RW Vitaly Kravtsov (2018, 9th, NYR; traded to VAN) Part2

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I thought this is a good point brought up by Nigel Dawes in his interview when he was asked about Kravtsov.

How many of those "hur-dur he has to prove it because NHL and because reasons" posters would agree to get ****ty treatment (even if it's by "entitled kids'" standards) in an unfamiliar environment by getting more or less as much as he has to spend while he can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, possibly more than his whole family makes in 10 years, while getting minutes with the team he knows and likes.

By picking someone #9 overall in the draft you are entitling them to get special treatment. Furthermore, he isn't a spoiled child, he is a professional hockey player who could make serious money at home being asked to play for peanuts in the AHL. Some of the fans can ride their high-horse all they want but I wonder if they have ever been in a situation where they chose 10 times lower salary just due to some trivial reasons.

You have some good points I agree with but surrounded them with hostility and a few really strange things that don't match up with reality. No he does not get entitled to special treatment bc he was 9th overall. That's just really weird to say. "Shitty treatment in an unfamiliar environment"? He went through a normal camp and didn't have what it takes. That's not shitty treatment. Again that's really weird to say. I imagine you complaining bc I quoted you once a few weeks back and then twice today but you really shouldn't. You're a loud, often combative presence in elite Russian player threads and I like observing the quirks and habits of loud posters.

Now I do agree witj some of what you said. VK going back to grow more, get more practice, get more game time and make more money? That is perfectly reasonable for VK to do.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You have some good points I agree with but surrounded them with hostility and a few really strange things that don't match up with reality. No he does not get entitled to special treatment bc he was 9th overall. That's just really weird to say. "****ty treatment in an unfamiliar environment"? He went through a normal camp and didn't have what it takes. That's not ****ty treatment. Again that's really weird to say. I imagine you complaining bc I quoted you once a few weeks back and then twice today but you really shouldn't. You're a loud, often combative presence in elite Russian player threads and I like observing the quirks and habits of loud posters.

I have answered to you in the "Traktor fan protest" thread regarding this, why would I complain about someone answering me on a discussion board. I, for one, am here to discuss things so why would there ever be something wrong with someone quoting me. And, just like I said there, I don't really see what would one get out of being quiet, calming presence on a discussion board. Unless you treat it as an info source in which case there is no point to read 80% of threads here at all. The only thing I have a slight issue with is that you have mentioned "strange/weird things" multiple times now and never really told what those are.

Regarding Kravtsov, putting him in the bottom 6 of your AHL farm does not look good. You may not think it's bad treatment but obviously he wasn't put into the position to succeed and almost any player will have an issue with it. Especially one, who sacrificed his financial gains just to be there. And I think the fact he had a clause letting him go back to the KHL not only entitled him to the special treatment, he actually received it.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I have answered to you in the "Traktor fan protest" thread regarding this, why would I complain about someone answering me on a discussion board. I, for one, am here to discuss things so why would there ever be something wrong with someone quoting me. And, just like I said there, I don't really see what would one get out of being quiet, calming presence on a discussion board. Unless you treat it as an info source in which case there is no point to read 80% of threads here at all. The only thing I have a slight issue with is that you have mentioned "strange/weird things" multiple times now and never really told what those are.

Regarding Kravtsov, putting him in the bottom 6 of your AHL farm does not look good. You may not think it's bad treatment but obviously he wasn't put into the position to succeed and almost any player will have an issue with it. Especially one, who sacrificed his financial gains just to be there. And I think the fact he had a clause letting him go back to the KHL not only entitled him to the special treatment, he actually received it.

. I responded to what you said here in this thread just as I did then. You don't have to change. I just can't help noticing what's written and how it's written

It's not bad treatment if he simply wasn't good enough and wasn't putting in the work off ice to get better. We don't know hence why it's weird for you to definitely say it's mistreatment as if it was proven. There's one example. You do that kind of thing a lot and it's weird to me.

Before you said he was treated badly. Now you say he got special treatment. It's possible he got both. you don't know for sure

A European escape clause really isnt that special too

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

This isn’t the same kravtsov whose grandpa killed multiple Slovaks during the invasion in 68, is it? This name is triggering, even if it’s not his grandpa

 

[EdJovanovski]

This isn’t the same kravtsov whose grandpa killed multiple Slovaks during the invasion in 68, is it? This name is triggering, even if it’s not his grandpa

Well his dad was an officer in the Soviet Army so he’s barred from the US and couldn’t see him get Drafted

 

[SoundAndFury]

It's not bad treatment if he simply wasn't good enough and wasn't putting in the work off ice to get better. We don't know hence why it's weird for you to definitely say it's mistreatment as if it was proven. There's one example. You do that kind of thing a lot and it's weird to me.

Before you said he was treated badly. Now you say he got special treatment. It's possible he got both. you don't know for sure

You can get the special treatment by upper management (which is what happened) and be treated poorly by coaches/lower management, which is also something that appeared to have happened. There is no contradiction in it. At least Rangers' upper management was understanding enough to give Kravtsov that clause to begin with and not make a huge deal out of him exercising it.

We do know he was played in a bottom-6 role in Hartford and you may not look at it as mistreatment, he was not good enough or whatever but you are looking at it from the team's perspective. If you look at it from the player's perspective this is definitely not what he expected and no high pedigree prospect would be happy about such a situation. Especially when there is a team in his home country playing at the same level prepared to give him a big role and 10x more money.

This isn’t the same kravtsov whose grandpa killed multiple Slovaks during the invasion in 68, is it? This name is triggering, even if it’s not his grandpa

It's a pretty popular surname so unlikely.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You can get the special treatment by upper management (which is what happened) and be treated poorly by coaches/lower management, which is also something that appeared to have happened. There is no contradiction in it. At least Rangers' upper management was understanding enough to give Kravtsov that clause to begin with and not make a huge deal out of him exercising it.

We do know he was played in a bottom-6 role in Hartford and you may not look at it as mistreatment, he was not good enough or whatever but you are looking at it from the team's perspective. If you look at it from the player's perspective this is definitely not what he expected and no high pedigree prospect would be happy about such a situation. Especially when there is a team in his home country playing at the same level prepared to give him a big role and 10x more money.



It's a pretty popular surname so unlikely.

He was played in a top 6 role, but like in any league, he played so poorly that his minutes were often cut due to the flow of the game, and he also was benched for a game. He had 2 shots in 5 games. I don't see any contradiction with giving him a top 6 role to start, but not giving him top 6 minutes because he wasn't earning them.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

You can get the special treatment by upper management (which is what happened) and be treated poorly by coaches/lower management, which is also something that appeared to have happened. There is no contradiction in it. At least Rangers' upper management was understanding enough to give Kravtsov that clause to begin with and not make a huge deal out of him exercising it.

We do know he was played in a bottom-6 role in Hartford and you may not look at it as mistreatment, he was not good enough or whatever but you are looking at it from the team's perspective. If you look at it from the player's perspective this is definitely not what he expected and no high pedigree prospect would be happy about such a situation. Especially when there is a team in his home country playing at the same level prepared to give him a big role and 10x more money.



It's a pretty popular surname so unlikely.

You asked for examples sooo.

I already acknowledged the possibility that he got bad treatment and special treatment. It is weird for you to explain how it's possible bc it makes it look like you are pretending I didn't acknowledge it. Like I said you do not know for sure. I dont see a bottom 6 role as mistreatment bc it isn't if you deserve that and aren't putting in the work. We dont know for sure so again...weird for you to be definitive. Your pedigree talk is silly. It does not reflect reality so it too is weird

 

[SoundAndFury]

Your pedigree talk is silly. It does not reflect reality so it too is weird

Now that's just wrong. There were talks in Russia that SKA should buy Kravtsov's rights in case Traktor can't afford him so even if pedigree doesn't mean much to you being labeled the golden boy of your generation in Russia at very least doubles amount of money you can earn.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Now that's just wrong. There were talks in Russia that SKA should buy Kravtsov's rights in case Traktor can't afford him so even if pedigree doesn't mean much to you being labeled the golden boy of your generation in Russia at very least doubles amount of money you can earn.

Reality disagrees with you. Go argue with how countless top 15 picks are handled (successfully I might add) by the majority of nhl teams for the majority of the league's existence. Just like how you seem to exaggerate the quality of the khl you also seem to be exaggerating the special pedigree afforded a 9th overall pick. I think you are allowing your bias to color your conclusions

Note I am not saying every nhl team is right I am saying they do not afford prospects the amount of special privileges that you seem to think they do. You can disagree, that is fine.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Reality disagrees with you. Go argue with how countless top 15 picks are handled (successfully I might add) by the majority of nhl teams for the majority of the league's existence. Just like how you seem to exaggerate the quality of the khl you also seem to be exaggerating the special pedigree afforded a 9th overall pick. I think you are allowing your bias to color your conclusions

I am talking about Russian prospects here, what do the Canadian boys drafted out of the CHL have to do with my point? It all originated around the idea Dawes brought up, about Russian (to lesser extend European) prospects having to leave a lot of money on the table to play in the AHL. Reality agrees with me, they all have leverage. Nichushkin bullied his way onto NHL roster as an 18 y.o. playing the Russia card, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov didn't have to play in the AHL and were allowed to stay until they are ready. What am I missing? Guryanov went to the AHL but he was Lada prospect and not very highly-rated in Russia.

And there definitely is a difference from the GM's perspective if you spend a #9 pick on the player or #25, that's how the whole "Russian factor" concept came to be in the first place.

I have no idea where have I exaggerate about the quality of the KHL either. Where and when was such occasion? What was that I said about it exactly? All this "bias" nonsense is really going pretty overboard.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Sent down to the VHL... How to go from Rangers to Chelmet in a couple of months, ask Vitaly Kravtsov.

 

[gwh]

Sent down to the VHL... How to go from Rangers to Chelmet in a couple of months, ask Vitaly Kravtsov.

It is a game break in the KHL isn't it? Maybe they just want more games on his schedule?

 

[Melkor]

Some in North America have thought this guy is better than Cherepanov. Crazy.

 

[Kshahdoo]

It is a game break in the KHL isn't it? Maybe they just want more games on his schedule?

Yeah, it's possible, but still he didn't look that great. I think, if he was ok, they wouldn't have sent him down.

 

[5cotland]

Traktor recently changed head coach and apparently the new coach to Vladimir Yurzinov Jr. is quite 'biased' towards the older and more experienced players.

Traktor has been a very terrible team this season and they lost a lot of their better players over the summer as well.

Kravtsov has not been playing well but with this new coach, it is going to make it even more difficult for him to be given a fair chance this season.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Traktor recently changed head coach and apparently the new coach to Vladimir Yurzinov Jr. is quite 'biased' towards the older and more experienced players.

Traktor has been a very terrible team this season and they lost a lot of their better players over the summer as well.

Kravtsov has not been playing well but with this new coach, it is going to make it even more difficult for him to be given a fair chance this season.

Is there any evidence Yurzinov has anything against younger players? Vasilevsky became SYu's starting goalie under him, Slepyshev had a breakout season, Sibir was a young team in general with some young Ds playing major roles (albeit he coached them quite briefly). Kravtsov himself played over 19 minutes in some games under him so where is this coming from? Just because he scratched Kravtsov for a game?

Secondly, Traktor didn't lose anyone worth mentioning, they have dramatically improved compared to last season's team and were supposed to be a strong mid-table team (5th-6th place in the East). What did them in the most is Demchenko having .908 Sv% while he is .932 over last 3 seasons and even his unproven backup is .934 this year. Combined with a tough schedule, a lot of injuries and wrong choice as their coach they never recovered. Nothing to do with their losses in the summer.

Again, Kravtsov did get a fair chance in quite a lot of games it's just that he blew it and will now have to wait for another one.

It is a game break in the KHL isn't it? Maybe they just want more games on his schedule?

Traktor still have a game tomorrow. He also played 1 shift in their previous 2 games before being sent down. But sure they probably want him to play in the VHL to build some confidence during the international break.

 

[Zine]

Traktor recently changed head coach and apparently the new coach to Vladimir Yurzinov Jr. is quite 'biased' towards the older and more experienced players.

Traktor has been a very terrible team this season and they lost a lot of their better players over the summer as well.

Kravtsov has not been playing well but with this new coach, it is going to make it even more difficult for him to be given a fair chance this season.

Come again?

Kravtsov was initially among the leaders (forwards) in ice time for Yurzinov. He did nothing with the opportunity other than give a shitty effort. As such his responsibilities have been reduced, during which time Traktor has played .500 hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don’t think it has anything to do with a break in games. He was the 13th forward last game. He’s not in favor right now with the coaching staff.

The problem is that he forced his way back to the KHL, and now isn’t playing well. Worse than last season. He had the attitude problems in Hartford, and the team obliged his request to try to get him comfortable and developing well again. It’s not going to ingratiate him with Rangers management that he went back to Russia and is playing worse than last season. That could be bad form or it could be that he’s still pouting about the Hartford debacle back in Russia. It’s hard to know, but he’s trending down.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Looks like dark horse for Calder wasn't super realistic.

 

[Atas2000]

I don’t think it has anything to do with a break in games. He was the 13th forward last game. He’s not in favor right now with the coaching staff.

The problem is that he forced his way back to the KHL, and now isn’t playing well. Worse than last season. He had the attitude problems in Hartford, and the team obliged his request to try to get him comfortable and developing well again. It’s not going to ingratiate him with Rangers management that he went back to Russia and is playing worse than last season. That could be bad form or it could be that he’s still pouting about the Hartford debacle back in Russia. It’s hard to know, but he’s trending down.

Latest is he is being shopped around by Traktor. Whether it's his asking or Traktor willing to get rid of him I don't know for now.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Latest is he is being shopped around by Traktor. Whether it's his asking or Traktor willing to get rid of him I don't know for now.

That was an unconfirmed rumor last I heard.

 

[mm11]

ooooof, rough season for the kid obviously. Have to think the ranger brass will have eyes on how he responds

 

[Crease]

Whole heck of a lot of speculation about the why, but the bottom line is that he's not having a good prospect season. Didn't make the NHL. Didn't produce in the AHL. And now not producing in the KHL.

 

[The Sweetness]

Has any prospect had a worse start to the season in relation to expectations?

Maybe Boldy in terms of straight up production?