RW Vitaly Kravtsov (2018, 9th, NYR; traded to VAN) Part2

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Last time I agreed with you, now I can not agree with bold part.

Of course, he was forced by the NYR to sign as soon as possible. They even wanted to sign him during KHL playoffs. Knowing this, NYR GM contacted him in any form while Kravtsov had valid KHL contract. Such behaviour by GM is forbidden.

According to IIHF rules and KHL-NHL MoU, a club can not be in touch with a player who has a valid contract with another team in another league. If such a team is interested in a player, that club needs to contact his team, not the player directly!

Talking about the KHL players, the NHL teams can contact them in the period from May to August (if a player is not signed for another season). But they are doing it during the season as well! They are still coming to Moscow to meet with Kaprizov etc.

I have no problem if a player wishes to sign in the NHL. But there need to be rules, first - contact the KHL club if the club wants to release a player, second your NHL team needs to agree to a transfer fee with KHL club and, finally, then your NHL club can contact directly the player and sign a deal.

I'm not going to say that I know the particulars of the situation. I don't know for sure whether Kravtsov or the team initiated his signing. You mention that the GM tampered with his KHL contract, but he was saying while he had a KHL contract that he wanted to play in the NHL the following season. Thats unusual to hear. Did the team tell him that they wanted him to do that and he complied or did he tell the team he wanted to play for the team as soon as possible and thy went along? We don't know. The one who initiated that deserves blame.

 

[vorky]

I'm not going to say that I know the particulars of the situation. I don't know for sure whether Kravtsov or the team initiated his signing. You mention that the GM tampered with his KHL contract, but he was saying while he had a KHL contract that he wanted to play in the NHL the following season. Thats unusual to hear. Did the team tell him that they wanted him to do that and he complied or did he tell the team he wanted to play for the team as soon as possible and thy went along? We don't know. The one who initiated that deserves blame.

Of course, neither of us is the NYR GM. But we both have followed hockey for many years. Right?

So, if your NHL GM contacts a prospect multiple times a season, every off-season, for a few years (while a player has KHL deal), he has been making pressure on that player. Using other words, directly or indirectly he forces the player to sign in the NHL. Other Europeans are in the same position.

Once again, nothing wrong with wanting to sign in the NHL. But the habits of NHL GMs and their methods are unacceptable for me. The NHL GMs do not even try to ask the European clubs (when a prospect has a deal) to negotiate a transfer fee for a prospect, but they (GMs) directly contact a prospect. Of course, the result of such behaviour is that a prospect says what he says...

again, the correct behaviour of the NHL GMs should be:

1.contact a European club, negotiate a transfer fee for a prospect
2.singing the prospect to NHL deal

 

[Kshahdoo]

Of course, neither of us is the NYR GM. But we both have followed hockey for many years. Right?

So, if your NHL GM contacts a prospect multiple times a season, every off-season, for a few years (while a player has KHL deal), he has been making pressure on that player. Using other words, directly or indirectly he forces the player to sign in the NHL. Other Europeans are in the same position.

Once again, nothing wrong with wanting to sign in the NHL. But the habits of NHL GMs and their methods are unacceptable for me. The NHL GMs do not even try to ask the European clubs (when a prospect has a deal) to negotiate a transfer fee for a prospect, but they (GMs) directly contact a prospect. Of course, the result of such behaviour is that a prospect says what he says...

again, the correct behaviour of the NHL GMs should be:

1.contact a European club, negotiate a transfer fee for a prospect
2.singing the prospect to NHL deal

They can't, though, it's against the league's rules.

 

[tomobson]

A young russian kid has to be forced by GM JG to sign with the new york rangers? Come on now. This rangers team is in a midst of a rebuild and kravtsov saw a chance to possibly have a spot with a team that is lacking in skill and is up against the cap and took his shot. If the rangers weren't already so young he probably would have made the team, but you can't field a team of rookies without expecting to end up like the oilers.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A young russian kid has to be forced by GM JG to sign with the new york rangers? Come on now. This rangers team is in a midst of a rebuild and kravtsov saw a chance to possibly have a spot with a team that is lacking in skill and is up against the cap and took his shot. If the rangers weren't already so young he probably would have made the team, but you can't field a team of rookies without expecting to end up like the oilers.

The team isn't that young. He was given every chance to earn a spot, and didn't play well enough. Forget well enough, he didn't even play well.

 

[tomobson]

The team isn't that young. He was given every chance to earn a spot, and didn't play well enough. Forget well enough, he didn't even play well.

I'm more responding to the fact that tampering had to be done by the rangers to get this kid to sign, especially with the state the rangers are in now. But I'm also not sure how much younger you would want this team to get?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The team isn't that young. He was given every chance to earn a spot, and didn't play well enough. Forget well enough, he didn't even play well.

LoL Wut?

Ranger's are the 2nd youngest NHL team, but "the team isn't that young"

Never change Pavel, never change.

 

[bigdog16]

LoL Wut?

Ranger's are the 2nd youngest NHL team, but "the team isn't that young"

Never change Pavel, never change.

Whos younger? EP has them as the youngest

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Whos younger? EP has them as the youngest

The Atlantic had the 4 youngest teams at the start of the season as:

Avs, Rangers, Jackets and Canes.

 

[bigdog16]

The Atlantic had the 4 youngest teams at the start of the season as:

Avs, Rangers, Jackets and Canes.

Gotcha. The addition of Chytil and Lindgren must have put that as the youngest.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

How is it possible for Kravtsov to sign in the KHL while still holding a NHL contract? I understand what the euro assignment clause is but I thought that could not apply to NHL/KHL as there’s no transfer agreement. Am I missing something here?

CBA 11.19 Loan to Clubs Outside North America. The SPC of any Player may contain a clause that provides that, in the event his NHL Club Loans the Player to a club outside the NHL, during the period of such Loan, the Player shall have the option to be Loaned to a club of his choice outside North America. The clause may relieve the NHL Club of the obligation to pay the Player his Paragraph 1 Salary for the duration of such Loan if such relief is expressly stated in the provision, but the NHL Club shall otherwise be responsible for all other payments due to the Player by the NHL Club pursuant to his SPC. Such clause shall be subject to any applicable Player Transfer Agreement between the NHL and a hockey federation and/or the IIHF in effect, at the time of the Loan. The Player shall be permitted to make financial arrangements for compensation and other benefits with the club outside North America for the duration of the Loan, which financial compensation and benefits shall not be included in Averaged Club Salary, Actual Club Salary, League-wide Player Compensation or the Players' Share. The Club shall be required to provide to the NHL and the NHLPA in accordance with Exhibit 3 any loan agreement entered into in relation to such Loan by no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time on the day following the day the Club has received the executed loan agreement.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Kravtsov won't be handed anything with Traktor, there isn't a more demanding coach than Skudra.
However, due to the KHL style, he'll be allowed to play to his strengths more so than in the AHL; which is better for his development at this point.

His development at this point is hitting the gym and putting on muscle mass.

Playing every 2-3 days with international breaks is not optimal. Having 4 days in the week at the gym with games on the weekend is better.

 

[wings5]

His development at this point is hitting the gym and putting on muscle mass.

Playing every 2-3 days with international breaks is not optimal. Having 4 days in the week at the gym with games on the weekend is better.

Yes he physically isn't ready for NA pro hockey right now. His focus on building muscle should be more for the coming offseason its hard to put good mass on during the season. This season should have been spent in an ideal environment ( Russia ) developing his skills since he isn't ready. At least now he knows, it is not a lost season at this point imo.

 

[bl02]

From one of the box scores online it seems like he is playing and on the first line. Hopefully he can get stronger and build up his confidence and get back to North America next year.

 

[Kshahdoo]

From one of the box scores online it seems like he is playing and on the first line. Hopefully he can get stronger and build up his confidence and get back to North America next year.

He's jetlagging right now, hard to expect anything great from him.

 

[Atas2000]

Learn what's overreaction actually is first, then go back and watch how Buchnevich looked at his age and you'll get the point.

You draw comparisons to a guy who is way older and is an established player. That's an overreaction over a teenager who hasn't made the NHL out of the gate.

And don't tell me how Buchnevich looked back then. Way more raw and less suited for the NA game.

 

[Atas2000]

I'd disagree with the Gusev statement. And I resoundingly disagreed with the summer sentiment that Gusev would be a great nhl player. He's been a 3rd line winger for me. I do think Hynes is a bad coach, and I also have said I do not like Quinn as a head coach. Numerous times last season I called him out with how he handled some of the younger players like Chytil.

That being said I think Kravtsov is obviously not ready. That we can agree on. BUT, I think what he's not ready on are the things he'd learn in NA. I don't think he'll work on these things Traktor. But we'll see.

Kravtsov does not need to work on things for NA. He needs to work on his brain(to not make those stupid decisions again) and his personal game, grow as a player rather than try adopting some style.

And Gusev is far more than a 3rd liner. Once again we see how bad coaching can make players look worse that they are. Remember all the Ovechkin critisizm during the dark ages before Trotz?

 

[Melkor]

You draw comparisons to a guy who is way older and is an established player. That's an overreaction over a teenager who hasn't made the NHL out of the gate.

And don't tell me how Buchnevich looked back then. Way more raw and less suited for the NA game.

Not true but whatever floats your boat.

 

[haveandare]

My main concern with him back in the KHL is that he seemed to look pretty well skilled already - good skating, great hands, solid shot.

What he needed was to get used to the time and space in NA style hockey and learn how to effectively pick and choose his spots when it comes to making moves on offense. Also needed to improve general puck pursuit and tenacity on D, though he showed that a good bit in the KHL last year.

Can he learn those things in the KHL this year? I'm not sure. I don't think it's too outlandish to suggest that the best way to learn how to translate his game to NA would have been to play in NA.

Having said all of that, Hartford treated him pretty stupidly imo. He's obviously above being a healthy scratch or fourth liner at the AHL level. He's a first liner in the KHL which is different but not decidedly a worse league. Some of his treatment in Hartford was probably a result of a new coaching staff trying to establish credibility with the players by starting everyone with blank slates, but still, it's understandable that he'd be pretty upset about the way they treated him.

Nobody is really innocent in this IMO, but the bottom line is I think he'd have been better served sticking it out in Hartford from a development standpoint.

 

[EXTRAS]

I know he had an unimpressive...5 games? But from what I've seen of him I believe he has a high end around rantanen if he hits his upside. (Despite what people are taking from a silly 5 game stint)

 

[Atas2000]

Not true but whatever floats your boat.

You know, I know what I saw. You could even dig up some of my posts from that time.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I know he had an unimpressive...5 games? But from what I've seen of him I believe he has a high end around rantanen if he hits his upside. (Despite what people are taking from a silly 5 game stint)

from his interviews in Russia it seems like he was really homesick. If he had stayed with the Rangers i think he would have been fine but being sent down to Hartford he couldn't handle it. He at least knew some of the guys on the Rangers and had some support. Hopefully another year to mature both as a hockey player and a person and he comes back next year stronger. A KHL -drafted product coming over after only one year is pretty rare to begin with.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

from his interviews in Russia it seems like he was really homesick. If he had stayed with the Rangers i think he would have been fine but being sent down to Hartford he couldn't handle it. He at least knew some of the guys on the Rangers and had some support. Hopefully another year to mature both as a hockey player and a person and he comes back next year stronger. A KHL -drafted product coming over after only one year is pretty rare to begin with.

Which guys on the Rangers did he know? He probably knew more of the Hartford guys.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Matz03]

Hopefully he has a really solid offensive year with Traktor, gets recalled when their season ends which coincides somewhat with trade deadline, we’ll have some new spots at forward then. Get him into a few nhl games then, maybe even have him go to Hartford after if they’re in the playoff picture to end the year. That would be a really good development year if all can materialize.