Prospect Info: Vitaly Abramov (RW)

[TheDebater]

It's only pretty good if you forget about what was dealt to obtain Duchene.

At one point, sports fans have to move on from certain decisions. You win some and you lose some, maybe in Dorion's case; you win some and lose many but I digress. You can go back with any team and pick one trade and follow its history back towards the original seed and dissect it all you want until it becomes a fragment of space, but it really accomplishes nothing for the betterment of the teams future.

For example, nobody ever makes the statement, "well we basically lost Yashin, Chara and Spezza for Nick Paul " (I believe he is the only piece left from the Spezza trade?). Because if you really want to get specific, we traded Yashin for Spezza (2nd overall pick in 2001), Chara and Bill Muckalt. Chara walks, Spezza is later traded for Chiasson, Paul and a 2nd, and Bill Muckalt is, well who cares.

-Chiasson is traded for Patrick Sieloff, who is later traded for Gibbons who is now gone.
- Second round pick Gabriel Gagne is traded to Leafs for Klimchuk who I do not believe is with the organization anymore

So with that logic, the 2001 trade was Yashin for Nick Paul .

Edit: Correction, Klimchuk is still with Belleville, my mistake.

 

[R2010]

The smartest idea developmentally is to start using the ECHL as a farm team. Give top players top line minutes in the ECHL vs 4th line minutes in the AHL. This is definitely a market inefficiency that we should be taking advantage of.

 

[jhutter]

At one point, sports fans have to move on from certain decisions. You win some and you lose some, maybe in Dorion's case; you win some and lose many but I digress. You can go back with any team and pick one trade and follow its history back towards the original seed and dissect it all you want until it becomes a fragment of space, but it really accomplishes nothing for the betterment of the teams future.

For example, nobody ever makes the statement, "well we basically lost Yashin, Chara and Spezza for Nick Paul " (I believe he is the only piece left from the Spezza trade?). Because if you really want to get specific, we traded Yashin for Spezza (2nd overall pick in 2001), Chara and Bill Muckalt. Chara walks, Spezza is later traded for Chiasson, Paul and a 2nd, and Bill Muckalt is, well who cares.

-Chiasson is traded for Patrick Sieloff, who is later traded for Gibbons who is now gone.
- Second round pick Gabriel Gagne is traded to Leafs for Klimchuk who I do not believe is with the organization anymore

So with that logic, the 2001 trade was Yashin for Nick Paul .

Edit: Correction, Klimchuk is still with Belleville, my mistake.

I agree that as Sens fans (hockey fans in general should do this) we need to move on from the frustration of earlier trades. Continuing to beat on the team for dumb decisions isn't productive, and no team is perfect in its trade history. With that said, it is important to be honest and realistic. With the original trade for Duchene occurring less than two years ago, I don't see how you can't consider what was given up trading for Duchene when evaluating what Duchene brought in a trade. To me, it's like buying an item for $1,000.00 and selling it for $600.00 and being happy that you have $600.00, all while ignoring the fact you paid $1,000.00 to "make" $600.00.

I think its pretty fair to say that Turris and a fourth overall is greater in value than Abramov, Davidsson and a 19th (Thomson). Now of course Thomson could become a superstar, but at this point, it's fairly safe to say most teams would prefer Turris (who had value at the time) and a fourth.

In regards to the Yashin analogy, no one ever makes that statement because it occurred 18 years ago. The Duchene trade wasn't even two years ago - not exactly a sound analogy.

 

[coladin]

He was noticeable, good job Vitaly

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

He kind of reminds me of Michael Cammalleri.

 

[TheDebater]

I agree that as Sens fans (hockey fans in general should do this) we need to move on from the frustration of earlier trades. Continuing to beat on the team for dumb decisions isn't productive, and no team is perfect in its trade history. With that said, it is important to be honest and realistic. With the original trade for Duchene occurring less than two years ago, I don't see how you can't consider what was given up trading for Duchene when evaluating what Duchene brought in a trade. To me, it's like buying an item for $1,000.00 and selling it for $600.00 and being happy that you have $600.00, all while ignoring the fact you paid $1,000.00 to "make" $600.00.

I think its pretty fair to say that Turris and a fourth overall is greater in value than Abramov, Davidsson and a 19th (Thomson). Now of course Thomson could become a superstar, but at this point, it's fairly safe to say most teams would prefer Turris (who had value at the time) and a fourth.

In regards to the Yashin analogy, no one ever makes that statement because it occurred 18 years ago. The Duchene trade wasn't even two years ago - not exactly a sound analogy.

I agree, I picked that analogy specifically to showcase that "over time" it really will not "matter" anymore what the original trade was. The Duchene trade being only two years ago really has no effect on the outcome of future movement and trades. It is what you do with the assets you have that will matter going forward.

 

[jhutter]

I agree, I picked that analogy specifically to showcase that "over time" it really will not "matter" anymore what the original trade was. The Duchene trade being only two years ago really has no effect on the outcome of future movement and trades. It is what you do with the assets you have that will matter going forward.

Got that right! I sure liked Abramov's game last night. He also seems like the kind of player that works his tail off, doesn't complain, and lives and breathes hockey. Love it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The more things change...

 

[FlyguyOX]

Hey guys opposing fan here looking for some Abramov intel. What is the consensus on his upside? I find it hard to think he could be top 6 with your stacked farm + the pick(s) in the 2020 1st round.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Hey guys opposing fan here looking for some Abramov intel. What is the consensus on his upside? I find it hard to think he could be top 6 with your stacked farm + the pick(s) in the 2020 1st round.

I saw him play a few times this past season. I like what I see. He plays like he is bigger than he is. He is keeping on pace with some of the bigger named prospects. It will be interesting.

Ottawa Senators Prospect Update: Heating Up In Belleville

 

[Sweatred]

I could see him challenging to be the 4th best RW in the organization depending where Duc plays. He needs to take a jump but the skill, speed, and core strength are there.

1. Duc
2. Brown
3. Batherson
4. Abramov
5. White

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Hey guys opposing fan here looking for some Abramov intel. What is the consensus on his upside? I find it hard to think he could be top 6 with your stacked farm + the pick(s) in the 2020 1st round.

I think he has substantial upside. He's high skill, goes to the net and is a smart offensive player. Every time I watch him the puck just seems to be around the other team's net when he's on the ice.

I think he needs to work on his explosiveness and if he does I think he's a top 6 forward in the NHL.

 

[dumbdick]

At one point, sports fans have to move on from certain decisions. You win some and you lose some, maybe in Dorion's case; you win some and lose many but I digress. You can go back with any team and pick one trade and follow its history back towards the original seed and dissect it all you want until it becomes a fragment of space, but it really accomplishes nothing for the betterment of the teams future.

For example, nobody ever makes the statement, "well we basically lost Yashin, Chara and Spezza for Nick Paul " (I believe he is the only piece left from the Spezza trade?). Because if you really want to get specific, we traded Yashin for Spezza (2nd overall pick in 2001), Chara and Bill Muckalt. Chara walks, Spezza is later traded for Chiasson, Paul and a 2nd, and Bill Muckalt is, well who cares.

-Chiasson is traded for Patrick Sieloff, who is later traded for Gibbons who is now gone.
- Second round pick Gabriel Gagne is traded to Leafs for Klimchuk who I do not believe is with the organization anymore

So with that logic, the 2001 trade was Yashin for Nick Paul .

Edit: Correction, Klimchuk is still with Belleville, my mistake.

You forgot to mention Alex Guptill, who sits at 4th in ECHL scoring this year. Sadly, this voids your entire analysis.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone play for as many teams in a short span as Alex Guptill.
Alexander Guptill Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[Sweatred]

I agree that as Sens fans (hockey fans in general should do this) we need to move on from the frustration of earlier trades. Continuing to beat on the team for dumb decisions isn't productive, and no team is perfect in its trade history. With that said, it is important to be honest and realistic. With the original trade for Duchene occurring less than two years ago, I don't see how you can't consider what was given up trading for Duchene when evaluating what Duchene brought in a trade. To me, it's like buying an item for $1,000.00 and selling it for $600.00 and being happy that you have $600.00, all while ignoring the fact you paid $1,000.00 to "make" $600.00.

I think its pretty fair to say that Turris and a fourth overall is greater in value than Abramov, Davidsson and a 19th (Thomson). Now of course Thomson could become a superstar, but at this point, it's fairly safe to say most teams would prefer Turris (who had value at the time) and a fourth.

In regards to the Yashin analogy, no one ever makes that statement because it occurred 18 years ago. The Duchene trade wasn't even two years ago - not exactly a sound analogy.

Turris is hardly “OK” and his $36 million contract is a boat anchor. It’s in the Bobby Ryan / Colin White range laced with negative value. I doubt a single team in the league would claim him off waivers.

PD deserves credit for predicting that downfall. Maybe EM forced his hand but it was right at the cusp of the Sens payroll log jam with Ryan,EK, Smith etc and the start of the Sens avoiding retirement contracts.

The Sens will always have a “cheap” label attached to them but avoiding UFA extensions for them is the smartest organizational decision they can make to ensure their competitiveness.

Keeping 4+ UFA’s (extending 6-8 years) probably creates $10-20 negative value+ off a $70 million payroll. That’s like operating with a $55 million payroll. Recycling them for young lottery pieces provides future positive value so now your $70 million payroll is playing like a $90 payroll.... assuming you trade and draft well.

I bet Abramov offers more positive value than Turris over the next 3-4 years.

 

[dumbdick]

Turris is hardly “OK” and his $36 million contract is a boat anchor. It’s in the Bobby Ryan / Colin White range laced with negative value. I doubt a single team in the league would claim him off waivers.

PD deserves credit for predicting that downfall. Maybe EM forced his hand but it was right at the cusp of the Sens payroll log jam with Ryan,EK, Smith etc and the start of the Sens avoiding retirement contracts.

The Sens will always have a “cheap” label attached to them but avoiding UFA extensions for them is the smartest organizational decision they can make to ensure their competitiveness.

Keeping 4+ UFA’s (extending 6-8 years) probably creates $10-20 negative value+ off a $70 million payroll. That’s like operating with a $55 million payroll. Recycling them for young lottery pieces provides future positive value so now your $70 million payroll is playing like a $90 payroll.... assuming you trade and draft well.

I bet Abramov offers more positive value than Turris over the next 3-4 years.

Yeah, I tend to agree. there's a flexibility as well.

Here's our pending free agent matrix. We have one of each!

	SIGN PLAYER	TRADE PLAYER
PLAYER MEETS EXPECTATIONS	A: Thomas Chabot	B: Mark Stone
PLAYER FAILS TO MEET EXPECTATIONS	C: Colin White	D: Erik Karlsson

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There's also the MacKinnon/Pasta/Marchand situation where a player vastly exceeds expectations & salary, but that case is almost too rare to mention. In today's NHL, players often get susbstantially worse but rarely get substantially better.

Karl's assessment might be a bit harsh, but it's trending in that direction.
Signing bad contracts is just so detrimental. I'd rather trade 10 Mark Stones away before taking on a few Bobby Ryans.

Trading away stars hurts, but it doesn't slam the window for years like a terrible contract on a budget team can.

 

[aragorn]

IMO Abramov will likely be traded, there is no room for him on any future roster at LW or RW. Would love to see him & Brannstrom packaged with one of our goalies to acquire another 1st rd pick around 10th, to acquire Askarov.

 

[JungleBeat]

IMO Abramov will likely be traded, there is no room for him on any future roster at LW or RW. Would love to see him & Brannstrom packaged with one of our goalies to acquire another 1st rd pick around 10th, to acquire Askarov.

Trade the short guys eh

 

[Icelevel]

IMO Abramov will likely be traded, there is no room for him on any future roster at LW or RW. Would love to see him & Brannstrom packaged with one of our goalies to acquire another 1st rd pick around 10th, to acquire Askarov.

I can see him being traded. Would depend on what kind of value others put on him and the offers that come in. I like him and am curious to see what he can do.
Would rather give him a shot and then decide. It’s not like his value is going to fall off a cliff and we suffer for it. Team is setup well enough that it’s not a big risk at this point either way. Trade or stay.
But I’d like to see him play for a while.
I’m predicting a 40pt(capable of more) somewhat inconsistent but useful bottom 9 guy

 

[Sweatred]

I can see him being traded. Would depend on what kind of value others put on him and the offers that come in. I like him and am curious to see what he can do.
Would rather give him a shot and then decide. It’s not like his value is going to fall off a cliff and we suffer for it. Team is setup well enough that it’s not a big risk at this point either way. Trade or stay.
But I’d like to see him play for a while.
I’m predicting a 40pt(capable of more) somewhat inconsistent but useful bottom 9 guy

I think he passes White this year if CW doesn’t show up to camp stronger with more confidence. Abramov is short but had much more body strength. He’d have to get an opportunity but I think it would be a shame to sell him without getting him 40 games unless we sell high out of the AHL.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't think Abramov is a future NHL player with the Sens organization.
1. Not the type of prospect DJ is going to love
2. Not high profile enough for Dorion to care too much about
3. Has not shown a lot of improvement in his 2 way play which he needs to do to stay up
4. Not versatile enough to play down the lineup
He's got 5 forwards ahead of him out of Belleville last year looking for spots.. they won't all get one.
Batherson
Norris
Formenton
Brown
Balcers

 

[aragorn]

Trade the short guys eh

No. I'm targeting & going after the best goalie prospect since Price, in a deal that includes a few players that Ottawa doesn't need. It's quite possible Ottawa could come out of this draft with the best centre or LWer in this draft as well as the best defenceman. And if they can swing a deal for Askarov they would also get the best goalie & a potential superstar & game winner in net.

 

[Sweatred]

He will probably start the season as the BSens first line RW. Hopefully he puts up a tonne of points.

I assume he will have one of Norris or Brown as his Center to start the season. We feel a bit thin beyond that in Belleville.

 

[aragorn]

I don't think Abramov is a future NHL player with the Sens organization.
1. Not the type of prospect DJ is going to love
2. Not high profile enough for Dorion to care too much about
3. Has not shown a lot of improvement in his 2 way play which he needs to do to stay up
4. Not versatile enough to play down the lineup
He's got 5 forwards ahead of him out of Belleville last year looking for spots.. they won't all get one.
Batherson
Norris
Formenton
Brown
Balcers

I think Chlapik is ahead of him too, hell, they might even re-sign Sabourin for another yr to be the 4th line enforcer & 13th forward.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think Chlapik is ahead of him too, hell, they might even re-sign Sabourin for another yr to be the 4th line enforcer & 13th forward.

I would put Chlapik ahead too. Rather have the roster spot than Sabourin personally

 

[playasRus]

I love when we start camp giving a guy in each position a chance to show us what he's got. I'm talking Formenton style >10 min x 10 games. Guy gets out played, he gets outplayed, but at least he goes down knowing how much harder he needs to push. When and if he gets called up, then there's no jitters. It's time to show them they need to keep him in the bigs or trade him.