Confirmed with Link: Ryan O'Reilly Thread Part III - O'Reilly SIGNS 2 yrs 12M (6M AAV) - No Arbitration

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Frenchy

Administrator
Sep 16, 2006
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I think I'm afraid to disagree with our moderator now.

So I think this is a great deal!
ROR wins
Avs win
Fans win

All are blessed

You shouldnt be afriad , everyone here have the right to say what they want , as long as it's within the rules. That's the basic of a message board like HF . We may not always be on the same page , but everyone have the right to express themself .
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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Good points, Bad Goalie. As frustrating as it is we just can't worry THAT much about the future. Who knows what will happen by then. We could win a cup, we could have McDavid. Things change. We have a lot of great pieces guaranteed to be here already. The Avs still have options, so we'll just see what happens.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,136
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If a team could sign him to a long term deal as an RFA then they can sign him to an extension as a UFA. Either way, he'll be asking for the same amount

Not in any way a safe assumption to make. That a guy who's an RFA will ask for the same amount as when he's approaching UFA. Especially a guy who uses leverage to the full extent that he can.

The road is different but the end will/can be the same. O'Reilly doesn't have to sign a multi year contract next off-season if he only got the one year deal. He could just go for player elected arbitration, team is forced to take the one year award and O'Reilly walks at the end of the year. Or he takes the QO and walks to UFA.

The only difference between the two-year deal and the one year award is that O'Reilly is under contract for the 2015-16 season. With the one year award he would only be under contract for this season. He still would still get to UFA just as fast either way.

I think that's just taking the speculation a little too far. He doesn't have to sign a multi year deal, but it's a little silly to think he won't propose one.

As opposed to being a pending UFA, he doesn't have to even put forward an offer, and the team trading for him might not even know what his asking price is, because he hasn't made any. He's waiting to hit UFA.

In one case, O'Reilly is forced to negotiate. In the other case he's not.

Also, to make clear this one year vs two year conversation was a result of me saying I'd rather have the one year deal so they could trade him and because then his trade value would be higher. Not because I think he'll be easier for the Avs to sign. He'll be equally hard because the Avs don't like his asking price. He will however be much easier for the team that's willing to meet his asking price to re-sign as an RFA vs a pending UFA.

For one more year to become UFA year after that anyway and sign with anyone for top dollar.

Skipped right past the point. Has to negotiate and make an offer vs doesn't have to negotiate or make an offer. Which player would you rather trade for? Assuming you're already comfortable with his asking price.
 

5280

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Jan 15, 2011
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Not in any way a safe assumption to make. That a guy who's an RFA will ask for the same amount as when he's approaching UFA. Especially a guy who uses leverage to the full extent that he can.



I think that's just taking the speculation a little too far. He doesn't have to sign a multi year deal, but it's a little silly to think he won't propose one.

As opposed to being a pending UFA, he doesn't have to even put forward an offer, and the team trading for him might not even know what his asking price is, because he hasn't made any. He's waiting to hit UFA.

In one case, O'Reilly is forced to negotiate. In the other case he's not.

Also, to make clear this one year vs two year conversation was a result of me saying I'd rather have the one year deal so they could trade him and because then his trade value would be higher. Not because I think he'll be easier for the Avs to sign. He'll be equally hard because the Avs don't like his asking price. He will however be much easier for the team that's willing to meet his asking price to re-sign as an RFA vs a pending UFA.



Skipped right past the point. Has to negotiate and make an offer vs doesn't have to negotiate or make an offer. Which player would you rather trade for? Assuming you're already comfortable with his asking price.

But you have to make the assumption that a team that would trade for RoR already would have a contract that he is ready to sign in hand or would realize that they are only going to get a year or a year and change of service from him either way. He hits FA at the same time. A team that would possibly trade for him doesn't have any extra leverage to use against him to sign a contract whether he is a UFA or a RFA. I guess that was my angle.
 

Hennessy

Ye Jacobites, by name
Dec 20, 2006
14,385
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On my keister
I like that they came to an agreement before arbitration.
I like that ROR can prove himself with the Avs.
I'm extremely cynical about what ROR is up to in the not-so-distant future.
Until he signs long-term, I'll view him as a rental.
I highly doubt he signs long-term unless he turns it ON and the Avs react to the obvious.
In short, I'm skeptical of the guy. Both in how he'll perform and what he'll do down the road, regardless.
But for right now, and for as much as he's pissed me off, I'll hope (maybe naively) for the best.
I guess that's what being a fan is all about.
 

Mupster

Registered User
Feb 16, 2012
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I'm curious if anybody thinks that since Sakic and ROR were reportedly in the same room when a deal was struck, if that could be a factor in the signing.

I won't pretend to know how these type of negotiations normally go, but I would imagine the agency handles a majority (or all) of the communication on the players side. We all know how Newport seems to operate, so could ROR have felt compelled to take a more active role and accept a deal while being face to face with Sakic? In a sense, bridging the gap between Newport and the Avs?
 

Avsboy

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
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I'm curious if anybody thinks that since Sakic and ROR were reportedly in the same room when a deal was struck, if that could be a factor in the signing.

I won't pretend to know how these type of negotiations normally go, but I would imagine the agency handles a majority (or all) of the communication on the players side. We all know how Newport seems to operate, so could ROR have felt compelled to take a more active role and accept a deal while being face to face with Sakic? In a sense, bridging the gap between Newport and the Avs?

I proposed this as a possibility a few pages ago. I DEFINITELY think it was a factor in signing factor.
 

Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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I like that they came to an agreement before arbitration.
I like that ROR can prove himself with the Avs.
I'm extremely cynical about what ROR is up to in the not-so-distant future.
Until he signs long-term, I'll view him as a rental.
I highly doubt he signs long-term unless he turns it ON and the Avs react to the obvious.
In short, I'm skeptical of the guy. Both in how he'll perform and what he'll do down the road, regardless.
But for right now, and for as much as he's pissed me off, I'll hope (maybe naively) for the best.
I guess that's what being a fan is all about.

"I'm skeptical of the guy. Both in how he'll perform and what he'll do down the road"

What do you mean? Are you concerned he won't play well for some purposeful reason? That would kill his chances at big millions in UFA.
Do you mean he might just jump ship anyways after the next two years? Any player in the league can make that same decision when they become UFA eligible.

That is the nature of this game. It is a business and the teams use the players like pawns first to make money and second in order to win the big one. Players are short careered and have only so much time to fill up their banks. They are thinking of themselves and their families as well as the team and winning the Cup. Selfishly, many (both owners and players) choose the first option over the second early in their careers (most of us would too). Later on if the players last long enough and were good enough, the money is no longer a concern and then they worry about the second part if they haven't won it yet, e.g. Iginla, Pittsburgh, Boston, and now the Avs in less than 3 seasons and not for big bucks, but a chance at the Grail.

You may really hate ROR's methods, but he is trying to take care of ROR first. Obviously the Avs have a guiding principle of how much they are willing to pay anyone. Players are loyal to team and teammates only so far and if the team isn't willing to spend to the cap to keep its better players, another team will. It is a business first and a game second. These aren't rink rats playing on a pond, backyard rink, or in the street dreaming of being pros. These are the ones who made it and are going to make the best of the short time they have and you really can't blame them.
 
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expatriatedtexan

Habitual Line Stepper
Aug 17, 2005
16,345
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All this the Avs did the right thing by avoiding burning bridges or hurting ROR's feelings in an arbitration hearing is nonsense. Especially when right behind that ROR is lauded for making a business decision to manipulate the RFA system and by holding firm in order to maximize his value.

If he expects the organization and his team mates to separate and acknowledge the business part of hockey, than he should be tough enough to handle a bunch of front office guys listing off reasons he is only worth a percentage of what he is asking for.

He is after all a man of great Character, the kind of character you need to win a Stanley Cup

Come on buddy...It's okay for the owners to lower a player's potential income by implementing rules of Restricted Free Agency versus Unrestricted Free Agency but it's not ok for a player to stay within the rules and drive his own income up?

I'm not sure which thread I made the comment on but if I was to guess about ROR's thoughts, I would imagine he simply doesn't believe the CBA, Salary Cap, Restricted Free Agency and the NHLPA have his best interests in heart. He's a great (not exceptional...yet) hockey player with a pretty unique skill set and I would guess he thinks he should be able to negotiate contracts openly with any employer. He's never done anything that broke rules or contracts and has stayed within the rules of every CBA he's played under.

As a fan, I can somewhat understand a bit of unease and angst from other fans when he's being difficult or giving the team a hard time but seriously...the "team" gives players a much hard go every time a CBA expires. I guess I've just become a bit indifferent to the whole thing.

Didn't mean to single you out but this seemed like a good point at which to make my 2 cents...I guess I've just been a bit disappointed with all the animosity and negativity directed towards Ryan.
 

bromando

Registered User
Jun 4, 2013
891
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Not in any way a safe assumption to make. That a guy who's an RFA will ask for the same amount as when he's approaching UFA. Especially a guy who uses leverage to the full extent that he can.

It is a safe assumption if the rfa is only rfa for one more year and is O'Reilly. He isn't going to take a longterm cheaper deal just because he's an rfa. His likelihood of signing next June/July to an extension is just as high now as it would've been if he was an rfa. Nothing has changed except there won't be worries of arbitration or holdout next year. Him being an RFA clearly does not give a team leverage.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
45,300
9,465
I love the holier than thou attitude of the main board not only are they expert GM's but also a bunch of mother teresa's. As if they won't try to get the most money out of billionaires.:laugh:
 

Crisp Breakout

Registered User
Jan 3, 2011
5,238
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I love the holier than thou attitude of the main board not only are they expert GM's but also a bunch of mother teresa's. As if they won't try to get the most money out of billionaires.:laugh:

But... but... poor starving kids somewhere. Greedy SOB. Non-sequitur. <<Captain Hindsight and his loyal companions Coulda, Woulda, and Shoulda appear>> Bad term. Avs should've signed him to 20 year contract. It was obvious he'd be a superstar. Cause 1st overall in OHL draft. Leafs are awesome. David Perron and most Oilers are better.

There ya go. Now no one needs to read the main board thread.
 

chocoloco

Registered User
Jan 19, 2013
99
0
Colorado
Because I cannot just write, "**** Yeah".

I am glad they got O'Rielly for two years no matter what. I am not wasting my time thinking about the future. The time is now. The avs believe they can win Now and I believe the can win Now. He has chemistry with Duchene as well as comradery with this team's core. So I am not really worried about if he stays , or leaves two years down the line. This team is currently much better off with him. Save the worry for later.
 

AslanRH

Not a Core Poster
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Jun 5, 2012
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Come on buddy...It's okay for the owners to lower a player's potential income by implementing rules of Restricted Free Agency versus Unrestricted Free Agency but it's not ok for a player to stay within the rules and drive his own income up?

I'm not sure which thread I made the comment on but if I was to guess about ROR's thoughts, I would imagine he simply doesn't believe the CBA, Salary Cap, Restricted Free Agency and the NHLPA have his best interests in heart. He's a great (not exceptional...yet) hockey player with a pretty unique skill set and I would guess he thinks he should be able to negotiate contracts openly with any employer. He's never done anything that broke rules or contracts and has stayed within the rules of every CBA he's played under.

As a fan, I can somewhat understand a bit of unease and angst from other fans when he's being difficult or giving the team a hard time but seriously...the "team" gives players a much hard go every time a CBA expires. I guess I've just become a bit indifferent to the whole thing.

Didn't mean to single you out but this seemed like a good point at which to make my 2 cents...I guess I've just been a bit disappointed with all the animosity and negativity directed towards Ryan.

But the players agreed to the CBA, so it is as much on them. They wanted to reserve the big money for players in their prime years by limiting the money given to young players who haven't proven themselves or paid their dues just as much as the owners wanted to control contract inflation. The inflation that everyone including us knew would still happen, but instead of MacKinnon making 6m/yr right out of the draft, Clarkson makes 5+m and Stastny makes 7m.

My point is merely this poor excuse that it was better not to hurt his feelers in a hearing. He wants to play the business side, that is acceptable to me (even if I don't like it), but he has to be strong enough to get the kickback from playing that game too.

The people on here saying he's this great character player who will help whatever team he plays for win a Stanley Cup but then follow it up with "it's better the Avs did not burn bridges by going through with arbitration" are countering exactly the same traits they laud him for.
 

StayAtHomeAv

Registered User
May 20, 2014
6,681
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Come on buddy...It's okay for the owners to lower a player's potential income by implementing rules of Restricted Free Agency versus Unrestricted Free Agency but it's not ok for a player to stay within the rules and drive his own income up?
.

Not if the player is a RFA. Those guys should just bow down and happily except whatever offer is being given to them. Any RFA who tries to work the system is a greedy worthless POS who hates his team and can't wait to burn down whatever city they currently live in while spitting in the face of every fan on their way.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,056
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Denver
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I love the holier than thou attitude of the main board not only are they expert GM's but also a bunch of mother teresa's. As if they won't try to get the most money out of billionaires.:laugh:

The main board is full of morons. I can only read a few pages. They act as if their team could and would give him a blank check as if they don't have their own cap issues and don't understand why a team might try to abide by the salary cap.

But just because a shred of sanity prevailed today I'm not ready to act like this was just any other player-team situation that played out. Let's not rewrite history and call it what it is, doesn't change anything. I'm the master at understanding temporary happiness and ignorance is bliss so I'm relatively content for now with the temporary solution. It's a problem for another day is what it is.
 

5280

To the window!
Jan 15, 2011
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The main board is full of morons. I can only read a few pages. They act as if their team could and would give him a blank check as if they don't have their own cap issues and don't understand why a team might try to abide by the salary cap.

But just because a shred of sanity prevailed today I'm not ready to act like this was just any other player-team situation that played out. Let's not rewrite history and call it what it is, doesn't change anything. I'm the master at understanding temporary happiness and ignorance is bliss so I'm relatively content for now with the temporary solution. It's a problem for another day is what it is.

It's at least positive.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,056
6,154
Denver
burgundy-review.com
I'm curious if anybody thinks that since Sakic and ROR were reportedly in the same room when a deal was struck, if that could be a factor in the signing.

I won't pretend to know how these type of negotiations normally go, but I would imagine the agency handles a majority (or all) of the communication on the players side. We all know how Newport seems to operate, so could ROR have felt compelled to take a more active role and accept a deal while being face to face with Sakic? In a sense, bridging the gap between Newport and the Avs?

I think he was more than fine with how Newport was handling things but sure it's human nature when you look people in the eye and when literally the 11th hour dawns that people become motivated to find some sort of compromise. Even if the money ended up being basically the same it does say at least something that there ended up being some sort of human element at play in this situation.
 
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