Speculation: Ryan O'Reilly at the draft for Ryan Poeling, 2nd round pick +

[jfhabs]

I'm just commenting on those pieces, which were probably the most important pieces in either of the deals. The best prospect and highest pick.

That is highly debatable, Thompson is just older and further along in his development.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That is highly debatable, Thompson is just older and further along in his development.

I see how that was confusing. I wasn't trying to say that Thompson was better than Poeling, just that Thompson was the best prospect in his deal and Poeling would've been the best in his deal. The prospect and pick were the most value pieces in both packages. Any other picks or roster players were ultimately meaningless in terms of long-term value for Buffalo.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yes, but Berglund at 3.85M for 4 more years and Sobtoka at 3.5M for 2 more years...

Berglund is still a solid player. In era of cap, they are just throw-ins to balance it out. Montreal would've had to include some sort of inconsequential pieces back too.

 

[jfhabs]

I see how that was confusing. I wasn't trying to say that Thompson was better than Poeling, just that Thompson was the best prospect in his deal and Poeling would've been the best in his deal. The prospect and pick were the most value pieces in both packages. Any other picks or roster players were ultimately meaningless in terms of long-term value for Buffalo.

Ok, yes it was confusing. I just had a second look at your other post and I can see you wanted to say that. That 1st rounder in 2019 might be better then both Poehling and Thompson tho. The chance of habs 2nd from 2018 being better then those 2 was much less, even if last years draft was really deep imo.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Berglund is still a solid player. In era of cap, they are just throw-ins to balance it out. Montreal would've had to include some sort of inconsequential pieces back too.

Not really. Montreal had the cap space to take on 7.5M without sending anything back. St-Louis did not.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not really. Montreal had the cap space to take on 7.5M without sending anything back. St-Louis did not.

Buffalo would've likely wanted some sort of vet in return.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Buffalo would've likely wanted some sort of vet in return.

I agree. They weren’t much available from the Habs. Shaw? alzner? Byron? That’s the one “veterans” I could see Buffalo having an interest in.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I definitely like Poehling better than Thompson as a prospect, but not by a ton, so it would depend on what those other pieces are

 

[Hockey Stick]

Damned if you do,damned if you dont. Fans cried for transparency. MB sheds light on trade rumors - something we have been clamouring for years,and now that he does- people complain how bad he is.

Maybe fans who think like this are the problem.

People have complained about how bad he is right from the start of his term actually. Also, fans have been 'clamouring' for his firing for years. Most good gm's don't tell details of trade offers, likely as a way of showing respect to the opposing gm's and their assets. Revealing the details of their talks is very unprofessional, and it sheds complete light on the fact that he is the reason why this franchise isn't looking the way it should right about now

 

[Djp]

Buffalo would've likely wanted some sort of vet in return.

There wasn't any on Buffalo they had interest in. they didn't want Patches because he was too old and didn't want to resign him. Skinner was younger thus could resign.

Buffalo would have taken other players or picks then flipped them for some other teams vet who wasn't an utter cap dump.

 

[bleedblue1223]

There wasn't any on Buffalo they had interest in. they didn't want Patches because he was too old and didn't want to resign him. Skinner was younger thus could resign.

Buffalo would have taken other players or picks then flipped them for some other teams vet who wasn't an utter cap dump.

You don't know that. People constantly say that Sobotka and Berglund were pure cap dumps, but Sobotka is playing over 18 minutes, and Berglund over 16. There would've been someone from Montreal that would've taken those spots.

 

[Baksfamous112]

People have complained about how bad he is right from the start of his term actually. Also, fans have been 'clamouring' for his firing for years. Most good gm's don't tell details of trade offers, likely as a way of showing respect to the opposing gm's and their assets. Revealing the details of their talks is very unprofessional, and it sheds complete light on the fact that he is the reason why this franchise isn't looking the way it should right about now

O’Reilly has been traded 3++ months ago. Who cares if a GM said what the asking pieces from his team was after said player was traded? At this point, it doesn’t affect anyone and fans are interested in knowing those kind of things

 

[CraigBillington]

Damned if you do,damned if you dont. Fans cried for transparency. MB sheds light on trade rumors - something we have been clamouring for years,and now that he does- people complain how bad he is.

Maybe fans who think like this are the problem.

I like that he mentioned that. Imagine if you're Poehling and you get wind that another team asked for you as the centrepiece of a deal involving Ryan O'Reilly. To me, I'd take that as a confidence boost.

 

[HuGo Sham]

But that rebuild still isn't really happening.

With Price and Weber on the team, they're going to be unable to truly tear things down or finish near the bottom. And the moves from ownership and management seem to be keeping them in "mediocrity" anyway. So why not try to win?

habs are the youngest team in the NHL

 

[HuGo Sham]

Barring some miracle, I can't see a 'rebuilt' Montreal team being competitive in their current form and facing the likely divisional opponents they'll have 1-2 years from now. They'll be a bubble team just like they would have been had they made this trade for O'Reilly and addressed their defense in a more serious manner this summer.

I just don't understand your management's decision to do a complete 180 so soon after committing to Carey Price and Shea Weber. It's possible to both 'rebuild' and be competitive simultaneously. Adding one of the league's top two way centers signed for five more seasons in the prime of his career would have gone a long way to helping both of those causes.

obviously the rebuilding would've gone sideways with the assets buffalo was asking for. poehling will play in montreal this march with suzuki making the team next year. price is only beginning his prime as a goalie while weber is on the decline. some would argue weber's game will age well (like chara) because of size and positioning and IQ. i think you'll see habs focus on D next draft wether they pick high or low...their C position will be set if Kotkaniemi emerges and 2 of their top 4 Dmen are 21 and 20..habs have a lot of nice depth on the wing

 

[Mike Liut]

I must say after watching ROR these first 3 games that he’s a hell of a player.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Blues decline easily

 

[Just Linda]

It’s funny people mention Mittlestadt, Phoeling, and Thompson in the same sentence considering how similar their numbers were in university for the same age. I think a lot of people often forget just how young Poehling is.

I like Tage Thompson a lot but I will say Poehling is far closer to Mittlestadt than Thompson is to Poehling. I do feel Mittlestadt is over hyped but I’ve been very impressed with Poehling’s development. I think there’s about a decent chance that Poehling develops into a better player than Mittlestadt.

I feel Montreal made the right choice. Kotkaneimi, Phoeling, Suzuki, Denault, Domi is a decent centre group to grow around. With O’Reilly, Patches likely doesn’t get traded and Suzuki doesn’t join. Montreal would have drafted Zadina or Tkatchuk instead of Kotkaneimi (maybe). OReilly walks at the end of his contract leaving Montreal with nothing down the middle.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Poehling was also on Minny's radar:

This was in fact the second time Poehling could have gotten Bergevin some immediate help, and both times he took a pass. The first came at the 2017 draft, as Poehling was falling down the board.
“Three picks before our pick that year, Minnesota called me. They made me an offer for that pick. It was tempting, but I said no,” Bergevin said. “Then after the pick, Chuck Fletcher came to me and he goes, ‘That was our guy.’ Trust me, it was tempting to trade the pick because it would help us right away, but I said no, if Poehling’s there we’re taking Poehling.”

The story is that the deal was Scandella for that 1st. We know the Sabres robbed Minny blind on the Scandella deal but I think it was definitely the right decision to just take Poehling. Then again, if we got Scandella we don't sign Alzner to that ludicrous deal soooo...

 

[Balthazar]

I must say after watching ROR these first 3 games that he’s a hell of a player.

He's a good player and was a perfect fit for Montreal and especially Julien. ROR is Bergeron lite.

We'll never know what the "+" was in the asking price but it better be big because ROR for Poehling and a 2nd would be a f***ing steal. Even in the best case scenario Poehling doesn't even project to become as good as ROR.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Personally, I prefer the St. Louis deal (without knowing the other pieces involved from Montreal).

Thompson and Poehling are close enough as prospects that an argument can be made for either.

But we also got a 1st + 2nd from St. Louis (as opposed to just a 2nd from Montreal).

And people talk about a Berglund and Sobotka as cap dump throw-ins.
But those 2 pieces gave Buffalo actual NHL caliber bottom 6 depth for the first time since their rebuild started (2013 season).
It also created real competition for those bottom 6 spots. Again, something buffalo hasn’t had since the rebuild started.


Plus there is the added bonus of not sending ROR to a division rival.

He would have been an absolutely perfect center for Claude Julien, and Buffalo would have to play against him more often for the next 5 years, and (hopefully eventually) compete against montreal for a playoff spot.

 

[Djp]

The story is that the deal was Scandella for that 1st. We know the Sabres robbed Minny blind on the Scandella deal but I think it was definitely the right decision to just take Poehling. Then again, if we got Scandella we don't sign Alzner to that ludicrous deal soooo...

I wouldn’t say that...

Thus deal had been in the works for over a year between buffalo and Minnesota.

Also don’t forget the money aspect.

It was Scadella and Pominville for Foligno and a buy out friendly Ennis. For this year-with them buying out Ennis gave them a net gain of $4.5 M in cap space. This year Minnesota has under $2M in available space.

 

[Yatzhee]

Interesting piece in the Athletic this morning where, in an interview with M. Bergevin done at the beginning of the season, Montreal GM says that Botteril was asking for Ryan Poeling, 2nd round pick, "+" for Ryan O'Reilly.



From Poehling to Price: why Marc Bergevin's plan must...

Canadiens felt the price was too high and backed off.

Of course, we do not know what the + was, but I'm wondering which package would have been more attractive in your opinion, knowing that finally the Blues gave up Tage Thompson, a 2019 lottery protected 1st rounder, a 2021 2nd rounder, Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka.

Obviously, Montreal 2nd rounder has quite a bit more value given where Blues/Canadien projects to end up in the standings, but I don't know enough about Tage Thompson to be definitive... I would tend to think Poeling has more value. Am I wrong?

2nd rd picks aren't much different in value from 32 to 45. They are a crap shoot, so not so valued.
That Blues protected 1st rounder 2019 becomes an unprotected 1st rounder if they decide to push it to 2020. Buffalo has the same deal with the Sharks. If both the Sharks and Blues wind up in a position to push the picks to 2020, Buffalo has 2 unprotected picks in that draft from those teams. Not a great chance that happens, but, let's see the season play out and where that goes...…….

 

[nickdawg95]

I think this was over-rated as an issue. Its just his salary. It happens to be a lump sum, but not something that would really make a big impact on either side of the trade barring a budget team running on a shoestring.

that's just plan wrong, it has been said from sources that buffalo would of gotten more (swap tage for thomas/kyrou) if the sabres paid the 7.5 m its For sure a factor

 

[bleedblue1223]

that's just plan wrong, it has been said from sources that buffalo would of gotten more (swap tage for thomas/kyrou) if the sabres paid the 7.5 m its For sure a factor

Show me the source that said Thomas or Kyrou.