Ryan Ellis leads the second group in HF's ranking of the Top 50 NHL prospects

[YNWA14]

If Holtby is that high I doubt Lehner makes the list.

 

[Jussi]

Well said. Pulkkinen was ranked in the top 2 with Taylor Hall a year before the draft by some sources.

THN Future Watch in 2009 or 08 listed him in their 2010 Top 6.

 

[Ken McKenna]

I'm aware that this is a late and lame gripe, but what's with the format this year? The club icons were a quick and easy way to scan to your teams prospect, rather than reading most of the article, and each opening line sounds like the call at a race track, "and bursting through on the outside is..."

BOT I like the position of Beck, although risky, he got rave reviews from Pred camp, he and Blake G beasted in a couple rookie games

As was stated in the previous thread, the write-ups that we normally do will still be posted at the Top 50 page after the articles have been posted to the site. This will be done on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[Jebuz]

i'm a *little* surprised to see Ryan Ellis outside of even the top 30, given that while an overager, he's now the highest scoring defenseman in OHL history, and his stock seems to have risen considerably since even being drafted, but my surprise is tempered by my pleasure at the recognition of Taylor Beck, who has put up monster seasons in the OHL back to back, and was one of the last cuts at training camp this year.

He's actually not an overage player this year, he's eligible to play in the OHL again next year as an overager.

 

[nomorekids]

He's actually not an overage player this year, he's eligible to play in the OHL again next year as an overager.

Ah. Well, either way, I think he has a better chance of being in the NHL next year than in the OHL. He had a very, very good camp\preseason last summer, and I think the Preds were a bit frustrated that he was so close to the cutoff for playing in the AHL. I imagine that's where he'll be next season.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

As an avs fan it will be interesting to see where Hishon lands.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

He's actually not an overage player this year, he's eligible to play in the OHL again next year as an overager.

That was his 4th year at the OHL. I don't think he can go back to OHL for another year.

 

[Static]

Can one of the writers explain to me how Justin Shultz doesn't make the list but Jake Gardiner does? I don't understand that.

Anyone? No? Big surprise.

 

[haelwho]

Anyone? No? Big surprise.

We talked about Schultz, so it's not that we just forgot about him altogether. He's in the 51-60 range.

I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I've been impressed with Gardiner's adaptability in particular. He came in as an offense-first guy, was moved to a shutdown role as a sophomore and excelled, and this year thrived in a marquee role. Coachability is a huge attribute to me, particularly for college players. When you look at guys like Jack Johnson, who came to the NHL without much of a defensive game, a player being willing to adapt to a new style of play is crucial for NHL success. That's not to say that Schultz couldn't
or wouldn't excel in switching to a role similar to the one Gardiner played as a sophomore, just that he hasn't proven it.

 

[Static]

We talked about Schultz, so it's not that we just forgot about him altogether. He's in the 51-60 range.

I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I've been impressed with Gardiner's adaptability in particular. He came in as an offense-first guy, was moved to a shutdown role as a sophomore and excelled, and this year thrived in a marquee role. Coachability is a huge attribute to me, particularly for college players. When you look at guys like Jack Johnson, who came to the NHL without much of a defensive game, a player being willing to adapt to a new style of play is crucial for NHL success. That's not to say that Schultz couldn't
or wouldn't excel in switching to a role similar to the one Gardiner played as a sophomore, just that he hasn't proven it.

I appreciate the response. It's just strange when by most accounts a younger player outplays the older player and the older player is deemed to have "more potential". Obviously nobody here has a crystal ball, and it was Shultz's coming out party of sorts, but it's hard for Ducks' fans to take when yet another of its prospects moves on to a bigger team and seems to get more attention.

 

[Bjorn Le]

That was his 4th year at the OHL. I don't think he can go back to OHL for another year.

For normally drafted players you can have a max of 5 years in the OHL. He could come back but hes in the AHL if hes not in the NHL.

 

[airforceones25]

Anyone? No? Big surprise.

It's alright. HF staff is no different from anyone of us. Just people making their own assumptions. Big market > small marker that's all you need to know!

 

[Nasty Nazem]

I appreciate the response. It's just strange when by most accounts a younger player outplays the older player and the older player is deemed to have "more potential". Obviously nobody here has a crystal ball, and it was Shultz's coming out party of sorts, but it's hard for Ducks' fans to take when yet another of its prospects moves on to a bigger team and seems to get more attention.

I know it's probably not a big difference but I think Gardiner being a 1st round pick might give him a slight advantage. Gardiner is also going pro so he may be a little closer to NHL than Shultz.

Shultz is a guy I would have in the top 50, he's had a great year and does everything well (his defensive game has improved as well) but if he's on the bubble then it's probably not a big deal.

It would be awesome if HF could expand their list to top 75 but obviously I'm not the one to do the write-up so...

 

[Afro Thunder*]

Can't believe Ottawa passed on Pulkinnen just to pick up Culek.

 

[wedge]

does it mean that the Red Wings have 4 prospects in the top 30? Usually, these rankings follow the team rankings. And seeing Gustav Nyquist and Jan Mursak in the top 30 is pushing it.

 

[airforceones25]

I know it's probably not a big difference but I think Gardiner being a 1st round pick might give him a slight advantage. Gardiner is also going pro so he may be a little closer to NHL than Shultz.

Shultz is a guy I would have in the top 50, he's had a great year and does everything well (his defensive game has improved as well) but if he's on the bubble then it's probably not a big deal.

It would be awesome if HF could expand their list to top 75 but obviously I'm not the one to do the write-up so...

I think it's more or less his disdain with the writers lack of respect towards Anaheim prospects in general. We have seen this happen before with Tangradi. As soon as Anaheim parts w/ their prospects they start showing up on these lists when they should've all along. We believe Gardiner is going to be a great defenseman and we were upset to see him go but I find it miraculous that as soon as he's traded he makes huge strides in the writers eyes. Then we he gets completely outplayed by a younger teammate(Schultz) as a sophmore being nominated for the Hobey Baker award and makes the list but Schultz can't even crack the list is frustrating to some.

It seems more or less that the bigger markets get premium attention(obvious) but as a writer/insider you would think as a specialist you would pay more attention on be biased. Obviously if you have a sure fire guy like Cam Fowler per say he will make any list but when it comes down to being Tangradi/Gardiner/Schultz they attention is not given it seems..

This is the feeling of Anaheim and other small market teams' fan's suggestions...IMO

EDIT: To your point of being were they are drafted is weak IMO... Just because a player is taken in the 1st round shouldn't suggest their potential is better. Pulkkinen is an example (makes the list as a 4th rounder) however he does fall into the market bias.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Hmm...so I'm guessing...no Poulin, no Rahkshani, no de Haan from NYI POV? Only Nino somewhere in the top 10.

 

[TatarSouce21*]

does it mean that the Red Wings have 4 prospects in the top 30? Usually, these rankings follow the team rankings. And seeing Gustav Nyquist and Jan Mursak in the top 30 is pushing it.

Mursak definitely shouldn't be top 30. He's NHL ready, but doesn't have a high ceiling. Nyquist is a different story though. He absolutely is top 30 caliber.

 

[haelwho]

I think it's more or less his disdain with the writers lack of respect towards Anaheim prospects in general. We have seen this happen before with Tangradi. As soon as Anaheim parts w/ their prospects they start showing up on these lists when they should've all along. We believe Gardiner is going to be a great defenseman and we were upset to see him go but I find it miraculous that as soon as he's traded he makes huge strides in the writers eyes. Then we he gets completely outplayed by a younger teammate(Schultz) as a sophmore being nominated for the Hobey Baker award and makes the list but Schultz can't even crack the list is frustrating to some.

It seems more or less that the bigger markets get premium attention(obvious) but as a writer/insider you would think as a specialist you would pay more attention on be biased. Obviously if you have a sure fire guy like Cam Fowler per say he will make any list but when it comes down to being Tangradi/Gardiner/Schultz they attention is not given it seems..

This is the feeling of Anaheim and other small market teams' fan's suggestions...IMO

EDIT: To your point of being were they are drafted is weak IMO... Just because a player is taken in the 1st round shouldn't suggest their potential is better. Pulkkinen is an example (makes the list as a 4th rounder) however he does fall into the market bias.

Nashville is arguably a bottom five market in the NHL and they're almost always well-represented on our lists and highly-ranked in the organizational rankings. I think you're reading into this a little too much. Gardiner and Tangradi were both traded in the midst of breakout seasons, which has a lot more to do with their recognition than the market size of the teams they were dealt to.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

I think it's more or less his disdain with the writers lack of respect towards Anaheim prospects in general. We have seen this happen before with Tangradi. As soon as Anaheim parts w/ their prospects they start showing up on these lists when they should've all along. We believe Gardiner is going to be a great defenseman and we were upset to see him go but I find it miraculous that as soon as he's traded he makes huge strides in the writers eyes. Then we he gets completely outplayed by a younger teammate(Schultz) as a sophmore being nominated for the Hobey Baker award and makes the list but Schultz can't even crack the list is frustrating to some.

It seems more or less that the bigger markets get premium attention(obvious) but as a writer/insider you would think as a specialist you would pay more attention on be biased. Obviously if you have a sure fire guy like Cam Fowler per say he will make any list but when it comes down to being Tangradi/Gardiner/Schultz they attention is not given it seems..

This is the feeling of Anaheim and other small market teams' fan's suggestions...IMO

EDIT: To your point of being were they are drafted is weak IMO... Just because a player is taken in the 1st round shouldn't suggest their potential is better. Pulkkinen is an example (makes the list as a 4th rounder) however he does fall into the market bias.

Gardiner was still rated 8.0C earlier when he was with the Ducks. That grade hasn't changed but he's climbed a little higher because he's had a breakout season and it helps a lot of prospects have graduated. He is probably not on the list come next season after the draft.

I was merely suggesting the draft position could be a difference and I said it could be a slight advantage. I wouldn't know because I didn't write it.

I don't think writers write these lists with the "giving the advantage to big market teams" mindset. Maybe it happens because usually from small market teams, they aren't talked about as much. For example: When Gardiner was with the Ducks, I don't think THN wrote any article about him. He gets traded to Toronto and all of a sudden there is an article about him (albeit negatively). I guess what I am trying to say is prospects in big market teams are more well known because they are often talked about whether that's in their own board or prospect board etc...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nashville is arguably a bottom five market in the NHL and they're almost always well-represented on our lists and highly-ranked in the organizational rankings. I think you're reading into this a little too much. Gardiner and Tangradi were both traded in the midst of breakout seasons, which has a lot more to do with their recognition than the market size of the teams they were dealt to.

Exactly. People can put down the conspiracy pipe.

 

[airforceones25]

Exactly. People can put down the conspiracy pipe.

The reason this is brought up is for the fact of Schultz being snubbed after he clearly outplayed Jake.

However, the writer claims its has to deal w/ how well he transitioned from coming in as an offensive defenseman thne being asked to play a more defensive game last year and back to a more offensive brand and how well he was able to transition at it. The truth comes out now. Last year all they would talk about is how much of a disappointment it was because he wasn't producing offensive numbers. However they UW coaching staff wanted him to tone it back and focus on defense. Now he is praised one year later on how well he "transitions" as apposed to Anaheim were he was becoming a disappointment.

Meanwhile Schultz outplays him both years and isn't good enough to crack the list. He's the WCHA defensive player of the year(1st sophomore to ever win) and a Hobey Baker finalist.

As for Tangradi and his "breakout" he already had the stats prior to the trade to Pitt.

It all boils down to people's opinions. I'm not trying to be critical or judge the writer's work. I'm just speaking on the behalf of most Anaheim fans and the views on the small market bias. I personally could careless because one person's write up doesn't negatively affect how a prospect will turn out. It just more or less gives other's something to whine about.

 

[RipCityPuckers]

who gives a christ? these are rankings, opinions of people on here.....its an article for entertainment. Nothing is set in stone, some people are talking about these rankings like they are the be all end all of who will be good at the next level.....If Schultz really is the better player I guess we'll see in 3-5+ years.

 

[flamebird]

who gives a christ? these are rankings, opinions of people on here.....its an article for entertainment. Nothing is set in stone, some people are talking about these rankings like they are the be all end all of who will be good at the next level.....If Schultz really is the better player I guess we'll see in 3-5+ years.

The point of a forum is for people to give their opinions...
That being said, pulkkinen, beck, and Ellis probably should be in the top 30

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Exactly. People can put down the conspiracy pipe.

But...it's a fun pipe!