Russia U20 National Team - WJC-2021

[ms35]

[QUOTE = "Caser, post: 174710281, member: 198557"]I'm still a bit disappointed that Beryozkin wasn't given a single chance at the Karjala, but oh welp. [/ QUOTE]

I do not understand much in this matter, but I am sure that playing in the minority a right-handed player on the right is more effective than a left-handed one, he has the ability to throw the puck out of the zone with a comfortable hand ... because there are a lot of such subtleties, share your knowledge

 

[Caser]

[QUOTE = "Caser, post: 174710281, member: 198557"]I'm still a bit disappointed that Beryozkin wasn't given a single chance at the Karjala, but oh welp. [/ QUOTE]

I do not understand much in this matter, but I am sure that playing in the minority a right-handed player on the right is more effective than a left-handed one, he has the ability to throw the puck out of the zone with a comfortable hand ... because there are a lot of such subtleties, share your knowledge

As for forwards, I don't think it matters that much on the penalty kill, but on the powerplay it is obviously good to have a right-shooting player in the left circle.

As for defenders, the popular opinion is that for a right-handed D it is easier to keep the puck in the offensive zone, as the defending side will try to get it out of the zone along the boards.

 

[ms35]

the first number is the number of right-handed defenders, the second is the number of right-handed attackers:
America 3-5
Canada 5-5
Sweden 2-5
Finland 3-4
Czech Republic 4-5
Russia 0-1

 

[Caser]

Units from the last practice:

Goalkeepers: Askarov, Akhtyamov, Skotnikov
Whites: Mukhamadullin, Chistyakov - Amirov, Khusnutdinov, Podkolzin
Blues: Chayka, Kuznetsov - Gritsyuk, Safonov, Firstov
Reds: Kirsanov, Knyazev - Afanasyev, Ponomaryov, Groshev, Abramov
Greens: Bychkov, Shekhovtsov - Spiridonov, Bardakov, Chinakhov, Bashkirov

 

[cska78]

While I had never thought we can seriously challenge for gold, this team is beyond disappointment. From coaching, to the goal, to D and this time there was nobody on offense either.

 

[Caser]

An extremely unattractive team (aside from the skating, of course), it makes total sense that there are no medals, unfortunately.

 

[Atas2000]

An extremely unattractive team (aside from the skating, of course), it makes total sense that there are no medals, unfortunately.

More like a coach who can't even squeeze the minimum out of them.

 

[Atas2000]

The shortest version of my impressions is: fire Larionov. He is not 1/100 of a coach Bragin is. And it is funny how much he resembles his former teammate Bykov.

 

[Caser]

The shortest version of my impressions is: fire Larionov. He is not 1/100 of a coach Bragin is. And it is funny how much he resembles his former teammate Bykov.

I must admit I had a bit of a flashback from Vancouver 2010 when I watched the semifinal due to how helpless they looked and how the lines were changed in a random and chaotic way, but at least you could see some sort of an idea in Bykov's concept, not to mention his previous successes.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

It was an epic fail, indeed. Very poor work by the coaching staff, I think these kids could've performed better.

 

[VVP]

Wrote in the Juniors board but Russia has talent to compete every year. We do not have the brains behind the system to understand what it takes to win it. All they need to do is learn from US and Finland - Canada is a little bit different. We don't have right level of hustle/sacrifice and we do not have the right tactics. Bragin had the first part but did not have the second. You can say 2011 was fluke because of the third period but other then that Bragin's tactics are not exactly what wins Gold medal games. But his ability to rally the troops needs to be studied - it was second to none. With Larionov we lost that part and regressed in tactics as well.

 

[Caser]

Time for some post-WJC stuff I guess. No medals, overall disappointing game even after having a certain advantage in preparation and after a pretty hopeful Karjala tournament.

• If we look back at the games, then we can notice that we actually played Top6 instead of Karjala's Top9 right from the start. WHY????? I mean, I thought it was obvious that we have enough firepower in the attack and that's our main strength, why wouldn't we want to use it?

• From that Top6 comes the consequence of Abramov not making the initial game roster, but when he finally did make it, he was one of the best players there and that is just so absurd.

• So much talk about the "Soviet-style" hockey, but aside of the skating and puck possession there's just nothing: we enter the attacking zone along the boards and than just start skating and passing the puck along the perimeter, finishing that with a long-range shot (which sometimes generates a deflection or rebound though), that's not a "Soviet-style" hockey, I actually doubt that it is hockey at all. I mean, just think about it: 3 goals in 3 games after the group stage including 2 against Germany!!!

• After Karjala I already told that Podkolzin and Khusnutdinov on the same line is an awful idea and I think that this WJC proves it - they both had an individually strong tournament, but not as a unit at all, their styles are just not too compatible. Podkolzin will run away from SKA just for them to not to play together ever again.

• At the beginning I had concerns about not having much right-handed guys for the powerplay, but in the end it was fine - we just didn't shoot one-timers from the circles on the PP (ok, almost). Who needs to score on the PP anyway.

• Who would've thought that in the end the NCAA guys without much game practice were the weakest guys on the rosters (except Shekhovtsov, of course, but I don't want to even remember about him)?

• Some second-tier leaders didn't deliver too: Chinakhov certainly isn't comfortable with that kind of perimeter-attack stuff, not to mention that his chemistry with Safonov didn't exactly work from the start and was quickly disbanded, an injury later on also didn't help. Btw, about leaders, did anyone notice if Amirov was playing in the last 3 games or he just wasn't in the right mood for hockey again?

• Defense was actually subpar as expected, no real surprises there. With that type of D, Askarov should've been better, yes, but #*%@, all these hyenas bashing him now are making me furious. Kid needs to calm down, that's true, but that is not an easy task with a D like that and no GK coach by his side (he managed to do that in the Bronze game, btw). At the end of the day, we didn't lose any games because of him anyway.

• Larionov... I don't even know what to say, it was a disaster, but maybe I would've been fine with giving him a second chance, if only he could keep his mouth shut (and hopefully would transfer that energy into work), but since he just can't I'd say just fire him and put Golubovich instead (he isn't perfect at all, but at least 2002 borns is his team).

 

[Caser]

Oh, and I totally forgot: those Podkolzin's bench performaces - that's not something players should do during the game, it's what coaches should do in the intermission.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Oh, and I totally forgot: those Podkolzin's bench performaces - that's not something players should do during the game, it's what coaches should do in the intermission.

True, shows that Larionov wasn't able to push them on and motivate them.

 

[Yakushev72]

Wrote in the Juniors board but Russia has talent to compete every year. We do not have the brains behind the system to understand what it takes to win it. All they need to do is learn from US and Finland - Canada is a little bit different. We don't have right level of hustle/sacrifice and we do not have the right tactics. Bragin had the first part but did not have the second. You can say 2011 was fluke because of the third period but other then that Bragin's tactics are not exactly what wins Gold medal games. But his ability to rally the troops needs to be studied - it was second to none. With Larionov we lost that part and regressed in tactics as well.

I don't agree with the premise that the RHF should learn from the US and Finland, although I still strongly advocate forming National Youth Teams at various levels and entering them as intact teams in the KHL, VHL or MHL regular seasons for competition, whichever would offer maximum benefit to the individual team. That would be somewhat similar to the US National Development Team Program, which directly copied the Soviet model to create "Super Teams" for competition at various youth levels. The USA is dominant at U16-U18, but then starts to fizzle a bit at U20 (despite having won this year), and fizzle out totally at the Senior level, where America hasn't won a World or Olympic Championship in 41 years. I agree with what Tarasov said, "We have to create something that is uniquely our own."

Let's be honest, the Soviet school of hockey is never coming back, for better or worse. There are some aspects of it that I would love to see resurrected, but it is just not looked at as being practical or feasible to do so, and it isn't going to happen. But out of respect for one of the greatest traditions, and one of the greatest success stories in World sport history, let's not call what Larionov claims to have installed as "Soviet hockey." To me, that almost seems like a "desecration." Its like going into an Orthodox Church and smashing the icons on the floor. What Larionov created was dog crap, not Soviet hockey. Even though the team lacked talent and depth, they were no less talented than Finland, and they did manage to beat the USA in the preliminary round.

I always liked Bragin and recognized everything he accomplished, although I thought it was time to move on after failing to win Gold in 2019 and 2020, when I thought the teams were good enough to have done so. Now, after Larionov, I really miss him! I am absolutely convinced that he would have won a medal with the 2021 team. Assuming Larionov is history, I don't know where they go in the future, but I am really impressed with Filatov as a potential candidate. I really liked his attacking-style defense in the neutral zone, very aggressive, and the fact that he seemed to get the kids to believe in themselves and play with a lot of emotion. We'll see what happens.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

I don't agree with the premise that the RHF should learn from the US and Finland, although I still strongly advocate forming National Youth Teams at various levels and entering them as intact teams in the KHL, VHL or MHL regular seasons for competition, whichever would offer maximum benefit to the individual team. That would be somewhat similar to the US National Development Team Program, which directly copied the Soviet model to create "Super Teams" for competition at various youth levels. The USA is dominant at U16-U18, but then starts to fizzle a bit at U20 (despite having won this year), and fizzle out totally at the Senior level, where America hasn't won a World or Olympic Championship in 41 years. I agree with what Tarasov said, "We have to create something that is uniquely our own."

Let's be honest, the Soviet school of hockey is never coming back, for better or worse. There are some aspects of it that I would love to see resurrected, but it is just not looked at as being practical or feasible to do so, and it isn't going to happen. But out of respect for one of the greatest traditions, and one of the greatest success stories in World sport history, let's not call what Larionov claims to have installed as "Soviet hockey." To me, that almost seems like a "desecration." Its like going into an Orthodox Church and smashing the icons on the floor. What Larionov created was dog crap, not Soviet hockey. Even though the team lacked talent and depth, they were no less talented than Finland, and they did manage to beat the USA in the preliminary round.

I always liked Bragin and recognized everything he accomplished, although I thought it was time to move on after failing to win Gold in 2019 and 2020, when I thought the teams were good enough to have done so. Now, after Larionov, I really miss him! I am absolutely convinced that he would have won a medal with the 2021 team. Assuming Larionov is history, I don't know where they go in the future, but I am really impressed with Filatov as a potential candidate. I really liked his attacking-style defense in the neutral zone, very aggressive, and the fact that he seemed to get the kids to believe in themselves and play with a lot of emotion. We'll see what happens.

Larionov has not been fired, it's already happened. He's staying, which is bad news. I agree that Bragin would've had better results too, but apparently they're convinced they need someone new and, for some reason, they think Larionov is up to the task. Despite his greatness as a hockey player, he had zero experience as coach and it really showed in this tournament. Can he learn to be a good coach within 1 year's time? Highly improbable.

 

[Yakushev72]

Larionov has not been fired, it's already happened. He's staying, which is bad news. I agree that Bragin would've had better results too, but apparently they're convinced they need someone new and, for some reason, they think Larionov is up to the task. Despite his greatness as a hockey player, he had zero experience as coach and it really showed in this tournament. Can he learn to be a good coach within 1 year's time? Highly improbable.

What is funny about Larionov being a coach (although I guess its not really that funny) is that when he was a player, he made a name for himself by trying to lead a revolt against his coach, Viktor Tikhonov. A lot of people resented the fact that among the members of the First Unit back in the 1980's (Krutov-Larionov-Makarov; Fetisov-Kasatonov), Larionov was considered to be the least valuable and the most easily replaceable. They thought a more valuable or more respected member should have taken on the role as spokesman for the players. So it puts at least some pressure on him to show up Tikhonov and to show how good he is as a coach.

Can he learn to be a good coach within 1 year's time? For what it is worth, my opinion is no! I see coaching as being a long-term maturation process. The good ones learn as they go along, but probably no one is good overnight. I think most coaches develop successful methods and techniques by trial and error over time. It is easy to think that an experienced former player can just step right in and be successful, but it often does not work that way. If, from the wreckage, he is able to identify problems and propose potential solutions, maybe it might be successful long-term, but I have a hard time seeing him with a third year of 2022 looks anything liker 2021.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

What is funny about Larionov being a coach (although I guess its not really that funny) is that when he was a player, he made a name for himself by trying to lead a revolt against his coach, Viktor Tikhonov. A lot of people resented the fact that among the members of the First Unit back in the 1980's (Krutov-Larionov-Makarov; Fetisov-Kasatonov), Larionov was considered to be the least valuable and the most easily replaceable. They thought a more valuable or more respected member should have taken on the role as spokesman for the players. So it puts at least some pressure on him to show up Tikhonov and to show how good he is as a coach.

Can he learn to be a good coach within 1 year's time? For what it is worth, my opinion is no! I see coaching as being a long-term maturation process. The good ones learn as they go along, but probably no one is good overnight. I think most coaches develop successful methods and techniques by trial and error over time. It is easy to think that an experienced former player can just step right in and be successful, but it often does not work that way. If, from the wreckage, he is able to identify problems and propose potential solutions, maybe it might be successful long-term, but I have a hard time seeing him with a third year of 2022 looks anything liker 2021.

Indeed. For now, I will assume that Russia will flop again next year. He might be removed afterwards since, although corruption is widespread in these official circles, hockey can become such a visible wart on the "surface" that these officials will be forced to. After all, even they benefit from international "success" since they can report up and say "everything is fine, look".

As for Larionov himself, I think he was a great player but my opinion of him as a person is negative. He's become a clever businessman and "smooth talker", trying to sell himself whenever and wherever he can, however, I do not think his concern for the Russian junior team is genuine. Perhaps it is, only in the sense of his own wallet and/or reputation. His "passion" is winemaking anyway. And as for Tikhonov, it's not for him to judge that great coach. His constant whining about the "oppressive Soviet system" and all that BS is just ludicrous, considering the fact that this system made him what he is anyway. You don't bite the hand that feeds. In effect, he has already betrayed his Rodina (Motherland) long ago and now he's back to make more dollars off of her.

 

[cska78]

The fact, that Larionov has been retained is likely a negative, the only positive in it, that FHR is not trying to jump to quick conclusion, but from what I had seen, he was just a face behind the bench. I didn't understand what he was trying to have his team play, sure wasn't a game to win anything meaningful.
The problem is, that Bragin coached from assessing the strength and weakness first and foremost, and Larionov tried to coach from strength, which don't exist for the past 25 years or so.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The shortest version of my impressions is: fire Larionov. He is not 1/100 of a coach Bragin is. And it is funny how much he resembles his former teammate Bykov.

Lol, what coach Bragin is we see pretty well in the KHL. Larionov at least sees any place but 1st as a failure. His team played well untill about post Sweden games, where they looked gassed. Let's see, what he'll do next year.

 

[Yakushev72]

When you attempt to find a rational basis for how Larionov ended up as coach, with no prior experience and business interests (selling players to North America) that conflict with the role of a non-invested coach, the only answer that makes sense is cronyism. At the expense of the fans who support Russian hockey, Larionov was fast-tracked into the role by some big shot, likely Rotenberg. As a player agent, he can award his clients high-profile extra minutes of playing time in prestigious international tournaments like the WJC. Really good young coaches like Filatov are sent a message to go back to the end of the line and continue to wait their turn. What tools Larionov might have in his arsenal to get a better outcome next year, I have no idea!

 

[Atas2000]

Lol, what coach Bragin is we see pretty well in the KHL. Larionov at least sees any place but 1st as a failure. His team played well untill about post Sweden games, where they looked gassed. Let's see, what he'll do next year.

Any coach that sees any place but the 1st at WJC as a failure is an idiot. Is Larionov an idiot? Bingo!

Anyway, what is this crap about Bragin? His team is 5th in the league after a bad stretch and with a pretty mediocre roster this year Bragin is certainly not responsible for. At EHT his team just blasted everyone. Your haterism is pretty funny.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

When you attempt to find a rational basis for how Larionov ended up as coach, with no prior experience and business interests (selling players to North America) that conflict with the role of a non-invested coach, the only answer that makes sense is cronyism. At the expense of the fans who support Russian hockey, Larionov was fast-tracked into the role by some big shot, likely Rotenberg. As a player agent, he can award his clients high-profile extra minutes of playing time in prestigious international tournaments like the WJC. Really good young coaches like Filatov are sent a message to go back to the end of the line and continue to wait their turn. What tools Larionov might have in his arsenal to get a better outcome next year, I have no idea!

Tretyak could have also given him the spot with the "former teammate" card. They should've just let Bragin continue, eventually one of his teams would've "punched through" to Gold (they came very close last year) regardless of talent level. His teams had grit and fight in them.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Any coach that sees any place but the 1st at WJC as a failure is an idiot. Is Larionov an idiot? Bingo!

Anyway, what is this crap about Bragin? His team is 5th in the league after a bad stretch and with a pretty mediocre roster this year Bragin is certainly not responsible for. At EHT his team just blasted everyone. Your haterism is pretty funny.

You're just too young and don't remeber, when it was different. For Canadians it's true right now, and it used to be true for us. Larionov wants to get that time back.

And as to Bragin, ask SKA fans, what they think about the team. I bet, you'll find out new interesting Russian words and phrases...

 

[Atas2000]

You're just too young and don't remeber, when it was different. For Canadians it's true right now, and it used to be true for us. Larionov wants to get that time back.

And as to Bragin, ask SKA fans, what they think about the team. I bet, you'll find out new interesting Russian words and phrases...

Thank you, young man

But I am too old to not be a realist. Those days when soviet teams were dominant and anything but first place was a defeat are over.

Larionov though certainly doesn't want this time back. He hated it then and he is too much of an egoist to care.

I am also too old to listen to mindless fan chatter of mostly kids(SKA fan base id fairly young too due to team history). What do I care for their haterism even less logical than yours?

Bragin this year was given a pretty dull roster without a real first line. Just a huge bunch of 2nd and 3rd liners. Nobody in his right mind expects him to win with that. He would have to be extremely lucky to beat Nikitin's machine he built for years and then whoever takes the East. Also let's crap at the coach in his first year with the team he is basically just starting to mold to his game. Bragin will be fine. Thanks for asking.