RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft)

[Ippenator]

What about the WAR stat, is that useless too? It suggests the exact same thing: his value for his team is exclusively related to how much he can score goals and nothing else really.

So what do you say about him allowing the least amount of 5 on 5 goals from all of the Jets top six forwards this season? Does that in your opinion maybe have to do somehow with how much he helped the Jets score goals?

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Luckily for him, he scores a bunch of 'em.

Yeah, never said he is a bad player. He is "quite" useful at scoring.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

So what do you say about him allowing the least amount of goals from all of the Jets top six forwards this season? Does that in your opinion maybe have to do somehow with how much he helped the Jets score goals?

I didn't say he was like completely hopeless at defending. But he isn't in the NHL because of his complete game, he is there because he can win games by scoring goals. Nothing wrong with that, I love Laine as a player. Do you honestly think he would be playing in the Jets top 6 without his shooting ability?

 

[Ippenator]

I didn't say he was like completely hopeless at defending. But he isn't in the NHL because of his complete game, he is there because he can win games by scoring goals. Nothing wrong with that, I love Laine as a player. Do you honestly think he would be playing in the Jets top 6 without his shooting ability?

No one would be playing in any team’s top six without their shooting ability. But honestly if Laine would have ”only” the shooting skills of Ehlers or Connor, yes I would see him still good enough to play in the Jets top 6. He is that smart offensively and defensively and he would then be most probably taking a more playmaking role than he is doing now.

 

[Daximus]

This just shows that you lack understanding of how players with high hockey IQ can make themselves very efficient at both ends of the ice, and not maybe please your eyes very much while doing it. It means that you probably watch hockey more like you would be watching figure skating. You want to like what you see visually. And the more a player pleases your eyes with his playing style, the more you like him. To me those kind of things don't mean much in hockey. I watch and appreciate the end results and the efficiency of players at both ends of the ice. That way you see the true class of players.

haha wow.. you literally just described yourself and how you see your best friend Laine. You literally see zero fault in his game and when you do see a fault you sugar coat it with some excuse as to why he has that fault or blame it on literally everyone else but him. It's the GM's fault or it's the coaches fault or the refs fault or this players fault or that player fault or the fans fault for not seeing it the way YOU see it. You see him as if he's some graceful godlike figure skater who just floats around the ice and does whatever he wants wherever he wants and everything he does pleases your eyes in some whimsical magical way. You get incredibly excited whenever you see his face and you can't help but giggle whenever he looks at the TV as if he's looking right at you and giving you his nod of approval for being his online crusader.

 

[Daximus]

I didn't say he was like completely hopeless at defending. But he isn't in the NHL because of his complete game, he is there because he can win games by scoring goals. Nothing wrong with that, I love Laine as a player. Do you honestly think he would be playing in the Jets top 6 without his shooting ability?

He probably thinks he'd still be the Jets leading goalscorer.

 

[Daximus]

But back to Kakko. Just watched some more of this kid. His skating is pretty solid you can definitely even notice a bit of a change from Jr.B to Jr.A as it seems I watched a Jr. B game before. His edgework is pretty solid and his stickhandling along with it is what makes him a dangerous player. He doesn't lose any strides while he stickhandles around players and it's those little adjustments in his skating that open up lanes. He actually has a much better shot than I first thought though it does take him awhile to wind up that wrister sometimes. Be really interesting to see how he continues to improve. With some more explosiveness in his skating he could be a really dangerous player.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

No one would be playing in any team’s top six without their shooting ability. But honestly if Laine would have ”only” the shooting skills of Ehlers or Connor, yes I would see him still good enough to play in the Jets top 6. He is that smart offensively and defensively and he would then be most probably taking a more playmaking role than he is doing now.

Laine is extremely talented as a player no doubt. But to me it is showing that he is still a teenager playing against the toughest competition. His possession numbers aren't that great. Like I said, nothing wrong with that. Most of his peers (99.9%) are playing in minors right now. I think Laine would be a really useful player in the NHL without his shot, but not as of now really. To me it speaks volumes how great he can eventually become when he physically matures more and improves his weaknesses. I realized my messages came across probably as rather insulting and I apologize for that.

 

[Ippenator]

Laine is extremely talented as a player no doubt. But to me it is showing that he is still a teenager playing against the toughest competition. His possession numbers aren't that great. Like I said, nothing wrong with that. Most of his peers (99.9%) are playing in minors right now. I think Laine would be a really useful player in the NHL without his shot, but not as of now really. To me it speaks volumes how great he can eventually become when he physically matures more and improves his weaknesses. I realized my messages came across probably as rather insulting and I apologize for that.

I agree with his shortcomings for sure with the physical side. I’m also not claiming that he is a perfect player, but I dont also buy those talks that he is just about his shot and wouldn't be worthy of playing in the NHL without that caliber shot. Heck Artyukhin had a lot harder shot than Laine, and there has been many other guys that have had harder shots and even pretty accurate ones, but they just couldn't use it efficiently enough because they didn’t have the IQ to get open well and quickly enough.

I do agree that Laine needs to still mature quite a lot, but his results speak for themselves even when he has been so physically raw and having especially problems with his weak stamina and first steps. But his top speed is already pretty darn great, so he should gradually become better with his skating in general. And I do believe that it will definitely happen as long as he can avoid any major injuries.

And no offence taken from you. I have appreciated you always as a poster here. We might not always agree on things, but hey, that’s how these boards work. I would say that we even can agree relatively often anyway.

But I definitely hope that Kakko will be as good as he has been hyped already to become. It will be very interesting to follow him and many other very talented young Finns in Liiga during the forthcoming season.

 

[Henkka]

Rantanen being slow?

Okay.

 

[Ippenator]

Looks slow. Why are Finnish players generally slow? When I think of prominent Finns both current and past, none of them have that breakaway speed you generally find in elite players

Laine/Barkov/Maata/Rantanen

Is there a comorbidity between Finnish genetics and lack of fast twitch genes or something

Those Finns are really big sized players (well not Määttä, but the others). That sized players will always look a bit slow and sluggish, but with long strides they can often be also deceptively fast. Barkov and Rantanen are not slow by any means. They have pretty good first steps even. Laine is also in fact very fast with his top speed, but he has clear problems with his first steps and especially with the lack of stamina that he has with his legs. But if you think of it that Laine beat MacKinnon in the skating competition in the all-star event a year ago, and he in fact didn’t lose by a huge margin to Kucherov whom was second, and not even by a huge margin to the winner McDavid. And that skating was not just straight line skating, but there was also acceleration from full stop and also a tight turn before coming back to the finish line. So that should tell that even Laine is not an absolutely bad skater.

I think the main thing is really that Finns have for a while now been much bigger sized as hockey players which has brought these kind of players that more look slow than they really are. And anyway it’s very rare for 6’3 or taller players to be extremely fast skaters. Scheifele and Wheeler are probably the two best of that size of skaters in the league, but there is not too many of that size and that great skating players.

 

[ijuka]

Looks slow. Why are Finnish players generally slow? When I think of prominent Finns both current and past, none of them have that breakaway speed you generally find in elite players

Laine/Barkov/Maata/Rantanen

Is there a comorbidity between Finnish genetics and lack of fast twitch genes or something

Skating's not very important in Finnish leagues, generally. But there are fast Finnish skaters also. Erik Haula is one that comes to mind.

Skating coaching seems to be improving for juniors because many of the upcoming prospects seem better in this regard.

 

[Ippenator]

Looks slow. Why are Finnish players generally slow? When I think of prominent Finns both current and past, none of them have that breakaway speed you generally find in elite players

Laine/Barkov/Maata/Rantanen

Is there a comorbidity between Finnish genetics and lack of fast twitch genes or something

Where did you think Selänne was from btw?

 

[93LEAFS]

Where did you think Selänne was from btw?

Sami Kapanen and his son are some of the fastest skaters I've seen.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

They usually do if they are 187 cm or taller. Even Selänne was only 183 cm tall and weighed about 94 kg in his prime. And it’s quite possible that Kakko even grows at least a bit taller.

Some other examples:

Zibanejad 187 cm 103 kg
Ovechkin 187 cm 108 kg
Benn 188 cm 95 kg
Voracek 189 cm 97 kg
Draisaitl 189 cm 98 kg
Scheifele 190 cm 94 kg
Perry 190 cm 97 kg
Barkov 191 cm 97 kg
Matthews 191 cm 98 kg
Lee 191 cm 105 kg
Couturier 192 cm 96 kg
Kopitar 192 cm 101 kg
Getzlaf 193 cm 101 kg

Shorter than 187 cm, but heavier than 94 kg:

Bäckström 184 cm 97 kg
Landeskog 184 cm 98 kg
Tarasenko 184 cm 99 kg
Tavares 185 cm 95 kg
O’Reilly 185 cm 98 kg

Under 187 cm but close to 94 kg:

Skinner 180 cm 91 kg
Crosby 180 cm 91 kg
Kessel 182 cm 92 kg
MacKinnon 183 cm 93 kgö
Hall 185 cm 93 kg
Kuznetsov 186 cm 93 kg

Those are all considered to be some of the stronger players in the NHL lol. He doesn't HAVE TO be one of the strongest to be a good player, sure it's preferable but no need to cherry pick really strong NHLers.

+ he's young, guys usually grow in height first and then grow mass around that later on, it's weird that you expect him to be fully grown in width and depth in proportion to his height by the age of 17 lol.

 

[Ippenator]

Those are all considered to be some of the stronger players in the NHL lol. He doesn't HAVE TO be one of the strongest to be a good player, sure it's preferable but no need to cherry pick really strong NHLers.

+ he's young, guys usually grow in height first and then grow mass around that later on, it's weird that you expect him to be fully grown in width and depth in proportion to his height by the age of 17 lol.

I’m definitely not expecting him to be fully grown as a 17 year old. I was just stating that strength is still an area that he will need to get a lot better before he goes to the NHL.

You btw missed clearly the fact that those players that I listed were mostly 187 cm tall or taller. Players that tall or taller just happen to be usually very strong. My point was still that you will not find in the NHL many players that tall that weigh less than 94 kg. Just check it yourself. There seriously is not many of them. Right now I can think of only Malkin (only 88 kg) and Toews (91 kg). And even with them I have seen some measurements where they were having clearly more weight than that.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I’m definitely not expecting him to be fully grown as a 17 year old. I was just stating that strength is still an area that he will need to get a lot better before he goes to the NHL.

What a useful statement...this goes for 99% of prospects. Also there's no weight standard a player needs to hit. You think they have some nhl player weight chart next to the skale? He'll train and he'll weight whatever he'll weight. Sometimes i wish you based your statements in something other than things you yourself have made up.

 

[Ippenator]

What a useful statement...this goes for 99% of prospects. Also there's no weight standard a player needs to hit. You think they have some nhl player weight chart next to the skale? He'll train and he'll weight whatever he'll weight. Sometimes i wish you based your statements in something other than thing you yourself have made up.

I honestly never attack you as a poster. Unfortunately you do that and not only against me. Try to keep in discussing the posts and not the poster or the posting style.

 

[Ippenator]

What a useful statement...this goes for 99% of prospects. Also there's no weight standard a player needs to hit. You think they have some nhl player weight chart next to the skale? He'll train and he'll weight whatever he'll weight. Sometimes i wish you based your statements in something other than thing you yourself have made up.

And I just stated as a fact that a huge majority of 187 cm or taller players weigh at least 94 kg or even clearly more. That should prove that it is in general how that tall players are built. If you weigh under 94 kg and are 187 cm or more tall, you are a real rarity. It just means that statistically it’s not likely for Kakko to become a real NHL top player if he will not weigh at least 94 kg. Possible for sure, but just statistically much unlikelier than if he would be bulked up enough.

 

[Ippenator]

What a useful statement...this goes for 99% of prospects. Also there's no weight standard a player needs to hit. You think they have some nhl player weight chart next to the skale? He'll train and he'll weight whatever he'll weight. Sometimes i wish you based your statements in something other than thing you yourself have made up.

And also my point with that statement originally was that when he needs to anyway bulk up, he will almost for sure become by some margin less shifty, as his shiftiness was so much promoted over a player like Rantanen, whom is about 16 kg heavier and has already bulked up to be NHL strong. I guess again you missed my point.

 

[bebl]

Where did you think Selänne was from btw?

You didn't find any recent examples? Fact is that our prospects have been medicore skaters if you compare them other top countries. Of course there is always exceptions like Kapanen. Luckily future looks brighter.

 

[kelsier]

A lot of talk here since yesterday I see. Anyway, usually when a player is consistent high producer or/and just efficient, most of the times that refers to high hockey IQ. This is what enabled certain someone to be top 5 scorer (per game) in the NHL in both of his first two seasons despite the raw physical surface. Looking at Kakko's numbers (what a terrific year), then reflecting the numbers back to confirm the eye-tests and seeing him pass on the flying colors is quite pleasing and more importantly, it just looks extremely promising. Talking about the hockey IQ, it's that one certain element of the game that no other trait can surpass. It can be extremely huge advantage in the beginning just being able to position correctly when you cannot yet properly match up against the physical strains of a pro league as we've seen in the past. Of course it's much more than just that. Nevertheless, I'm not sure why anyone would be worried about Kakko not having elite NHL level top speed right now especially when the skating itself looks this good. With the bigger kids the speed comes little later and he's got tons of room to develop, which is a great thing. The bad news is that it's going to be a damn long summer ahead!

 

[Ippenator]

You didn't find any recent examples? Fact is that our prospects have been medicore skaters if you compare them other top countries. Of course there is always exceptions like Kapanen. Luckily future looks brighter.

That poster claimed that he couldn’t find any fast Finns from the present or from the past. That just sounded like not bothering to even think before just throwing a hyperbole like that.

And yes there is Haula whom is a speed demon too. But honestly I’m anyway pretty much against the enthusiastic admiring of speed skating over pure skill and great hockey IQ. I’m actually really happy that Finland has been lately producing all these big and skilled guys like Laine, Rantanen, Barkov, Puljujärvi (hopefully he can still become a great player), Borgström and now lately Kotkaniemi.

It was not that long time ago since the Finns were mostly having speedy smallish grinders in the national teams. And even then Finland managed to often beat loaded top national teams. Even if these bigger guys are not speed demons, none of them are really bad skaters. And they have so much benefits from their great size that I’m at least much happier with these kind of players than some speed demons, whom most of the times are quite blind with the puck with their top speeds. There’s no other speed demon than McDavid that can be smart and accurate with most of his plays at top speed, so the speed admiring is just too much in general in my opinion.

It has turned the NHL already to a much more boring league, as the dump and chase is used more and more so the speedy grinder types can effectively get the puck to their team, even if their puck control and passing skills are usually not on a level matching with their skating speed.

I think that this speed admiring is in reality no evolution, but just a fashionable thing in hockey at the moment. I’m quite sure that the overemphasis for admiring speed skating and speed will though change again after a while and become substituted with size and skill again, or maybe with even something else.

It’s just so funny how nowadays social media and masses make all kind of silly things fashionable for a while. Fortnite in video games, or overemphasis on speed admiring in hockey - they are practically the same kind of mass hysteria about nothing special or ground breaking after all...

 

[Blade Paradigm]

Kakko's play along the boards with his ability to pivot, stickhandle around opponents and protect the puck with his frame remind me a lot of Gabe Vilardi.

Kakko has good, but not great straight-line speed -- better than Vilardi does -- but his edge work and ability to retain the puck after eluding defenders is excellent. He plays a European-style power forward game, comparable to Filip Forsberg and Vilardi in a lot of ways: he isn't going to overwhelm the opposition with brute north-south strength and speed or physicality, but has the size, balance, agility and puck skills to protect the puck and maneuver with it in tight spaces. Raphael Lavoie is that speedy, aggressive power forward type.

He hounds the puck and plays a patient possession game, fighting to keep the puck when the opposition is draped all over him in order to open up teammates for pass or create a chance for himself; he'll also carry it around the zone if he sees space available to put himself in a better position to make a play.

There is some great footage of him from the 2018 U18s. bigwhite06 (Feebster on HF) and a new channel called Hockey Prospects Center both do video packages that are more than just goal/assist highlights; rather, their videos show the player's best plays, from takeaways to scoring chances to great passes as well.

I find that Hockey Prospects Center's Kaako video is more tightly-edited, with more plays shown and fewer replays of the same clips; both videos overlap in terms of a lot of footage and are about the same length, but this one flows more quickly -- video isn't quite as crisp as Feebster's, though:

 

[grentthealien]

Kakko's play along the boards with his ability to pivot, stickhandle around opponents and protect the puck with his frame remind me a lot of Gabe Vilardi.

Kakko has good, but not great straight-line speed -- better than Vilardi does -- but his edge work and ability to retain the puck after eluding defenders is excellent. He plays a European-style power forward game, comparable to Filip Forsberg and Vilardi in a lot of ways: he isn't going to overwhelm the opposition with brute north-south strength and speed or physicality, but has the size, balance, agility and puck skills to protect the puck and maneuver with it in tight spaces. Raphael Lavoie is that speedy, aggressive power forward type.

He hounds the puck and plays a patient possession game, fighting to keep the puck when the opposition is draped all over him in order to open up teammates for pass or create a chance for himself; he'll also carry it around the zone if he sees space available to put himself in a better position to make a play.

There is some great footage of him from the 2018 U18s. bigwhite06 (Feebster on HF) and a new channel called Hockey Prospects Center both do video packages that are more than just goal/assist highlights; rather, their videos show the player's best plays, from takeaways to scoring chances to great passes as well.

I find that Hockey Prospects Center's Kaako video is more tightly-edited, with more plays shown and fewer replays of the same clips; both videos overlap in terms of a lot of footage and are about the same length, but this one flows more quickly -- video isn't quite as crisp as Feebster's, though:

Based on that video alone he reminds me of Peter Forsberg with the way he fights off checks to set up teammates or get to the net. Probably not as good a stick handler as Peter, but he has great stick handling nonetheless. Looking forward to seeing what he does this year