RW Taylor Raddysh - Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds, OHL (2016, 58th, TBL)

[BigGreenAlum]

Virtanen wasn't above the CHL. He just wasn't good. It doesn't prevent the problem, he just probably fails in the AHL (as he has done most of this year). Players will bust, having this movement doesn't make it any less likely. It also probably makes drafting higher risk, as they aren't playing against high-level competition.

You are changing the whole chain of development. It could work and be better, but is it really worth the risk to what is currently the system that produces the most NHLers, and a significant portion of its best players.

These agents/advisors know what they are dealing with when they start advising these kids at 16. If they don't want this conflict, then start directing their kids to the USHL. If not, accept the positives of facing better competition at a younger age, but potentially being trapped if you aren't good enough.

If NHL teams don't like the current agreement, there would be noises about them encouraging kids (and the agents that advise them) to go the USHL/JR A. route. So far, that isn't happening. They are complaining in retrospect, wanting the best of both sides, which isn't possible. It will give an advantage to a 2 year window of kids, then present a bunch of different problems of kids less ready for the next step. Making it less likely teams at the bottom of the draft can draft kids who will make an immediate impact in 2 years.

Look, the CHL can do whatever it wants and the current NHL-CHL agreement runs through 2019-2020 season so there are 3 more seasons before any potential changes on a new agreement. I am simply stating i) NHL teams prefer to have the right to place their drafted and signed U20 players where they see fit as they do so routinely with "non drafted out of the CHL" prospects who are ready for pro in U19 or U20 seasons (Nylander brothers, Fischer vs Strome, etc.) and ii) players/agents would like that flexibility too.

Competition and choice is a good thing for consumers. It is TBD if the NHL and/or players exert enough pressure for the CHL to change their rules any time soon. In the meantime NHL execs, players and agents are appreciating the relatively new choices afforded to the other 50%. God bless competitive markets.

 

[93LEAFS]

Look, the CHL can do whatever it wants and the current NHL-CHL agreement runs through 2019-2020 season so there are 3 more seasons before any potential changes on a new agreement. I am simply stating i) NHL teams prefer to have the right to place their drafted and signed U20 players where they see fit as they do so routinely with "non drafted out of the CHL" prospects who are ready for pro in U19 or U20 seasons (Nylander brothers, Fischer vs Strome, etc.) and ii) players/agents would like that flexibility too.

Competition and choice is a good thing for consumers. It is TBD if the NHL and/or players exert enough pressure for the CHL to change their rules any time soon. In the meantime NHL execs, players and agents are appreciating the relatively new choices afforded to the other 50%. God bless competitive markets.

Players won't exert pressure. Agents might try to convince them to but its unlikely. NBA players sold out the high-school kids when it benefited them, I don't see that changing. Teams obviously do what they can when it is a micro and selfish issue (such as removing one individual player). Dramatically overhauling the agreement so fundamentally changes the development system it affects scouting and the overall development quality of those leagues. In the end, these kids (parents and advisors) know what they are getting into when they agree to play in the CHL. If its that big an issue, find the other development leagues, which they can. But, that doesn't really seem to be happening among Canadian kids who still choose the CHL an overwhelming amount.

The NHL and Pro hockey aren't really competitive markets. If they were, there would be no salary cap, hell, you could even abolish the draft. Keeping the CHL strong has overall benefits for everyone. None of these kids who have shortcutted the CHL have turned out great so far. Lets see how A. Nylander, Honka, Milano, Fischer and Goldobin turn out befoe saying the system is severely flawed and in need of drastic overhaul.

So far this year, Alex Nylander looked overwhelmed in Rochester and physically unprepared. Another year in the CHL probably would have done him good.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

He's a monster. Love that we have him.

 

[BigGreenAlum]

Players won't exert pressure. Agents might try to convince them to but its unlikely. NBA players sold out the high-school kids when it benefited them, I don't see that changing. Teams obviously do what they can when it is a micro and selfish issue (such as removing one individual player). Dramatically overhauling the agreement so fundamentally changes the development system it affects scouting and the overall development quality of those leagues. In the end, these kids (parents and advisors) know what they are getting into when they agree to play in the CHL. If its that big an issue, find the other development leagues, which they can. But, that doesn't really seem to be happening among Canadian kids who still choose the CHL an overwhelming amount.

The NHL and Pro hockey aren't really competitive markets. If they were, there would be no salary cap, hell, you could even abolish the draft. Keeping the CHL strong has overall benefits for everyone. None of these kids who have shortcutted the CHL have turned out great so far. Lets see how A. Nylander, Honka, Milano, Fischer and Goldobin turn out befoe saying the system is severely flawed and in need of drastic overhaul.

So far this year, Alex Nylander looked overwhelmed in Rochester and physically unprepared. Another year in the CHL probably would have done him good.

By "players" I actually meant U17 and U18 players not NHL players - sorry if that was unclear. There is the potential that more could opt to avoid the CHL-NHL clause by not being drafted out of the CHL (or arrange a loan to exclude them) and allow them to play pro U19 or U20 - even if they go to the CHL post NHL draft for a year. I am not specifically referring to Canadian talent, more a comment on global talent in general.

For example, I know some agents who advocate their Euro prospects - only eligible to play CHL at 17 under current rules - to play in the USHL for their U18 season (or even U17 season) to adjust to the NA ice and culture and keep their options open - can go to NCAA or choose to try to play AHL in U19 and U20 seasons post draft and still have the CHL available. As my grad finance professor used to say, "options have value".

TBD if any real trends emerge but worth watching. As a proud Canadian but having played NCAA hockey, I a just glad players have multiple legitimate development options , although I am concerned the % of NHL players from Canada was 45.9% in 2016-2017 - the lowest ever.

As far as A. Nylander the Sabres chose to let him develop in the AHL - they felt it was best for him and they could have sent him back to the CHL if they deemed he wasn't ready. They didn't. Again, that's my point, NHL teams like having this flexibility with drafted players. Playing in the AHL at 18 is analogous to 16 yer olds playing in the CHL. Huge step up, players have to adjust to a much higher level of play without being forced to only go to the NHL or back to the CHL. You might disagree with the Sabres choice for Nylander but key point is they have the choice.

Let's end this sidebar so folks can talk about Radddysh - PM me if you want to discuss this issue further.

I hate when threads get hijacked so mea culpa to all HF readers.

 

[Dhockey16]

Players won't exert pressure. Agents might try to convince them to but its unlikely. NBA players sold out the high-school kids when it benefited them, I don't see that changing. Teams obviously do what they can when it is a micro and selfish issue (such as removing one individual player). Dramatically overhauling the agreement so fundamentally changes the development system it affects scouting and the overall development quality of those leagues. In the end, these kids (parents and advisors) know what they are getting into when they agree to play in the CHL. If its that big an issue, find the other development leagues, which they can. But, that doesn't really seem to be happening among Canadian kids who still choose the CHL an overwhelming amount.

The NHL and Pro hockey aren't really competitive markets. If they were, there would be no salary cap, hell, you could even abolish the draft. Keeping the CHL strong has overall benefits for everyone. None of these kids who have shortcutted the CHL have turned out great so far. Lets see how A. Nylander, Honka, Milano, Fischer and Goldobin turn out befoe saying the system is severely flawed and in need of drastic overhaul.

So far this year, Alex Nylander looked overwhelmed in Rochester and physically unprepared. Another year in the CHL probably would have done him good.

I read through the various responses and there's nothing you've said that I necessarily disagree with. It might well be that playing in the AHL isn't a good thing for the majority of 19 year old CHL prospects. It would certainly not be a good thing for the CHL. I don't think the "system" is bad for player development. The hockey is great right now! I do think it's bad for the players. Awful, in fact. These guys have a limited timeframe where they can monetize their ability and the CHL or NHL rule takes a year away from them. The NHL is a lot better than basketball or football as the players are drafted at 18 instead of "x years out of high school" but it's still wrong. You are right when you say pro hockey isn't a competitive market - and frankly, it shouldn't be. These guys already have to go through the draft, giving them no say in who their employer is. They should at least be given a chance to prove themselves. Instead they're forced to work to free if they're not an elite talent - or even if they play the wrong position, especially goalies. In any case, it's a moot point. The NHL doesn't want it, veteran players don't want, and the CHL certainly doesn't want it.

Raddysh, by the way, has been the most impressive player to me in the OHL playoffs. A lot of fun to watch in the corners - a real battler. I wouldn't shed a tear if he returns to Erie.

 

[BigGreenAlum]

I read through the various responses and there's nothing you've said that I necessarily disagree with. It might well be that playing in the AHL isn't a good thing for the majority of 19 year old CHL prospects. It would certainly not be a good thing for the CHL. I don't think the "system" is bad for player development. The hockey is great right now! I do think it's bad for the players. Awful, in fact. These guys have a limited timeframe where they can monetize their ability and the CHL or NHL rule takes a year away from them. The NHL is a lot better than basketball or football as the players are drafted at 18 instead of "x years out of high school" but it's still wrong. You are right when you say pro hockey isn't a competitive market - and frankly, it shouldn't be. These guys already have to go through the draft, giving them no say in who their employer is. They should at least be given a chance to prove themselves. Instead they're forced to work to free if they're not an elite talent - or even if they play the wrong position, especially goalies. In any case, it's a moot point. The NHL doesn't want it, veteran players don't want, and the CHL certainly doesn't want it.

Raddysh, by the way, has been the most impressive player to me in the OHL playoffs. A lot of fun to watch in the corners - a real battler. I wouldn't shed a tear if he returns to Erie.

The counter is if players don't want to be restricted and prevented from playing pro at U19 or U20, then don't be drafted out of the CHL. Players drafted from the NCAA, USHL or other US leagues, Euro leagues, arranging a team loan into the CHL pre NHL draft( A Nylander) are all allowed to play pro at U19 (or earlier if playing in Europe). CJHL to NCAA is another way to play pro as a U20 if they leave school - e.g. Tyson Jost - but some posters believe if he doesn't make the Avs he might have to play in the CHL this year instead of the AHL. TBD if that is even an issue as he is expected to play in the NHL.

With approx 50% of NHLers from the CHL route and 50% from other leagues, half of U20 prospects can play any level of pro and NHL teams like and use that flexibility if the players are ready to move up. They can always send these prospects back to junior if not ready for the pro game. Obviously the other half of future NHLers - those drafted out of the CHL - don't have any U20 pro options aside from the NHL. TBD if this changes but the current CHL-NHL agreement lasts through the 2019-2020 season.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Drouin-Stamkos-Kucherov
Palat-Point-Raddysh

Sheesh.

 

[landy92mack29]

Raddysh+Strome just tied the single game Mem Cup points record with 6 a piece. In the first 2 games Raddysh has 2 goals and 6 assists

 

[landy92mack29]

The rich get richer

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Why is Nylander allowed to be in the AHL? Are import players a specific exception to that rule? Or was he technically on loan from a Swedish club during his junior career?

 

[The Macho King]

Why is Nylander allowed to be in the AHL? Are import players a specific exception to that rule? Or was he technically on loan from a Swedish club during his junior career?

CHL players are stuck with the CHL/NHL agreement. Non-CHL players are not. So - contract status notwithstanding - players that played in the Euro leagues are eligible to play in the AHL as 18/19 year olds. For the most part this is fine - very few players are "too good" for the CHL despite rhetoric from excited fans. I don't think Raddysh is one of those players that is too good for the CHL (plus I don't know if we have room for another rookie in Syracuse anyway right now).

 

[CupsOverCash]

How is he doing this year?

 

[landy92mack29]

How is he doing this year?

He's had another great year and is the best player on a deep Soo team. Skating is coming along nicely and should be a lock for the NHL next year but with how deep TB are he might spend some time in the AHL even though I don't think he'll need it.

 

[CupsOverCash]

He's had another great year and is the best player on a deep Soo team. Skating is coming along nicely and should be a lock for the NHL next year but with how deep TB are he might spend some time in the AHL even though I don't think he'll need it.

Thanks for the update. Well one thing we do have a need in is at RW. If he has a good camp he could stick. However we usually like to bring guys through Syracuse before bringing them here. All the best on our team had to. Maybe he would come here next year later in the year when/if hes proven himself a little bit.

 

[Peasy]

He's had another great year and is the best player on a deep Soo team. Skating is coming along nicely and should be a lock for the NHL next year but with how deep TB are he might spend some time in the AHL even though I don't think he'll need it.

Better than Frost? I dont think so.

 

[Gargyn]

I personally prefer Katchouk. Another Bolts pick!

 

[The Macho King]

Thanks for the update. Well one thing we do have a need in is at RW. If he has a good camp he could stick. However we usually like to bring guys through Syracuse before bringing them here. All the best on our team had to. Maybe he would come here next year later in the year when/if hes proven himself a little bit.

Point didn't.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Point didn't.

He played in Syracuse a little bit didn't he?

Edit- 9 games in Syracuse for the playoffs when his junior team was done. You are right though. He was definitely an exception to the rule.

 

[The Macho King]

He played in Syracuse a little bit didn't he?

Nope. Made the opening night roster. Think he was down there for a few games on a conditioning stint later in the year but I don't think that really counts.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Nope. Made the opening night roster. Think he was down there for a few games on a conditioning stint later in the year but I don't think that really counts.

Ok yea I thought that I had seen him there but I was under the impression that he had been killing it down there and came up. I forgot he made it out of camp.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

I personally prefer Katchouk. Another Bolts pick!

Katchouk is a better player. He does everything at a high level and plays with an edge. Raddysh isn't close to NHL ready, but is still great value in a late 2nd round pick. Katchouk will probably be a regular in Tampa lineup by January at the latest.

 

[PG Canuck]

Thanks for the update. Well one thing we do have a need in is at RW. If he has a good camp he could stick. However we usually like to bring guys through Syracuse before bringing them here. All the best on our team had to. Maybe he would come here next year later in the year when/if hes proven himself a little bit.

He's probably going to get the Cirelli development. Play in AHL, prove yourself, if you do, get called up. Highly doubt he's given a spot out of camp considering how TB has handled just about every prospect coming through their ranks.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Any Tampa fans have new stuff about TRaddysh? Crunch roster looks really strong, realllllly strong
should favor many of your prospects, thou goaltending does not look particularly strong.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

23 points in 29 games. Tampa keeps churning out prospects.

They also have Barre-Boulet, Stephens, Volkov, Katchouk all on the same team. None of them were first round picks.

Is Tampa the best prospect scouting team in the league?

 

[landy92mack29]

Yeah TB and Vegas have the 2 best scouting staffs but TB is just on it's own level.