Russia U20 National Team - WJC-2018

Yakushev72

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Dec 27, 2010
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Investments in what? No one is really doubting the existence of money flows in Russian hockey. The real question though is about how this money is being used, and whether faith in privatized funding - and its inevitable bottom line of profit-earning - is justified.

I really do not see much overlap in interests between the KHL as a business and player development. It's like apples and oranges. The KHL will make money with clubs signing guys like Steve Moses to contracts. But with prospects you need patience and a belief in something outside of that bottom line.

Take a prospect like Andrei Svechnikov. If he becomes a great NHLer this would be great news for Russian player development. But it will in no way benefit businessmen who make their money off the KHL. So I don't get why we're looking to them to be sensitive to the matters of player development.

Maybe I am missing something, so please explain it to me. And while you are at it, explain to me what incentives are in place to bring back the U18 team in the MHL and what incentives are in place to improve the lives and playing conditions of young players in general?

If they are waiting for private investment money to be available for investment in hockey outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, they are going to waiting for 40 or 50 years, or maybe never. Maybe a few oil cities, but not nearly enough to bridge the huge gap enjoyed by Canada, the US, Sweden and Finland. It has to be the government or nothing. Maybe in the US or Canada the local population pays enough tax money to fund building rinks and paying coaches, but not in Russia. It has to come out of Moscow, or not at all.
 
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Yakushev72

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
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You are being unfair to some places called Kazan, Novokuznetsk AND Moscow, so your list should be way longer. This gives us enough schols to buils around, but you have to build around and not wait till the schools produce DESPITE the state of things.

I think I did include Novokuznetsk on my list. If I didn't, it was an accident. I don't see a long line of hockey greats coming out of Kazan, but maybe I am not giving enough credit. Moscow is a different story altogether. I am looking at per capita production of hockey players, and Moscow and its suburbs have a population of 20 million, more than Sweden and Finland combined. As Gena Tsygankov observed, hockey in the 60's, 70's and 80's was Moscow driven, but tell me if I am wrong in saying that production in the Moscow area has fallen far off. Not nearly as bad as St. Petersburg, but still very underproductive. But I agree with your main point, which is that the whole country should begin to produce players. Canada's strength is not in quality - I think their youth programs don't train in skills. Their strength is the sheer numbers that they produce.
 
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DivochLubo

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Feb 28, 2007
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I think I did include Novokuznetsk on my list. If I didn't, it was an accident. I don't see a long line of hockey greats coming out of Kazan, but maybe I am not giving enough credit. Moscow is a different story altogether. I am looking at per capita production of hockey players, and Moscow and its suburbs have a population of 20 million, more than Sweden and Finland combined. As Gena Tsygankov observed, hockey in the 60's, 70's and 80's was Moscow driven, but tell me if I am wrong in saying that production in the Moscow area has fallen far off. Not nearly as bad as St. Petersburg, but still very underproductive. But I agree with your main point, which is that the whole country should begin to produce players. Canada's strength is not in quality - I think their youth programs don't train in skills. Their strength is the sheer numbers that they produce.

Of course strenght of US or Canada is in numbers, but same goes for skills. Look at there skills and speed combination. How they lead puck on top speed, shoot fast from pass and more. Think is kind of old time Russia hockey top speed,skill,combination style. But same goes for Sweden, Finland in matter of skills with way lower depth of players.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
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I think I did include Novokuznetsk on my list. If I didn't, it was an accident. I don't see a long line of hockey greats coming out of Kazan, but maybe I am not giving enough credit.

Instead of acknowledging the fact of a new school able to produce talent, something you must be glad to see, you just choose to pass it over. Okay. I won't even get defensive and give you the names. Make an effort and find out yourself if you are interested.

Moscow is a different story altogether. I am looking at per capita production of hockey players, and Moscow and its suburbs have a population of 20 million, more than Sweden and Finland combined.

You are living in the past. What does it have to do with anything now? Per capita production? We are not in medieval Europe, social structures are way more complex. An average kid from Moscow doesn't see himself as a future hockey pro, not by a long shot. Moscow schools are good for producing a Kucherov though, a kid born in Maikop. The Moscow aglomeration obviously offers a better chance for parents who happen to have a talented hockey kid to find appropriate jobs too, right? Moving to Chalyabinsk to have your kid at a good hockey school might be a very different story. No offence to Chekyabinsk as a city. The real problem with Moscow schools is the rotten, corrupt infrastructure of those schools at the bottom level at least. If they could get rid of that Moscow would produce tons of talent. There has to be some will to clean the houses within the organizations though. And still a Moscow kid on the average won't be a happy hockey scholar. They will always produce less talent per capita. Who cares if they produce at least just as much as Chelyabinsk on regular basis?

As Gena Tsygankov observed, hockey in the 60's, 70's and 80's was Moscow driven, but tell me if I am wrong in saying that production in the Moscow area has fallen far off. Not nearly as bad as St. Petersburg, but still very underproductive. But I agree with your main point, which is that the whole country should begin to produce players. Canada's strength is not in quality - I think their youth programs don't train in skills. Their strength is the sheer numbers that they produce.

Numbers always give you the pool of talent to choose from. No doubt, we should aim to produce numbers too.
 
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Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
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If they are waiting for private investment money to be available for investment in hockey outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, they are going to waiting for 40 or 50 years, or maybe never. Maybe a few oil cities, but not nearly enough to bridge the huge gap enjoyed by Canada, the US, Sweden and Finland. It has to be the government or nothing. Maybe in the US or Canada the local population pays enough tax money to fund building rinks and paying coaches, but not in Russia. It has to come out of Moscow, or not at all.
That is a rather antiquated view of Russia actually. Starting with 40-50 years and "oil cities" and ending with tax money.

That doesn't mean investor money or tax money wll flood hockey right away. It's a major change of philosophy. People hate change.But the problem is changing the way of thinking, not the money. Your ideas about Russia's finances are 10 years behind the reality at least.
 
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RossiyaSport

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Aug 18, 2017
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Something to also consider is Russia is much more competitive in more sports than Canada and Finland. Canada is basically non existent in Summer Olympics sports. In Winter Olympics sports Canada was given a helping hand when all the X Games events were added to the program. Now that gap is closing. And what is Finland competitive in beyond hockey.

Just stopping the ruining of prospects by the CHL would be an instant big boost.
 

cska78

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
12,755
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USA
www.fc-rostov.ru
Something to also consider is Russia is much more competitive in more sports than Canada and Finland. Canada is basically non existent in Summer Olympics sports. In Winter Olympics sports Canada was given a helping hand when all the X Games events were added to the program. Now that gap is closing. And what is Finland competitive in beyond hockey.

Just stopping the ruining of prospects by the CHL would be an instant big boost.
how about skis?
 

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