Ryan Johansen II (contract etc)

[IHeartZherdev*]

There is a 0% chance that RyJo is currently a better overall player, on the ice and in the locker room, than a healthy Datsyuk and Bergeron. Maybe in 2-3 years, but not now.

That list is sort of bonkers.

2 years, $4.9-5.1 mil AAV. Gets done sometime after training camp starts.

RyJo played 82 games last season.

Datsyk played 45.

That alone makes RyJo more better and more valuable. That list was for fantasy rankings, so I'm sure the games played/injuries factored in a lot

But fantasy or reality, can't be "better on the ice and in the locker room" if you are in the press box or the cold tub or not even with your teammates on the road.

 

[EDM]

The only game situation that I saw mentioned, and it was not by you, related to RyJo's pass to Dubie. And if we assume that Ryjo was actually aiming for Dubie rather than just blindly swatting it back toward the net, I can see the argument for that being "clutch". You gave some stats, including 2 goals in six games, that did not amount to "clutch" as far as I was concerned. For me, Boone was clutch, Matty was clutch, Dubie was clutch. Ryjo? No. Ultimately unless the stats are overwhelming and they certainly were not overwhelming for RyJo against the Pens, "clutch" is a matter of perception and opinion. Why you continue to argue as if only you can have a valid opinion, I have no idea. I guess double dating with the Almighty can do that to a person.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: FYI Ryan Johansen's agent Kurt Overhardt says he met with Jackets management today though says nothing new to report...will continue to talk

 

[aRussian]

I'm just not getting why people seem to have a personal stake in this. Unless it's a "I guessed how much he actually received!" contest...

My thoughts are that Joey will be with us, it's not my money, and we'll do pretty ok this season. We actually have a team to really look forward to.

 

[Sore Loser]

RyJo played 82 games last season.

Datsyk played 45.

That alone makes RyJo more better and more valuable.

Stopped reading after "more better" because it's both a ludicrous point a view and a terrible butchering of the English language.

Highlighted only to post the following emoticon...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Stopped reading after "more better" because it's both a ludicrous point a view and a terrible butchering of the English language.

Highlighted only to post the following emoticon...

 

[DJA]

Aaron Portzline @Aportzline · 48s
Told #CBJ asst. GM Bill Zito and Ryan Johansen's agent, Kurt Overhardt, met yesterday in Traverse City. No progress; still $3M apart / year

 

[Dr. Fire]

If RyJo isn't going to get off his demands, then we won't be seeing him on the ice any time soon.

 

[KJ Dangler]

If RyJo isn't going to get off his demands, then we won't be seeing him on the ice any time soon.

Yep, from ap this am,

@Aportzline: #CBJ say they wish Johansen had arbitration rights now, that a deal would be done. That's how strongly they feel about $3.5M offer.

 

[EDM]

CBJ feel good about the $3.5 million because, as been noted repeatedly in this thread, every objective metric from every source supports their offer. Joey has nothing on his own side but his own unrestrained ego and IHZ. Joey holds at $6+ million per year the blame for the potential breakdown in negotiations is 100% on him.

 

[KJ Dangler]

CBJ feel good about the $3.5 million because, as been noted repeatedly in this thread, every objective metric from every source supports their offer. Joey has nothing on his own side but his own unrestrained ego and IHZ. Joey holds at $6+ million per year the blame for the potential breakdown in negotiations is 100% on him.

But but but, he had one good year

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Split the difference

Pay him 5MM for each of the next two years then sign him for a large 6 year contract.

Why try and bend your future star player over - he should at least follow the Skinner contract. If I see this franchise get to greedy I will stop giving them any of my money & I have only started to buy tickets again after a three year hiatus. I am a lifetime NHL fan that would rather watch hockey than any other sport.. the average fan can now watch two better NFL teams, & Lebron's Cavs. Mgmt better get Joey signed.

 

[TheOllieC]

Pay him 5MM for each of the next two years then sign him for a large 6 year contract.

Why try and bend your future star player over - he should at least follow the Skinner contract. If I see this franchise get to greedy I will stop giving them any of my money & I have only started to buy tickets again after a three year hiatus. I am a lifetime NHL fan that would rather watch hockey than any other sport.. the average fan can now watch two better NFL teams, & Lebron's Cavs. Mgmt better get Joey signed.

Why should CBJ risk handing him that deal if they don't feel comfortable doing so? Skinner had a Calder, all star appearance, 51 goals and 107pts in 146 games when he signed the 6 year extension.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with how management is going about it, but you can't blame them. At all.

 

[EDM]

It is not that they are trying to "bend him over". I think the $3.5 million figure clearly allows room to go up to maybe $4.5 million. Problem seems to be that Joey's agent is still at $6.5 million and CBJ are not going to up their offer until they know that Joey is willing to come down and meet at a middle point. I think if Joey's agent came down to $5 million there would be a deal within 24 hours at something close to 2 years at $9.5 million

 

[Sore Loser]

It is not that they are trying to "bend him over". I think the $3.5 million figure clearly allows room to go up to maybe $4.5 million. Problem seems to be that Joey's agent is still at $6.5 million and CBJ are not going to up their offer until they know that Joey is willing to come down and meet at a middle point. I think if Joey's agent came down to $5 million there would be a deal within 24 hours at something close to 2 years at $9.5 million

Agreed.

 

[thebus2288*]

Even if we go by just the playoffs, Dubinsky outplayed Johansen. Johansen was and is our 2ND LINE CENTER. All the numbers support this. Both had 6 points. Johansen had 4 PP points to Dubinsky's 1. I obviously disagree with how some people on here value PP points but I just don't see any way how having more PP points shows that you are playing better or the better player. Not to mention the defensive assignments and PK time. Although I guess PK time shouldn't count as it is not in the "un-shorthanded situations per 60" category.

For those who attempt to throw out all the other examples of past negotiations, including Dubinsky's...Why did Dubi sign with us when he did? He should have waited for July to test the market, as those are his rights, RIGHT? Make as much money as he can for his family as this is probably his last "big" contract, RIGHT? A 20 min a game center(who Johansen is not) that can play big minutes on the PK(which Johansen does not) and the PP, and good for 50 points is quite valued and needed throughout the league. Could easily have gotten 6+ mil a year from somebody. But why sign with us, especially when he did? Character.

Looking back, even though I did think it was more of a joke, maybe there is more to that "2nd line center" tweet sent to Dubi than we think/thought. Maybe he really thinks he is the teams top center and that he deserves to be paid like it right now. The problem is that HE'S NOT. His play(compared to Dubi) and even the numbers from this year don't show it IMO. Its not like he was head and shoulders above everybody at all. Its not a knock that he played all 82 but you have to take that into account when looking at stats. He had 13 more points than Dubi while playing in 6 more games. 20 PP points to 10. He's not gonna take any less than 6. And in 2-3 years no matter what his play looks like he's not gonna take less than 8.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

It is not that they are trying to "bend him over". I think the $3.5 million figure clearly allows room to go up to maybe $4.5 million. Problem seems to be that Joey's agent is still at $6.5 million and CBJ are not going to up their offer until they know that Joey is willing to come down and meet at a middle point. I think if Joey's agent came down to $5 million there would be a deal within 24 hours at something close to 2 years at $9.5 million

Agree with this too.

 

[CBJFan19*]

Why should CBJ risk handing him that deal if they don't feel comfortable doing so? Skinner had a Calder, all star appearance, 51 goals and 107pts in 146 games when he signed the 6 year extension.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with how management is going about it, but you can't blame them. At all.

Joey didnt have an AS game to play in over the last 2 years....

 

[Sore Loser]

Joey didnt have an AS game to play in over the last 2 years....

Who do you see being left off for Johansen? The Eastern conference has no shortage of all-star centers, from Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Bergeron, Datsyuk (regardless of what IHZ thinks), Giroux, to guys like the afforementioned Skinner, Backstrom, and Derek Stepan. Making the all-star team isn't an easy feat, and it's usually reserved for guys who have fanbases all around the country. Even though Datsyuk didn't have a tremendous year, do you really see him being left off the team in favor of an upstart? Whether or not we like it, the NHL is going to put guys on the all-star rosters who are going to put butts in seats and in front of TVs. Johansen isn't at that point in his career, just yet.

 

[db2011]

Yep, from ap this am,

@Aportzline: #CBJ say they wish Johansen had arbitration rights now, that a deal would be done. That's how strongly they feel about $3.5M offer.

That's an awful number to feel so strongly about. Come on Jackets, wake up and smell the coffee.

My answer to DSL's question (which was what do we think Joey should get, right, not what we think he will get?) is year 1: $5 million, year 2: $6 million.

 

[Jackets16]

It is not that they are trying to "bend him over". I think the $3.5 million figure clearly allows room to go up to maybe $4.5 million. Problem seems to be that Joey's agent is still at $6.5 million and CBJ are not going to up their offer until they know that Joey is willing to come down and meet at a middle point. I think if Joey's agent came down to $5 million there would be a deal within 24 hours at something close to 2 years at $9.5 million

Exactly

 

[Jackets16]

That's an awful number to feel so strongly about. Come on Jackets, wake up and smell the coffee.

My answer to DSL's question (which was what do we think Joey should get, right, not what we think he will get?) is year 1: $5 million, year 2: $6 million.

Way too much.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Dubi is one of my favorite players

Even if we go by just the playoffs, Dubinsky outplayed Johansen. Johansen was and is our 2ND LINE CENTER. All the numbers support this. Both had 6 points. Johansen had 4 PP points to Dubinsky's 1. I obviously disagree with how some people on here value PP points but I just don't see any way how having more PP points shows that you are playing better or the better player. Not to mention the defensive assignments and PK time. Although I guess PK time shouldn't count as it is not in the "un-shorthanded situations per 60" category.

For those who attempt to throw out all the other examples of past negotiations, including Dubinsky's...Why did Dubi sign with us when he did? He should have waited for July to test the market, as those are his rights, RIGHT? Make as much money as he can for his family as this is probably his last "big" contract, RIGHT? A 20 min a game center(who Johansen is not) that can play big minutes on the PK(which Johansen does not) and the PP, and good for 50 points is quite valued and needed throughout the league. Could easily have gotten 6+ mil a year from somebody. But why sign with us, especially when he did? Character.

Looking back, even though I did think it was more of a joke, maybe there is more to that "2nd line center" tweet sent to Dubi than we think/thought. Maybe he really thinks he is the teams top center and that he deserves to be paid like it right now. The problem is that HE'S NOT. His play(compared to Dubi) and even the numbers from this year don't show it IMO. Its not like he was head and shoulders above everybody at all. Its not a knock that he played all 82 but you have to take that into account when looking at stats. He had 13 more points than Dubi while playing in 6 more games. 20 PP points to 10. He's not gonna take any less than 6. And in 2-3 years no matter what his play looks like he's not gonna take less than 8.

but lets not error here comparing the two. Dubi is peaking, Johansen is 22 - I personally would like to have both on our team so I think this comparison is of little value.

Did you watch the Blue Jackets the past decade? There are two types of teams in the NHL. 1/2 that have a top line pivot, and the other half that are trying to acquire one. We get a young guy that can dish it, or snipe, virtually lifts the performance of everyone that plays with him & we want to lowball him to make him earn his stripes.

Carolina has a Cup & a winning mgmt style. Yeah Skinner did a lot for the money but he is the comparable young centreman. Offering him 3.5 when the comparable players make 5MM is pretty insulting. I hear the argument that says do it for more than 1 year and that is a valid thought. But please acknowledge that the kid has elite talent that is not acquired by the normal player that just works really hard. We finally have a pretty good dressing room.. lets keep our upcoming stars in the room. the Number is going to be around 5MM why not get there and try to have a win/win? Better yet lets play hard ball and really show the league we aren't going to be taken advantage of. Everyone wants to play for the CBJ? I would make the arguement that I would rather pay young Joey the money than Nathan Horton. One is getting better/ the other may never make it back to his prime.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

I recognize you may know a lot more about this than me..

Way too much.

but have you looked at the cost of free agents? On the market someone will certainly pay Johansen that contract.

 

[Samkow]

Time for part 3.