Russians older than advertised?

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Artie

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Seachd said:
Why were many Russians passed by in the draft? McKeen's has an interesting theory...

They say a lot of the Russians (60-70%) are said to have false birthdates, and are most likely older than is said. One player who they say is "almost certainly older than listed" is Viktor Alexandrov, who may have been born as early as 1983, they speculate.

I found this extremely interesting.

Clearly this calls for an investigation. I would nominate Fernando Valenzuela to head the commission. ;)
 
Crosbyfan said:
My thought as well, although I suspect his birthdate is pretty solid seeing as he has somewhat famous parents in the Russian sporting world.

I doubt Ovechkin's birthdate is fake either, but I don't think having famous parents really help. Alexandrov's father played for the Soviet national hockey team and his birthdate is in question.
 

thrashers=cup05

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Seachd said:
Yes, which McKeen's says is even more reason to not believe his birthdate.

(BTW, he was born in Kazakhstan, but he considers himself Russian, and will play for Russia in the future.)

Yes, listen to the canadian who thinks the commies lie about there age. Big deal
 

Seachd

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thrashers=cup05 said:
Yes, listen to the canadian who thinks the commies lie about there age. Big deal
First of all, who said anything about Canadians?
Secondly, who said anything about communists?
Thirdly, what are you talking about?
 

TVanek26*

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A good 1 on 1 would be Ovechkin's Mom vs Kovalchuk's Dad in Basketball...Kovalchuk's dad played professional Basketball too....


And look at Soriano.Texas Rangers though he was 25 until Soriano told him he was actually 29....
 

RussianProspects

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This thread was brought to our attention by some of our readers. This is likely a slight oversight on the part of McKeen's Hockey, who usually deliver high quality, and well researched prospect content. These allegations for the scale of 60-70% are simply not true. Please read the explanation of our reasoning below.

Every year there are a few guys (one two or three) that come out and their DOB is questioned. The Russian players from the 2004 NHL Entry Draft are Viktor Alexandrov (3rd round pick) and Dmitri Shitikov (undrafted). Last year some questions surfaced regarding Kastytsin (Montreal Canadiens pick in the 1st round), but no one had any proof to back up these allegations, and by themselves all that the baseless allegations do is hurt the player and the sport.

No one really has any hard evidence to back these things up, as the players posess legal documents that are real and valid, and no one can really prove whether they were made when the player was born or three years ago.

Again, there are only a couple of cases of this occcurance every year, NOT even close to the 60-70% allegation.
 

Hossa

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RussianProspects said:
This thread was brought to our attention by some of our readers. This is likely a slight oversight on the part of McKeen's Hockey, who usually deliver high quality, and well researched prospect content. These allegations for the scale of 60-70% are simply not true. Please read the explanation of our reasoning below.

Every year there are a few guys (one two or three) that come out and their DOB is questioned. The Russian players from the 2004 NHL Entry Draft are Viktor Alexandrov (3rd round pick) and Dmitri Shitikov (undrafted). Last year some questions surfaced regarding Kastytsin (Montreal Canadiens pick in the 1st round), but no one had any proof to back up these allegations, and by themselves all that the baseless allegations do is hurt the player and the sport.

No one really has any hard evidence to back these things up, as the players posess legal documents that are real and valid, and no one can really prove whether they were made when the player was born or three years ago.

Again, there are only a couple of cases of this occcurance every year, NOT even close to the 60-70% allegation.

Was Konstantin Zakharov not another case last year?

I remember THN, which avoids saying overly controversial things about prospects (unlike Redline for example) said in its draft preview, that there were questions about Zakharov's age. This was on the heels of the U-18s, where he and Kastsitsyn lit it up. Zakharov is the player that comes to mind for me in all of this.
 

Steve Latin*

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Voodoo said:
I hope this is dealt with before it becomes a serious problem.
Baseball has similar issues with Cubans and Dominicans and it's a joke.

Danny Almonte, anyone? :)

S L
 

RussianProspects

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Hossa, yes that is correct, Zakharov was another one of those players. However, as in the case of the other players, the lack of proof leaves this as nothing more than an allegation without a base, which only serves to hurt the player's reputation.
 

db23

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If Kastitsyn is older than 19, Trevor Timmins should be fired. As it was there were a handful of 17 and 18 year olds that played ahead of him for CSKA this past season. If he is 20 or 21, he will play the rest of his career in Belarus.
 

Hiishawk

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RussianProspects said:
Hossa, yes that is correct, Zakharov was another one of those players. However, as in the case of the other players, the lack of proof leaves this as nothing more than an allegation without a base, which only serves to hurt the player's reputation.

I generally trust what you say (since citizens' data during the Soviet era- when these players were born- was closely recorded)...but you say the allegations are BASEless. If so, what is the BASIS from which McKeen's (and, yes, a few other sources) received this information and believed it enough to print it? I feel confident that they (or someone else) didn't just make it up out of thin air.
 

RussianProspects

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All these players have completely legitimate birth certificates, it's just a question of when they got them. I stand corrected, the allegation may have a base in someone's testimony or a rumor, but it is nothing that will hold up in a court room, making it legally without a base. These sources received the information and believed it true enought to print as an allegation or a rumor. No one printed it as fact since they can be sued for slender if they do not present sufficient proof.
 

Hiishawk

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RussianProspects said:
All these players have completely legitimate birth certificates, it's just a question of when they got them. I stand corrected, the allegation may have a base in someone's testimony or a rumor, but it is nothing that will hold up in a court room, making it legally without a base. These sources received the information and believed it true enought to print as an allegation or a rumor. No one printed it as fact since they can be sued for slender if they do not present sufficient proof.

Unfortunately, it seems that this rumour or possible false testimony affected the draft position of Alexandrov and contributed to the non-drafting of Shitikov. In other words, it seems that enough NHL teams took it seriously- unlike the results with Kasistsyn. Misinformation is rife among rival scouts (for obvious reasons) but it seems that many bought into this one. any ideas as to why? And why specifically those two players?
 

Fredrik

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steblick said:
any ideas as to why? And why specifically those two players?

For Alexandrov my guess would be that his development slowed down considerably. If I remember correctly his numbers the last season in Ust-Kamenogorsk was on par or even better than Kovalchuk at the same age.
 

db23

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I suspect PAVEL VOROBIEV.

Take a look at the guy. He looks like the father of one fo his teammates. :eek:
 

West

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Can't speak to his upper league numbers but he went from 0 pts in 13 games to 9pts in 56 in the super league which is a pretty good improvement.

Also it should be remembered that Igor Mirinov went 60 something last year and he's a little taller got more points in less games and had way more PIM.

I think that not being on a WJC team hurt him and Mirinov more than any rumors about his age. Both are steals going where they did IMO.
 

waiverdraft33

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Jul 3, 2002
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1. What is Alexandrov's real age? (if not that listed on his birth certificate)
2. Why is this coming out almost a month AFTER the draft? :amazed:
3. How prevalent are these deceptions in Russia? (Mckeens vs. Russian apologists)
4. Wouldn't it be foolish for a player/parent/agent not to dispose of the "hard evidence" (e.g. real birth certificate) demanded by the Russian apologist or erase any hint of tampering with the birth date if they wanted to get away with this deception? :dunno:
 

shveik

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First of all, I have to say that I have no information on the topic of the thread. I have no clue whether the ages of some of the players are as they claim.

But considering how high some of the players in question are regarded, you have to ask yourself: how hard is it for a team that is interested in a player to cross-reference the birth certificate with other information? I mean, is it so hard to track down the classmates of the aforementioned player and ask them? (or just check *their* birth dates ;) ) Information leaves traces all over the place, and if the change is recent, it is very easy to find out.

At the same time the timing of these allegations (right before the draft, so that nobody can do a satisfactory check on time) reeks of purposeful misinformation.
 

db23

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Vorobiev is from Khazakstan, I think. Or one of the Russian satellite countries. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he is older than claimed. In the 2000 draft he was rated as the top European, and came over looking more like a coach than a player. He was drafted quite high, and hasn't really progressed at all since. Other "Russians" drafted later than him, like Frolov, Volchenkov have left him far behind in terms of development.
 

puckstopper101

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Fozz said:
You're kidding right? Pimple-face Kovalchuk still looks like a teenager!
his acne's cleared up quite a bit, but his team pic made him look like he was 25 w/ the acne scars on his face. Shockingly, a lot of girls in Atlanta like him.
 
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