RW Vitaly Kravtsov (2018, 9th, NYR; traded to VAN) Part2

[SoundAndFury]

he plays on a defensive minded team that is probably the best defensive team in the KHL

I think Loko has something to say about that.

But otherwise, yeah, he's just cold and should bounce back. Having said that, I think it was pretty silly of him to sign with the Rangers as soon as he did. It's obvious now he will challenge for the NHL spot in 2022, not 2019.

 

[bl02]

I think Loko has something to say about that.

But otherwise, yeah, he's just cold and should bounce back. Having said that, I think it was pretty silly of him to sign with the Rangers as soon as he did. It's obvious now he will challenge for the NHL spot in 2022, not 2019.

for sure he needs to stay in KHL entire year and I would even keep him there next year all things being equal.
Plus there is no need to rush him IMO

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Any improvements in his defensive game and overall strength is good, but Kravtsov needs to score. I agree with people saying he’s on a cold streak, so he doesn’t need to be judged too harshly, but I don’t see .5PPG at this point as what we should be expecting of a top 10 pick. If this is the rate he’s scoring at when the season ends, it’s something that will need to be judged harsher. I agree with the comment above that 2022 is looking a lot more like his NHL ETA than the silly projection of 2019. That was never going to happen and I said that at the time, but I thought 2020 or 2021 wasn’t that big of an ask. It shouldn’t be for a top 10 pick.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[SlafCaufield]

what happened to this guy ?

 

[bl02]

what happened to this guy ?

What do you mean? He's getting first/second line minutes on one of the top teams in the KHL which is without a doubt become the second best league in the world. His team unfortunately doesn't score many goals but on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams in the KHL. He's cooled off from a hot start earlier in season but his 200 foot game is improving. Hopefully that will eventually make him a better overall NHL player in the future.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

What do you mean? He's getting first/second line minutes on one of the top teams in the KHL which is without a doubt become the second best league in the world. His team unfortunately doesn't score many goals but on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams in the KHL. He's cooled off from a hot start earlier in season but his 200 foot game is improving. Hopefully that will eventually make him a better overall NHL player in the future.

What? Traktor is in the top 3rd in the league of goal scoring

 

[bl02]

What? Traktor is in the top 3rd in the league of goal scoring

They are more towards the middle in scoring per game. I believe 14th of 27 teams.Their bread and butter is their d play and goaltending. They did put up 5 plus goal games against some poor teams this year.
They are more typical of winning games 2-1 or 3-1.

 

[QJL]

I’ve seen enough highlights this season of his teammates shanking beautiful feeds. I’m not concerned yet about his production. Would like to see him finish around 25-30 points.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

what happened to this guy ?

Biding his time until he becomes a Penguin, obviously.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I’ve seen enough highlights this season of his teammates shanking beautiful feeds.

You see that kind of logic only holds up if we were to think the teammates shank on his feeds only. Or he plays with some kind of bums. And yet, he is the least productive player of the line, somehow.

 

[Caser]

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kravtsov is starting to look like a bust. He started the season well with some goals, but since then he's struggled.

He absolutely should not be under .5PPG at this juncture. He's three drafts removed from being a top 10 pick. Picks in that 6-10 range are often ready for the NHL in their D+2 season. Kravtsov wasn't, and that alone doesn't make him a bust, but in his D+3 season to still not be playing at a level where he's anywhere close to NHL ready. I don't know how we can't start saying its looking like a bad pick.

And Kravtsov isn't one of these kids whose really small or very young for his draft. He's 6'3 having played KHL hockey since his draft year, and he's a December birthday. There can't further be any excuses. His team is not bad. They are fourth in their conference, and middle of the pack in goals scored. Kravtsov does not have an unlucky shooting percentage. He's shooting 12.%. He does not play very low minutes. He plays 16:33 per game, 5th most among the forwards. He's 6th among the forwards in PPG, and when you add in defenseman, 8th on the team.

This is not good enough. People liked to compare him to players like Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Buchnevich, Kaprizov, Panarin, Gusev, and all the best KHL forwards at a young age, but he's fallen way behind these guys.

This is not to say he couldn't turn things around. He's a talented player, and he might be a late developer. I think his stint last year in the AHL hurt his development. I also don't think its a complete coincidence that his level of play dropped after an injury this season, but what I see is a player who has big puck skills, along with good size and skating, so we all think he will develop the scoring instincts to be a big scorer. So far, he mostly just appears to be a very skilled guy who makes a great play every once in a while, but doesn't have a consistent offensive impact. The first player that comes to mind is Sonny Milano, another guy that was a flashy high pick winger that hasn't panned out.

The way Kravtsov's trending, I'm not sure we are getting more than a third line winger. Hopefully I'm wrong, but a soon to be 21 year old that isn't playing that well in the KHL is worrying. The Rangers are looking at two top 10 picks in 2017 and 2018 that might bust. Not good, at all.

 

[EXTRAS]

Kravtsov is starting to look like a bust. He started the season well with some goals, but since then he's struggled.

He absolutely should not be under .5PPG at this juncture. He's three drafts removed from being a top 10 pick. Picks in that 6-10 range are often ready for the NHL in their D+2 season. Kravtsov wasn't, and that alone doesn't make him a bust, but in his D+3 season to still not be playing at a level where he's anywhere close to NHL ready. I don't know how we can't start saying its looking like a bad pick.

And Kravtsov isn't one of these kids whose really small or very young for his draft. He's 6'3 having played KHL hockey since his draft year, and he's a December birthday. There can't further be any excuses. His team is not bad. They are fourth in their conference, and middle of the pack in goals scored. Kravtsov does not have an unlucky shooting percentage. He's shooting 12.%. He does not play very low minutes. He plays 16:33 per game, 5th most among the forwards. He's 6th among the forwards in PPG, and when you add in defenseman, 8th on the team.

This is not good enough. People liked to compare him to players like Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Buchnevich, Kaprizov, Panarin, Gusev, and all the best KHL forwards at a young age, but he's fallen way behind these guys.

This is not to say he couldn't turn things around. He's a talented player, and he might be a late developer. I think his stint last year in the AHL hurt his development. I also don't think its a complete coincidence that his level of play dropped after an injury this season, but what I see is a player who has big puck skills, along with good size and skating, so we all think he will develop the scoring instincts to be a big scorer. So far, he mostly just appears to be a very skilled guy who makes a great play every once in a while, but doesn't have a consistent offensive impact. The first player that comes to mind is Sonny Milano, another guy that was a flashy high pick winger that hasn't panned out.

The way Kravtsov's trending, I'm not sure we are getting more than a third line winger. Hopefully I'm wrong, but a soon to be 21 year old that isn't playing that well in the KHL is worrying. The Rangers are looking at two top 10 picks in 2017 and 2018 that might bust. Not good, at all.

It's not like he isn't doing anything offensively...he's leading Tractor in goals/game...and is only a couple points off being 2nd best in points per game on the team. The team clearly doesn't score much with the 2 leading scorers having 24 and 20 points through 35 games.

Yes, he could do more, but I wouldn't call his numbers "bad". He is still only 20, afterall.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's not like he isn't doing anything offensively...he's leading Tractor in goals/game...and is only a couple points off being 2nd best in points per game on the team. The team clearly doesn't score much with the 2 leading scorers having 24 and 20 points through 35 games.

Yes, he could do more, but I wouldn't call his numbers "bad". He is still only 20, afterall.

That would be good, if we were talking about a 6th or 7th round pick who might have a chance to be a 3rd liner at age 23 or 24. Kravtsov is a top 10 pick. If we are changing the bar from he’s comparable to Kuznetsov to he’s not without a chance to play in the NHL, that’s not good.

 

[SoundAndFury]

That would be good, if we were talking about a 6th or 7th round pick who might have a chance to be a 3rd liner at age 23 or 24.

False. 2018 1st rounders currently playing in Europe:

Veleno - 0,47 PPG in SHL
Bokk - 0,15 PPG in SHL
Kaut - 0,25 in Czech Extraliga, then 0,62 in Allsvenskan
Wahlstrom - 0,8 PPG in Allsvenskan
Zadina - 0,93 PPG in Czech Extraliga
Hayton - 0,5 PPG in the SHL
Kotkaniemi - 0,8 PPG in the Liiga

I'd say Kravtsov's 0,46 PPG in the KHL on a rather low-scoring team is perfectly in line with these numbers. We aren't talking about 6-7th rounders here. None of these guys are really dominating their leagues (Zadina's numbers look good but he is still just 5th on the team in scoring, needless to say, it's a pretty ridiculous team). Neither is Kravtsov so he probably isn't the new Gretzky, probably not even the new Kuznetsov, but he is doing fine.

His only fault is being overhyped. A Russian goes in the top-10 and everyone expects a new Malkin. The same thing is happening to Podkolzin now. Thanks Craig Button, I guess. By the way, a special shoutout to @Amazing Kreiderman who did such a great job in that regard on these boards during Kravtsov's D+1 season too.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

False. 2018 1st rounders currently playing in Europe:

Veleno - 0,47 PPG in SHL
Bokk - 0,15 PPG in SHL
Kaut - 0,25 in Czech Extraliga, then 0,62 in Allsvenskan
Wahlstrom - 0,8 PPG in Allsvenskan
Zadina - 0,93 PPG in Czech Extraliga
Hayton - 0,5 PPG in the SHL
Kotkaniemi - 0,8 PPG in the Liiga

I'd say Kravtsov's 0,46 PPG in the KHL on a rather low-scoring team is perfectly in line with these numbers. We aren't talking about 6-7th rounders here. None of these guys are really dominating their leagues (Zadina's numbers look good but he is still just 5th on the team in scoring, needless to say, it's a pretty ridiculous team). Neither is Kravtsov so he probably isn't the new Gretzky, probably not even the new Kuznetsov, but he is doing fine.

His only fault is being overhyped. A Russian goes in the top-10 and everyone expects a new Malkin. The same thing is happening to Podkolzin now. Thanks Craig Button, I guess. By the way, a special shoutout to @Amazing Kreiderman who did such a great job in that regard on these boards during Kravtsov's D+1 season too.

I don't even disagree with that much of what you're saying, but here's my biggest issue with what you are saying. The terms of the discussion are overwhelmingly negative. You are comparing him to some guys like Veleno, Bokk, Kaut, Hayton, even Kotkaniemi, who've had bad stints so far this season in Europe. Aside from Wahlstrom and Zadina, why is it a good thing to be comparable to guys playing poorly that should be and have been criticized? And Kravtsov has been a member of this team for years. Some of those guys you named might've never stepped foot in Europe prior to the last few months. I would expect him to be more adjusted to the team and league than some of those guys.

Traktor is 15 of 23 in GPG. Thats below league average, but thats not terrible or one of the worst in the league. The team is pretty good this season, and there are seven guys outscoring Kravtsov. I'm sorry, but I expect more. I would expect Kravtsov to be a main reason why their goals per game is higher. He should be the main man or close to it at this point. Kravtsov is in his D+3 season as a late birthday, and he's a middle of the team player on an average KHL team. That is not good enough.

If he's doing fine, what would not be fine? Of that top ten, he's the only one to so far not play any NHL games. And of the other nine in that top 10, the only two others besides Kravtsov to not be established NHL'ers that were already in their team's lineups when the season ended are Bouchard and Hayton. Worst yet, Kravtsov is not that close to being an NHL'er. If you can't average half a point per game in the KHL, you certainly are not an NHL'er.

Now, I'm sure they'll be some reply if he goes slightly over .5PPG from someone that he's now an NHL'er, but I don't think its that easy. I want to see some clear tangible progress. He's barely scoring any better did two seasons ago, and we know last season between his KHL stint and his AHL stint, he didn't score either. We saw he wasn't close to an NHL'er two years ago. What has changed? Is he clearly much better? I don't think

At what point does Kravtsov need to score to regain his status as developing well? I don't care if he's battling a little harder, is a little stronger, or is playing a little better defense. These are the things people tell themselves that want to do everything they can to believe he's meeting expectations. This guy was drafted top 10, and drafted to score. Right now, he's not even scoring that great in the KHL in his D+3 season. I was never one of those hyping him as an NHL'er in his D+1 season. In fact, I said that was ridiculous, but I would've thought that by his D+3 season he should be NHL ready. Instead, he's a middle of the league KHL'er. Thats not good enough.

No one's asking him to be Malkin. If he wasn't Kuznetsov or Tarasenko either, I wouldn't even make that big of a deal about it. How about being Buchnevich or Kaprizov at the same juncture? He's not even producing close to as well as Marchenko, picked 40 picks later, a player he's seven months older than and plays over two minutes more than per game. I liked the pick when it was made, but I'm not going to tell myself a top ten pick being mediocre is okay. I didn't do that with the Andersson pick, and I'm not going to do that with the Kravtsov pick just because his game is more exciting to the neutral.

 

[SoundAndFury]

What has changed? Is he clearly much better? I don't think

He is. This is a rather excellent piece, sadly it's behind a paywall.

The Habits Vitali Kravtsov Built Last Year are Paying off This Season

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He is. This is a rather excellent piece, sadly it's behind a paywall.

The Habits Vitali Kravtsov Built Last Year are Paying off This Season

No, I already addressed this stuff.

I don't care if he's battling a little harder, is a little stronger, or is playing a little better defense.

And quite frankly, if Kravtsov was scoring, no one would care about the other stuff. He was drafted to score. The reason he wasn't close to NHL ready when he came over had little to do with other parts of the game. If Kravtsov was ready to be a big scorer at the NHL level, he would've been on the team in his D+1 season.

It doesn't seem like you read my post too closely, but if you want to stick on this point, this was what I said that you can actually address.

I would expect Kravtsov to be a main reason why their goals per game is higher. He should be the main man or close to it at this point. Kravtsov is in his D+3 season as a late birthday, and he's a middle of the team player on an average KHL team. That is not good enough.

 

[2014nyr]

I don't even disagree with that much of what you're saying, but here's my biggest issue with what you are saying. The terms of the discussion are overwhelmingly negative. You are comparing him to some guys like Veleno, Bokk, Kaut, Hayton, even Kotkaniemi, who've had bad stints so far this season in Europe. Aside from Wahlstrom and Zadina, why is it a good thing to be comparable to guys playing poorly that should be and have been criticized? And Kravtsov has been a member of this team for years. Some of those guys you named might've never stepped foot in Europe prior to the last few months. I would expect him to be more adjusted to the team and league than some of those guys.

Traktor is 15 of 23 in GPG. Thats below league average, but thats not terrible or one of the worst in the league. The team is pretty good this season, and there are seven guys outscoring Kravtsov. I'm sorry, but I expect more. I would expect Kravtsov to be a main reason why their goals per game is higher. He should be the main man or close to it at this point. Kravtsov is in his D+3 season as a late birthday, and he's a middle of the team player on an average KHL team. That is not good enough.

If he's doing fine, what would not be fine? Of that top ten, he's the only one to so far not play any NHL games. And of the other nine in that top 10, the only two others besides Kravtsov to not be established NHL'ers that were already in their team's lineups when the season ended are Bouchard and Hayton. Worst yet, Kravtsov is not that close to being an NHL'er. If you can't average half a point per game in the KHL, you certainly are not an NHL'er.

Now, I'm sure they'll be some reply if he goes slightly over .5PPG from someone that he's now an NHL'er, but I don't think its that easy. I want to see some clear tangible progress. He's barely scoring any better did two seasons ago, and we know last season between his KHL stint and his AHL stint, he didn't score either. We saw he wasn't close to an NHL'er two years ago. What has changed? Is he clearly much better? I don't think

At what point does Kravtsov need to score to regain his status as developing well? I don't care if he's battling a little harder, is a little stronger, or is playing a little better defense. These are the things people tell themselves that want to do everything they can to believe he's meeting expectations. This guy was drafted top 10, and drafted to score. Right now, he's not even scoring that great in the KHL in his D+3 season. I was never one of those hyping him as an NHL'er in his D+1 season. In fact, I said that was ridiculous, but I would've thought that by his D+3 season he should be NHL ready. Instead, he's a middle of the league KHL'er. Thats not good enough.

No one's asking him to be Malkin. If he wasn't Kuznetsov or Tarasenko either, I wouldn't even make that big of a deal about it. How about being Buchnevich or Kaprizov at the same juncture? He's not even producing close to as well as Marchenko, picked 40 picks later, a player he's seven months older than and plays over two minutes more than per game. I liked the pick when it was made, but I'm not going to tell myself a top ten pick being mediocre is okay. I didn't do that with the Andersson pick, and I'm not going to do that with the Kravtsov pick just because his game is more exciting to the neutral.

I think thats a little too harsh on production levels and stats centric in valuing the kid. .5 pts /g isn't terrible. and while yea better defense and battling more aren't his calling cards...theyre what he needs - not to become a selke winner or take away from his offense. there's just no question at all about his skill, skating, iq etc w/ the puck. its not about his playing defense, its about he needs to learn how to get pucks and start transition, how to win pucks and keep possession ... he doesn't need help on offense, he needs to get better at giving himself chances to create it. additionally, while i agree at some point regardless of who you play with or system you'd like to see him get on the board...he kind of is. not lighting it up, but he's doing fine. its more than just the who and the system though those are influential, its also the team and the culture. they are clearly not the most talented and its no secret they have a defensive structure and identity...and theyre winning, and there's a lot of good he's almost certainly taking out of that. would it be better if he was at a ppg playing on a terrible team freewheeling and going coast to coast 15x a game while his team got its wheels beat off night in and night out? sometimes you play for a team, you play within a structure for the guys around you because thats how you win...and maybe it sacrifices how many chances he gets a game. but if he's learning to do the things it takes to win, if he's playing for more than himself with his skillset...i think thats a positive long term. look at a mat barzal...i don't think anyone would argue he could absolutely light it up at another level away from the islanders system...instead he produces at a pretty high level playing within a structure that allows his team to win. i'm not comparing them talent or style wise...just saying points alone don't say enough to conclude what this kid is or isn't going to be. maybe he takes off at some point. maybe he hums along at this pace. i will be very curious to see his playoff production, as i think stepping up or sliding back there is something that does offer more information on what we have in him.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

"My name is Vitaly, how may I be of assistance?"

 

[CaptTennille]

 

[TGWL]

I am not as worried about his production. He didn't make the NHL because he looked like an invisible floater. This season in the KHL, Kravtsov has broken up numerous plays by hustling back and playing a much better team game. While production is obviously important for a player hype with offense ability, his play without the puck will keep him out of the NHL. So it's a good thing he's working on changing that.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

PB has never understood anything beyond the score sheet but I also do agree with the notion that we want to be seeing more production than this at this point.

Still. Ths level of production, assuming his 200 foot game has taken very significant strides forward is plenty good. Not great. Not elite...which is what we hoped for. But still good.

 

[Hollel]