Value of: Rust and Dumoulin

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,555
4,852
burgh
Currently our LD situation is..

Dumoulin
Matheson
Pettersson
POJ
Riikola

All of the bottom four have proven to be 16-20 minute LD guys. The Penguins want to shake up their roster and Dumoulin is one of the few pieces that is at an age where he is going to start declining potentially, we have an abundance of talent behind him, and is a place we can shave off significant cap if we replace him with Riikola or POJ in either a bottom pairing role or whatever.
and it's not like we have top prospects, picks to trade. if we are going to make a trade it 's all we have.
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,555
4,852
burgh
Why?
Bryan Rust WAS exactly Jared Mcann at McCann's age...no, he was actually a few years older than McCann.
Then Sully came along and Rust became his poster boy for favoritism.
The stats between the two were pretty much equal and then Sully glued Rust to either Crosby or Malkin and added an additional 6 or 7 minutes of average ice time to what Rust had during his first couple seasons in the NHL and even 3+ minutes more than his previous season high in average mins per game. And when those 3+, 6 or 7 minutes (as well as the rest of his minutes minus special teams of course) are always next to Sid or Geno then of course his stats are going to take a large bump.
Sullivan was hell bent on Rust being a success and nothing was ever going to stand in the way of that happening.
This isn't to say that Rust sucks IMO, far from it. He has developed into a very good 2-way player and a reliable complementary scorer.
Having said that, his scoring is always going to be reliant on having someone else create that offense. He can't do that on his own and he won't be the catalyst for offense on a line.
People rip on how McCann finished last season but at the same time they seem to forget Rust went 30 games with a single goal only 2 seasons ago.

The major differences between the two have nothing to do with talent and everything to do with opportunities and ice time. And the stark contrast in how Sullivan has handled their development is one of the major reasons why I don't like Sullivan. He has his favorites who are given an abundance of chances and set up for success with ice time and prime linemates and it lasts years with these players given these chances.
While others those opportunities are few and far between and any momentum they begin to get is jerked out from under them...usually for Sullivan to give another opportunity to one of his favorites as if he is looking for a reason for one guy to make a mistake so he has an excuse to put a favorite into a position that weakens the team...and with some disastrous consequences (see benching McCann in game 4 in favor of Sam Lafferty who promptly was responsible for Montreal's first goal on his first shift).
McCann...I mean wow. Not only no chance to develop comfort or consistency on a line, but going into his 3rd season with the team and Sullivan can't even decide on a position for the guy. If you pay close attention, one might be forgiven in thinking that the coach was actively trying to sabotage his development as he's done everything the wrong way.
Look at this year for example. The first few games both statistical and in analytics, McCann, Tanev, Jakowski were dominant. They were the best line and that advantage was our best advantage vs their opponents. And our team has desperately wanted and needed to establish a 3rd line for years. That line showed both results and promise so of course Sullivan pulled it apart after 4 or 5 games for absolutely no reason to play musical chairs with the bottom 6 and now the team is just as unsettled as it has been since winning the cup in their bottom 6.

Still, McCann and Rust are remarkably similar stats wise during similar places in their respective timeline. And McCann has the Tho Rust was playing 16 minutes per game during those seasons and McCann 15. The huge jump in points for Rust coincided with the huge jump in time on ice where he played an average of 19:46 last season (top 30 amongst forwards) and is up there again this year.
Whereas Sullivan is playing McCann at ELEVEN minutes this season. That's a full 4 minutes less than his average of the 15 minutes McCann averaged in each of his first 2 seasons in Pitt. And again, McCann has played well. During the first 5 games he was playing extremely well before Sully did his annual jerking players off lines and bottom 6 shuffle for no reason. His play certainly hasn't warranted a 4 minutes cut in time on ice. But again, this is a major flaw of Sullivan's that nobody mentions. To prove this point, Malkin was one of the best forwards in the league last year despite always getting the "leftover" wingers...there were several games last season where Dom Simon, a guy who can't even get into Calgary's lineup and who's been mostly a healthy scratch this year, saw more ice time than Geno. Sometimes 3 or 4 minutes more while Geno was top 3 in pts per 60.
Or the fact that in this years season opening loss to Philly guess which forward led the Penguins in ice time?
Evan Rodrigues. Not Crosby, not Malkin or even Guentzel. Not the above mentioned Rust or any of the 3rd line guys who were responsible for the teams only offense that night.
Nope. Instead it was a guy making league minimum who was a healthy scratch for the last time the Pens took the ice in losing to Montréal in 4 games...a guy who was scratched for all 4 of those games.
Speaking of Geno/Rust, when E-Rod got hurt, despite the obvious chemistry and how Geno obviously helped Rust elevated his game to a new level, Sullivan takes Rust from Geno's line to place him with Sid and continues to force the duo of Zucker/Geno together despite the obvious lack of fit since day 1. Guys like Geno and Jared are getting obviously Spronged (or Cole'd/Kessel'd if you prefer) because Sullivan allows bias to dictate or influence lineup calls...often blatant in his "earn your opportunities" philosophy he often quotes yet there's very little evidence of.
I personally think the players notice (you'd be blind not to) and are sick of it. They see personal grudges or favoritism affecting the bottom line and see the incompetence. Pascal confirmed such a couple seasons back and how much worse is it with the passage of time.
As for Rust and McCann, I give Jared credit for producing despite the 4 minutes of ice time slashed from him. And for also having the talent and ability to create the offense for his line. Rust doesn't have such an ability yet to his credit, unlike Sully's other favorites, Rust thus far has taken full advantage of his opportunities.
Still, I can't help but wonder how much better off this team could be with some consistency throughout the lineup from the coaches. And I have to laugh for those who seem to be of the opinion that he's hovering around the untouchable status.
feel better now?
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,521
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Well this thread got cringy pretty quick.

The Penguins fan hatred of Jared McCann is one of the more bizarre things I’ve seen for a team that says it’s desperately needing defensively sound, offensively talented bottom six forwards.

"we need a young bottom 6 forward that can provide offense!" *insert McCann* "Nooo! Not like thaaaaaat!"

Gaudette?

Nah, Pettersson isn't available for Gaudette alone. I would say Riikola for Gaudette is probably a fair swap 1:1 though.
 

elitepete

Registered User
Jan 30, 2017
8,135
5,452
Vancouver
Well this thread got cringy pretty quick.



"we need a young bottom 6 forward that can provide offense!" *insert McCann* "Nooo! Not like thaaaaaat!"



Nah, Pettersson isn't available for Gaudette alone. I would say Riikola for Gaudette is probably a fair swap 1:1 though.
Riikola for Gaudette is terrible for the Canucks.

Me and the other Pens fan agreed to Virtanen+Gaudette for Pettersson+2022 3rd.
 

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