Player Discussion Ryan Getzlaf

[Paul4587]

This was from a “why is Toews considered clutch when Getzlaf has better numbers” question in 2016. It’s not just a couple Game 7’s, it’s pretty much every elimination game he’s a no show over that span. Win OR lose.

Getzlaf was rode a decent amount more in the playoffs than Toews and plays a heavier game which is going to wear him down over the course of a series. Getzlaf in 14-15 was averaging a minute and a half more per game than Toews was. I don’t think it’s any surprise the latter had far more gas in the tank late in the series. Since becoming 1C Toews over the course of his playoff career averages close to 2 mins less per game in the playoffs compared to Getzy. Ice time management is key in the playoffs, we’ve never really had the depth to be able to afford Getzlaf much rest.

Not to mention Getzlaf played on BB coached teams which were notorious for choking away series. When you look at the splits between BB and RC the numbers are a little more favourable. Both flawed coaches (RC far more so) but RC didn’t panic when trying to close out a series like BB did and had a much better playoff track record.

His numbers since 06-07 under Carlyle in elimination games are 6G 8A 14P in 15G. Almost a PPG and far better than they were under BB.

And I also agree with Static’s take - why do we need to place difference levels of importance over different games? Every game and win counts in the playoffs.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Why are we assigning different levels of importance to games in a series? They all count the same, the subtext given to later games is just a psychological narrative.

Because you want ant your leaders to show up in the games that win or lose the series? Guys who score in Game 7’s and goalies who shut teams down in Game 7’s have their reputations for a reason. Having to rely on your role players to win the series isn’t a formula for team success.

He’s a good performer in the playoffs. He won’t ever be considered great if he can’t close out series though IMO.

 

[Static]

Because you want ant your leaders to show up in the games that win or lose the series? Guys who score in Game 7’s and goalies who shut teams down in Game 7’s have their reputations for a reason. Having to rely on your role players to win the series isn’t a formula for team success.

He’s a good performer in the playoffs. He won’t ever be considered great if he can’t close out series though IMO.

15 games is a nothing sample size in games that matter the exact same as ones earlier in the series. Win four is the same as win one.

 

[Bergey37]

15 games is a nothing sample size in games that matter the exact same as ones earlier in the series. Win four is the same as win one.

Except they don't matter exactly the same. Games 1-3, and usually game 4, if you lose you get to come back another day. Game 7 is ALWAYS a win-or-go-home situation for ALL teams, and Game 6's are always that way for half the teams. Sometimes game 5, too. It's true that a win in game 7 counts the same as a win in game 1, but to use that to say the games matter the same is a deflection argument because the circumstances of those games are radically different.

In the WCF series we lost to Chicago, Getz and Perry were both -6 for games 6 and 7; considerably worse than their +/- for that series. And I recall doing some research at the time that showed their point totals for game 6s and 7s over a number of seasons were statistically significantly worse than their point totals for random samples of equal size.

This is why I believe many ascribe more "meaning" to the last games of a series than to the earlier ones, and why many are tempted to say the twins have been "no-shows" in games that matter more in their eyes. That's how it has looked to me.

 

[Static]

Except they don't matter exactly the same. Games 1-3, and usually game 4, if you lose you get to come back another day. Game 7 is ALWAYS a win-or-go-home situation for ALL teams, and Game 6's are always that way for half the teams. Sometimes game 5, too. It's true that a win in game 7 counts the same as a win in game 1, but to use that to say the games matter the same is a deflection argument because the circumstances of those games are radically different.

In the WCF series we lost to Chicago, Getz and Perry were both -6 for games 6 and 7; considerably worse than their +/- for that series. And I recall doing some research at the time that showed their point totals for game 6s and 7s over a number of seasons were statistically significantly worse than their point totals for random samples of equal size.

This is why I believe many ascribe more "meaning" to the last games of a series than to the earlier ones, and why many are tempted to say the twins have been "no-shows" in games that matter more in their eyes. That's how it has looked to me.

Whether a team has a chance of going home or not has no bearing on "importance". The value of a win or loss doesn't change whether it is in game one or in game seven because the results are weighted the same throughout. The fourth win isn't possible without the first three, so assigning more importance to it is nonsensical.

The entire "clutch" factor is complete and utter BS and more chance than anything else. Getzlaf's full body of playoff work (100+ games is a decent sample size) says more about his importance than a handful of games given arbitrary meaning by fans, especially fans who have been burned by the results of those games.

 

[DavidBL]

Whether a team has a chance of going home or not has no bearing on "importance". The value of a win or loss doesn't change whether it is in game one or in game seven because the results are weighted the same throughout. The fourth win isn't possible without the first three, so assigning more importance to it is nonsensical.

The entire "clutch" factor is complete and utter BS and more chance than anything else. Getzlaf's full body of playoff work (100+ games is a decent sample size) says more about his importance than a handful of games given arbitrary meaning by fans, especially fans who have been burned by the results of those games.

How can you not believe there is a difference between an elimination game and and a no elimination game? That to me seems like utter BS. The value is the same but the circumstances are much different and with those changes how players/teams prepare for games. It much like how teams will play "safe" at the end of game when protecting a lead. The series count is very important.

Also who said clutch? We're not talking about a random game winning goal. But potentially a recurring trend. Weather or not its Getzlaf's fault the narrative is there because there is some evidence to support it. Like being -6 in the two most pivotal game's of a conference finals series vs Chicago. I remember watching Getzlaf and Perry just be out played by Kane and Toews. Plain and simple. Is that on BB? Were the twins just too tired by the time they got to those games? Are Kane and Toews just better? I don't know. What we do know is that we lost and we had 2 games to close out a team and our beat players weren't our best players. So the question then becomes, why?

 

[Ducks DVM]

Whether a team has a chance of going home or not has no bearing on "importance". The value of a win or loss doesn't change whether it is in game one or in game seven because the results are weighted the same throughout. The fourth win isn't possible without the first three, so assigning more importance to it is nonsensical.

The entire "clutch" factor is complete and utter BS and more chance than anything else. Getzlaf's full body of playoff work (100+ games is a decent sample size) says more about his importance than a handful of games given arbitrary meaning by fans, especially fans who have been burned by the results of those games.

You can’t win or lose a series in game 1, you can do both in elimination games. Team leaders are expected to lead in those games. He didn’t. Again, expecting your depth players to be the ones producing in late series games is a losing strategy, they’re the ones you’d suspect would have the most issues from late series stresses, and they’re the ones who will be taking their cues from team leaders.

I’m not sure how you’re seriously arguing that the stress on a player in a Game 1 is absolutely no different from an elimination game. Have you never played in one?

 

[Terry Yake]

i really want to know they completely shit the bed two years in a row in game 7s

both the losses to LA and CHI were the same. they didn't even bother showing up and the opponent went up big right away. how do you let that happen two years in a row? the players and the coaches

 

[Static]

You can’t win or lose a series in game 1, you can do both in elimination games. Team leaders are expected to lead in those games. He didn’t. Again, expecting your depth players to be the ones producing in late series games is a losing strategy, they’re the ones you’d suspect would have the most issues from late series stresses, and they’re the ones who will be taking their cues from team leaders.

I’m not sure how you’re seriously arguing that the stress on a player in a Game 1 is absolutely no different from an elimination game. Have you never played in one?

If a player can be assumed to have directly affected a game to the point of influencing the result, does it matter which games he positively and negatively affected? The goal is to get to four wins, the matter in which that is achieved doesn't matter.

Toews is perceived differently because he has produced better in a handful of game 6/7's. It's ironic, because if he had produced better earlier in those series that wouldn't be the case. The production and value would be the same, but the perception would be completely different. The difference is toews had a supporting cast that got him through those games in which he didn't produce (not producing is not the same as not performing). getzlaf wasn't so fortunate, obviously, even if most elimination games are just coin flips.

And get out of here with that intangible stress crap. Don't pretend that you understand how each player psychologically dealt with each game because nobody knows that or even understands how it could have affected performance. I've never, ever seen getzlaf play scared or tight, but I can't pretend to know how he felt either.

 

[Bergey37]

Whether a team has a chance of going home or not has no bearing on "importance". The value of a win or loss doesn't change whether it is in game one or in game seven because the results are weighted the same throughout. The fourth win isn't possible without the first three, so assigning more importance to it is nonsensical.

The entire "clutch" factor is complete and utter BS and more chance than anything else. Getzlaf's full body of playoff work (100+ games is a decent sample size) says more about his importance than a handful of games given arbitrary meaning by fans, especially fans who have been burned by the results of those games.

Well, all you've done here is re-state your own position; you also seem to have misunderstood my position. On the other hand, DavdBL has interpreted my remarks quite properly.

What gives "meaning" or significance to a game? In my view, meaning or significance is very much impacted by the consequences of the outcome, win or lose. In the early games, whether you win or lose means that you get to play again and change the circumstances; in an elimination game, W or L determines when your season ends. In my view, that's pretty significant, and decidedly different from one where the outcome doesn't affect tomorrow.

As for Getzlaf, DavidBL explained my point exactly. I'm not saying that he hasn't been an impactful player in the playoffs; nor am I accusing him of being a choker. But I am suggesting that his performance becomes substandard in those games that "matter" by the definition of significance given above. I ran numbers years ago that back up what many have seen in the "eye-test." As DavidBL pointed out above, there could be a number of reasons for this; but it IS observable and quantifiable.

 

[Static]

Well, all you've done here is re-state your own position; you also seem to have misunderstood my position. On the other hand, DavdBL has interpreted my remarks quite properly.

What gives "meaning" or significance to a game? In my view, meaning or significance is very much impacted by the consequences of the outcome, win or lose. In the early games, whether you win or lose means that you get to play again and change the circumstances; in an elimination game, W or L determines when your season ends. In my view, that's pretty significant, and decidedly different from one where the outcome doesn't affect tomorrow.

As for Getzlaf, DavidBL explained my point exactly. I'm not saying that he hasn't been an impactful player in the playoffs; nor am I accusing him of being a choker. But I am suggesting that his performance becomes substandard in those games that "matter" by the definition of significance given above. I ran numbers years ago that back up what many have seen in the "eye-test." As DavidBL pointed out above, there could be a number of reasons for this; but it IS observable and quantifiable.

I understand what your position is, I just disagree with it.

 

[Bergey37]

I understand what your position is, I just disagree with it.

That’s fine; we’ll just agree to disagree.

 

[Static]

That’s fine; we’ll just agree to disagree.

And that's ok, we can look at it differently and still respect each other's position.

 

[Leonardo87]

Was waking around and wearing one of my Ducks shirt and someone approached me and we were chatting, said they know Getzlaf personally. Said he would consider going to Detroit only for a trade but is also cool retiring a Duck.

Question is if this will be his last year of his career and/or in Anaheim . Unless Anaheim is going to give him a sweet Extension deal think this may be his last year. Also heard he sold his house in CA and moved back to Canada. Could be BS the Detroit thing, but if he goes there then this dude was right. Lol.

I personally hope he retires a Duck. To be with one team in your career is rare, especially in the cap era.

Just speculation but thought it was interesting.

 

[bsu]

Getzlaf is not moving

 

[Paul4587]

I can't think of any reason he would go to Detroit. He's got no ties there, it's not a particularly desirable location and that team is years away from winning. I think the only places he would consider going if he were to move would be the western Canadian teams or another Californian team.

 

[Kalv]

How much you need to love tanking to go to Detroit at the end of the career while you have no ties there?

Getz loves winning and if he have to play on a team below average I think one he have spent his career in and where his wife is from, is a good bet

 

[JonathnTaylorTavares]

Was waking around and wearing one of my Ducks shirt and someone approached me and we were chatting, said they know Getzlaf personally. Said he would consider going to Detroit only for a trade but is also cool retiring a Duck.

Question is if this will be his last year of his career and/or in Anaheim . Unless Anaheim is going to give him a sweet Extension deal think this may be his last year. Also heard he sold his house in CA and moved back to Canada. Could be BS the Detroit thing, but if he goes there then this dude was right. Lol.

I personally hope he retires a Duck. To be with one team in your career is rare, especially in the cap era.

Just speculation but thought it was interesting.

Can confirm he did recently just “move” to Canada. But no idea if it’s his new primary or a seasonal home.

They are also building a house in Lake Arrowhead. So possibly living in Canada full time and having that vacation home here.

 

[Leonardo87]

I can't think of any reason he would go to Detroit. He's got no ties there, it's not a particularly desirable location and that team is years away from winning. I think the only places he would consider going if he were to move would be the western Canadian teams or another Californian team.

Like I said I called BS on it. Detroit is even worse now than Anaheim who I still felt could have made the play in round if not for all the injuries. Want him to retire a Duck and hopefully from what he had said to the media he is truthful to his word.

 

[Bergey37]

Like I said I called BS on it. Detroit is even worse now than Anaheim who I still felt could have made the play in round if not for all the injuries. Want him to retire a Duck and hopefully from what he had said to the media he is truthful to his word.

I think Getz is pretty genuine about wanting to retire a Duck. He HAS put his mansion on the market (asking over $10M) but I do not know if it's sold. Have heard nothing about him moving to Canada.

 

[MCB]

My cat told me he is signing in dallas to play with pears again, but my cat is an asshole and a liar so idk.

 

[Terry Yake]

if you told me getzlaf wanted to be traded to a contender to try and win another cup, i might believe it

but detroit? lol

 

[JabbaJabba]

My cat told me he is signing in dallas to play with pears again, but my cat is an asshole and a liar so idk.

At least you got a talking cat... Or mental health issues.

I don't know why Getz would go to Detroit. Maybe if they were competetive at the moment but they are not.

 

[MCB]

At least you got a talking cat... Or mental health issues.

Little column A, little column B.

 

[kirkm]

Questions for Ducks fans:

How many more years does Getzlaf have left in his career?
How many points do you think he's going to get in the next couple years?
What kind of role will he have moving forward with the team?