Ryan Ellis or Morgan Rielly?

[Michoulicious]

Without taking their contracts in consideration, if you had to choose one of those 2 defensemen for your team, which would you take?

Click to read more...

 

[Deam78]

I prefer Morgan.

 

[DRW204]

Ellis, but not by much

 

[zeke]

2yrs

Ellis (26): 115gms, ES 18:53 (A- qoc), 1.14p/60, 0.80p1/60, 52.1cf% (+1.2), 52.6xgf% (+0.6) / PP 2:12, 3.65p/60, 3.16p1/60 / PK 2:39
Rielly (23): 152gms, ES 18:33 (A qoc), 0.97p/60, 0.75p1/60, 51.3cf% (+1.0), 50.3xgf% (-0.9) / PP 1:35, 7.39p/60, 3.06p1/60 / PK 1:45

pretty close over the last 2yrs, but Rielly's faced tougher comp with less help, and is more on the upswing.

I Go with Mo.

 

[X66]

Rielly, very few top pairing Dmen have had worse partners than him since joining the NHL.

 

[Morgs]

Basically the same level defenseman, and both severley underrated.

Went with Morgan.

 

[triggrman]

There was no "tied" option so I went with bias....




I do think if Ellis didn't have Josi and Subban in front of him he'd put up way more points.

 

[AuraSphere]

Put Rielly on that Nashville D-core and this wouldn't even be close lol

 

[triggrman]

Put Rielly on that Nashville D-core and this wouldn't even be close lol

Because his icetime and numbers would fall and people would see that Ellis is better?

 

[KingTux]

Ah, the famous top 20 list

 

[Volica]

Both really solid top 4 guys.
I actually prefer Reilly on this one, that being said, Ellis is a beast come playoff time it seems (or it just may be my viewings of him).

 

[BonMorrison]

Leafs and Preds are my two teams so I've seen them both enough to think that Ellis is superior.

That said, Rielly is also a god damn gem.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Both top 20 dmen now, slight edge to Rielly and he’s younger so him.

 

[wintersej]

Went Rielly because I think there is more upside left. Two guys on a similar tier.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

2yrs

Ellis (26): 115gms, ES 18:53 (A- qoc), 1.14p/60, 0.80p1/60, 52.1cf% (+1.2), 52.6xgf% (+0.6) / PP 2:12, 3.65p/60, 3.16p1/60 / PK 2:39
Rielly (23): 152gms, ES 18:33 (A qoc), 0.97p/60, 0.75p1/60, 51.3cf% (+1.0), 50.3xgf% (-0.9) / PP 1:35, 7.39p/60, 3.06p1/60 / PK 1:45

pretty close over the last 2yrs, but Rielly's faced tougher comp with less help, and is more on the upswing.

I Go with Mo.

Can always count on Zeke to give Rielly credit for getting abused against tough competition.

Ellis but it's close

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Can always count on Zeke to give Rielly credit for getting abused against tough competition.

Ellis but it's close

he doesn't get abused, so there's that

 

[Maukkis]

Close, but it is very hard to turn down Ellis' point production at 5v5.

 

[slimbob8]

Very close. Both excellent d-men. It's absurd that Ellis may only be the 3rd best d-man on his team though.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Can always count on Zeke to give Rielly credit for getting abused against tough competition.

Ellis but it's close

Where do you get that Rielly was abused in his minutes?

 

[Haatley]

Ellis, not close.

 

[zeke]

Can always count on Zeke to give Rielly credit for getting abused against tough competition.

Ellis but it's close

some players get abused against tough competition, some don't.

Here's the top 10 toughest competition dmen the last 2yrs, and their offensive and possession stats at even strength:

1.Vlasic: .94p/60, .58p1/60, 49.2cf% (-3.3rel), 51.6xgf% (-1.1rel) ------ linemates' cf%: 50.8%
2.Braun: .80p/60, .48p1/60, 47.4cf% (-6.0rel), 50.7xgf% (-2.7rel) ---- linemates' cf%: 54.0%
3.Rielly: .97p/60, .75p1/60, 51.3cf% (+1.0rel), 50.3xgf% (-0.9rel) ----- linemates cf%: 49.7%
4.Keith: .91p/60, .34p1/60, 50.8cf% (-0.8rel), 47.6xgf% (-2.8rel) ------ linemates cf%: 51.5%
5.Letang: 1.0p/60, .37p1/60, 54.3cf% (+4.3rel), 54.3xgf% (+2.1rel) --- linemates cf%: 49.9%
6.Giordano: .92p/60, .52p1/60, 55.3cf% (+5.4rel), 54.5xgf% (+6.2rel) - linemates cf%: 50.9%
7.Dumoulin: .59p/60, .38p1/60, 52.2cf% (+1.8rel), 51.9xgf% (-0.5rel) - linemates cf%: 50.7%
8.Hainsey: .62p/60, .40p1/60, 48.8cf% (-2.3rel), 50.9xgf% (+0.2rel) --- linemates cf%: 50.7%
9.Chara: .92p/60, .59p1/60, 53.5cf% (-1.2rel), 53.9xgf% (-0.3rel) ------ linemates cf%: 54.5%
10.Slavin: .97p/60, .60p1/60, 53.7cf% (+2.4rel), 55.2xgf% (+5.1rel) --- linemates cf%: 51.4%

So not only is Rielly the best offensive producer of the bunch, but he's also either 4th or 5th best possesion wise despite having the weakest teammate support. So yeah, that sure seems like the opposite of being abused. "thriving' would be a more apt descriptor, I think.

You can see that some unsurprising guys do get abused in this usage - like Hainsey and Braun, both of whom are solid dmen, but should never be getting elite usage like this.

and then we can look just at last year:

1.Vlasic: .95p/60, .49p1/60, 49.0cf% (-3.0rel), 51.2xgf% (-1.2rel) ---- linemates cf%: 50.3%
2.Braun: 1.18p/60, .74p1/60, 46.7cf% (-7.0rel), 49.2xgf% (-5.2rel) -- linemates cf%: 54.1%
3.Hainsy: .70p/60, .39p1/60, 48.4cf% (-3.1rel), 49.5xgf% (-2.2rel) -- linemates cf%: 52.0%
4.Schmidt: .85p/60, .53p1/60, 51.0cf% (-0.9rel), 50.1xgf% (-2.4rel) - linemates cf%: 51.1%
5.Yandle: 1.22p/60, .69p1/60, 48.7cf% (-1.3rel), 47.7xgf% (-2.3rel) -- linemates cf%: 51.0%
6.Doughty: 1.01p/60, .61p1/60, 53.0cf% (+4.9rel), 51.2xgf% (+5.3rel) - linemates cf%: 48.7%
7.Rielly: 1.04p/60, .82p1/60, 51.5cf% (+1.8rel), 50.5xgf% (-0.5rel) --- linemates cf%: 49.0%
8.Ekblad: .93p/60, .56p1/60, 48.6cf% (-1.4rel), 47.1xgf% (-3.3rel) ---- linemates cf%: 51.6%
9.Daley: .56p/60, .42p1/60, 46.4cf% (-3.6rel), 46.9xgf% (-3.1rel) ----- linemates cf%: 50.5%
10.Dumoulin: .69p/60, .47p1/60, 53.3cf% (+2.4rel), 53.8xgf% (+2.5rel) - linemates cf%: 51.6%

This one is even more stark - Rielly is still the best offensive producer, but now the clearcut 3rd best possession guy here, despite having the 2nd worst support.

Also, again, you can see the guys who are in way over their heads in this kind of usage - Hainsey, Braun, Daley - solid guys who simply shouldn't be used in this kind of elite usage role.

P.S. Doughty is a fricken beast.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Rielly should be winning this

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Rielly ... Ellis gets lesser competition while playing with better d-men.


Ellis usually plays with Josi or at worst Ekholm, Rielly has never had anyone near Ekholms caliber to play with, and goes up against top competition on a nightly basis.

 

[lomiller1]

Ellis and it isn't close.

 

[Critical13]

some players get abused against tough competition, some don't.

Here's the top 10 toughest competition dmen the last 2yrs, and their offensive and possession stats at even strength:

1.Vlasic: .94p/60, .58p1/60, 49.2cf% (-3.3rel), 51.6xgf% (-1.1rel) ------ linemates' cf%: 50.8%
2.Braun: .80p/60, .48p1/60, 47.4cf% (-6.0rel), 50.7xgf% (-2.7rel) ---- linemates' cf%: 54.0%
3.Rielly: .97p/60, .75p1/60, 51.3cf% (+1.0rel), 50.3xgf% (-0.9rel) ----- linemates cf%: 49.7%
4.Keith: .91p/60, .34p1/60, 50.8cf% (-0.8rel), 47.6xgf% (-2.8rel) ------ linemates cf%: 51.5%
5.Letang: 1.0p/60, .37p1/60, 54.3cf% (+4.3rel), 54.3xgf% (+2.1rel) --- linemates cf%: 49.9%
6.Giordano: .92p/60, .52p1/60, 55.3cf% (+5.4rel), 54.5xgf% (+6.2rel) - linemates cf%: 50.9%
7.Dumoulin: .59p/60, .38p1/60, 52.2cf% (+1.8rel), 51.9xgf% (-0.5rel) - linemates cf%: 50.7%
8.Hainsey: .62p/60, .40p1/60, 48.8cf% (-2.3rel), 50.9xgf% (+0.2rel) --- linemates cf%: 50.7%
9.Chara: .92p/60, .59p1/60, 53.5cf% (-1.2rel), 53.9xgf% (-0.3rel) ------ linemates cf%: 54.5%
10.Slavin: .97p/60, .60p1/60, 53.7cf% (+2.4rel), 55.2xgf% (+5.1rel) --- linemates cf%: 51.4%

So not only is Rielly the best offensive producer of the bunch, but he's also either 4th or 5th best possesion wise despite having the weakest teammate support. So yeah, that sure seems like the opposite of being abused. "thriving' would be a more apt descriptor, I think.

You can see that some unsurprising guys do get abused in this usage - like Hainsey and Braun, both of whom are solid dmen, but should never be getting elite usage like this.

and then we can look just at last year:

1.Vlasic: .95p/60, .49p1/60, 49.0cf% (-3.0rel), 51.2xgf% (-1.2rel) ---- linemates cf%: 50.3%
2.Braun: 1.18p/60, .74p1/60, 46.7cf% (-7.0rel), 49.2xgf% (-5.2rel) -- linemates cf%: 54.1%
3.Hainsy: .70p/60, .39p1/60, 48.4cf% (-3.1rel), 49.5xgf% (-2.2rel) -- linemates cf%: 52.0%
4.Schmidt: .85p/60, .53p1/60, 51.0cf% (-0.9rel), 50.1xgf% (-2.4rel) - linemates cf%: 51.1%
5.Yandle: 1.22p/60, .69p1/60, 48.7cf% (-1.3rel), 47.7xgf% (-2.3rel) -- linemates cf%: 51.0%
6.Doughty: 1.01p/60, .61p1/60, 53.0cf% (+4.9rel), 51.2xgf% (+5.3rel) - linemates cf%: 48.7%
7.Rielly: 1.04p/60, .82p1/60, 51.5cf% (+1.8rel), 50.5xgf% (-0.5rel) --- linemates cf%: 49.0%
8.Ekblad: .93p/60, .56p1/60, 48.6cf% (-1.4rel), 47.1xgf% (-3.3rel) ---- linemates cf%: 51.6%
9.Daley: .56p/60, .42p1/60, 46.4cf% (-3.6rel), 46.9xgf% (-3.1rel) ----- linemates cf%: 50.5%
10.Dumoulin: .69p/60, .47p1/60, 53.3cf% (+2.4rel), 53.8xgf% (+2.5rel) - linemates cf%: 51.6%

This one is even more stark - Rielly is still the best offensive producer, but now the clearcut 3rd best possession guy here, despite having the 2nd worst support.

Also, again, you can see the guys who are in way over their heads in this kind of usage - Hainsey, Braun, Daley - solid guys who simply shouldn't be used in this kind of elite usage role.

P.S. Doughty is a fricken beast.

Did you see Dellow's new article in The Athletic about Morgan and the Leaf's D?

It's a great read!