about a team thats had no centers for 20 years.. decision making when it comes to centers with THIS franchise will be skewed for a while

so to cater to your point about realism, YES, obviously there are deals to be made out there , there always is, and there always will be and GM's listen to everything
but when it comes to THIS particular franchise and THIS particular subject and THIS particular time, we'll have to ask you to be a bit more "realistic"

Poehling for a number of D youve brought up, makes sense sure, but it doesnt make sense for the habs right now, and bergevin even said as much, its only logical right now to hang onto these centermen until you REALLY know what you have, despite all the "good" poehling did at WJC, we still just dont know

so you want to fleece buffalo with poehling for dahlin go right ahead, im sure there is a psychiatric ward capable of supporting such delusions
 
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Runner77

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BaseballCoach said:
Did you read the rest? Is there not SOME point at which it could be worth it and not unrealistic?
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You're using an extreme outlier to prove a point? Who are these GMs who would give up a Rasmus Dahlin for Poehling?

Making hurried assessments and drawing hastened conclusions in an attempt to fill one hole is very likely to create another.

I'm looking at what it took to get here and it's been a long sinewy path and we still don't know exactly what we have, for the most part. Let's see some development happen to the point that we can ascertain how much quality organizational depth we really have on hand at the center position. Once that happens, then I would humbly propose that we can more reliably determine how much of it is disposable.
 
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BaseballCoach

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NotProkofievian said:
Lol. Maybe, possibly, hopefully is exactly what our center lineup is. You're willing to say that after 2 decades of waiting, Domi and Danault have put an end to the habs center woes?
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No, but they are more than good enough for #2 and #3. Right now, we have to assume that Kotkaniemi pans out.

Besides, I'm not actually looking to trade Poehling. Not at all! I'm just saying that on the off-chance that moving him would solve a big need for a long time, I would listen and decide on the merits.
 
Goldenhands

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BaseballCoach said:
No problem, once Poehling is ready.
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Of course, it would be stupid to trade Danault now, I say we just should let things go and fall in place, no hasty useless trades, Tampa got McDonagh for very little when was time to add a top 4 lefty vet dman to solidify their team as a prime contender in the league, we should be able to fix things when we are in a position to really contend...
 
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Runner77

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BaseballCoach said:
Why are you asking ME to make more sense when the person to whom I'm responding is the one that made the extreme statement? He said he would not trade Poehling for help on defence. He is the one who went too far and lacked nuance and realism. Had he said do not trade Poehling for a rental, we would have agreed. Had he said not even for Muzzin with 1.5 years left, I still would have agreed. But not if there are no qualifiers at all.

You never say never.

Also, I asked about other players too besides Dahlin.
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The person you were responding to only went as far as the GM's statements at his mid-season presser. I believe MB said he would not be trading his best prospects.
 

NotProkofievian

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Runner77 said:
How many of the potential targets are close to being NHL ready, considering where we're likely to be selecting?
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I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, given that I didn't think Kotkaniemi would be NHL ready lol. I don't think Robertson will jump directly to the NHL, though.
 
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BaseballCoach

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Redux91 said:
You're right about at least listening to whats out there

But youre talking about a team thats had no centers for 20 years.. decision making when it comes to centers with THIS franchise will be skewed for a while

so to cater to your point about realism, YES, obviously there are deals to be made out there , there always is, and there always will be and GM's listen to everything
Click to expand...

Dahlin was just to make a point, obviously. But would you trade Poehling today for Shea Theodore? Ivan Provorov? Shayne Gostisbehere? If a GM really wanted him because he won an honour at the WJC, and we could fill a position we need badly, then we have to listen. Gostisbehere as a D got more points last year than Poehling will likely ever get in a season.
 
Runner77

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NotProkofievian said:
I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, given that I didn't think Kotkaniemi would be NHL ready lol. I don't think Robertson will jump directly to the NHL, though.
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Interesting, considering we'd not be picking in the top 10. I'd rather see what the draft brings. I very much doubt Poehling is going to be going anywhere.
 

Scriptor

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NotProkofievian said:
Lol. Maybe, possibly, hopefully is exactly what our center lineup is. You're willing to say that after 2 decades of waiting, Domi and Danault have put an end to the habs center woes? Nah, bro, I'm not trading a single center until it's obvious that our cup runneth over. Other teams have ran with Strong-Weak pairings before and have been successful.

I'm willing to take the risk that Poehling's value is as high as it will ever be. If he doesn't represent an improvement over Danault, we're ****ed anyways. If he is, we can trade Danault.
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There's always a possibility that Poehling won't be an improvement over Danault. We can't be certain of anything for now. However, as disappointing as it would be, we're not necessarily screwed anyhow.

Poehling not measuring up might see him topping out in a LW role on a 3rd line instead of a role at C? It can also give Suzuki an opportunity at C that he isn't likely to get at the NHL level if you listen to everyone projecting him as a RW.

Then, it doesn't consider how KK will progress. If he becomes a genuine #1C like Bowman estimated, a C-line of Kotkaniemi - Domi - Danault would be far from a bad thing, IMO.
 
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Scriptor

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BaseballCoach said:
Dahlin was just to make a point, obviously. But would you trade Poehling today for Shea Theodore? Ivan Provorov? Shayne Gostisbehere? If a GM really wanted him because he won an honour at the WJC, and we could fill a position we need badly, then we have to listen. Gostisbehere as a D got more points last year than Poehling will likely ever get in a season.
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Seriously, what's up with Gotisbehere this year? 40P, 65P, 35P?
 
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