Russia U20 National Team - WJC-2018

Discussion in 'Russia' started by Caser, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    In comparison to the Russian players, the NA players were garbage. And that is the problem, the best and most promising talents go to NA and turn to garbage. Time to set up a NT system and let the NA players concentrate on the CHL.
     
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  2. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Absolutely agree. I was totally in favor of the U18 team, and that concept has to be introduced to the U18 and U20 teams. The kids need a system to play effectively, and the system has to be headquartered in Russia.
     
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  3. Caser @RUSProspects

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    Wasn't able to watch the game (so you can blame the loss on me), but judging by the highlights, we were playing approximately the same way as before, right?
     
  4. kp61c tovarisch maxim - schas chelust slomau

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    so abramov has one empty-netter for the whole tournament? what an epic regression, jesus. he's such a good player a couple of years back.
    while i hate bragin, i whouldn't put all blame on him, the material he has to work with is plain abysmal. i even feel a bit sorry for him
     
  5. RossiyaSport Registered User

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    I can already envision the life cycle of Svechnikov with NA fans.

    Year 1: OMG we got Svechnikov. Hes so good, the next Ovechkin. With a bit more development he will be a stud.

    Year 2: Flashes of brilliance. When he gets more experience and completely puts it together he will be unstoppable.

    Year 3: He shows some flashes of brilliance but where is the production.

    Year 4: What can we get for this lazy Russian.
     
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  6. kp61c tovarisch maxim - schas chelust slomau

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    yep, svechnikov had some good plays but overall i'm always left wanting for more from him. he's a bit overhyped and i won't be surprised if he slides out of the top 3 picks on the draft day.
     
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  7. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Its mind-boggling that in a country of 144 million citizens, that is the best that can be produced.
     
  8. Caser @RUSProspects

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    So, judging from what I seen (all group stage games and QF highlights), quick thoughts:

    Goalie situation is definitely on coaches: at first, they defined that Melnichuk and Berdin are the guys to go, gave them starts in the exhibitions and then we are going with the 3rd goalie as the starter. I don't have anything against Sukhachyov and I think he did more or less fine, but that whole situation doesn't sound normal to me.

    Defense was actually more or less fine, I expected it to be way worse, so I don't think coaches are the ones to blame here.

    Forwards... here is the biggest disappointment. Sokolov was bad, unfortunately I must admit he shouldn't be there at all, and definitely not on LW... Manukyan actually too, but we didn't have any other right-handed forwards. Abramov was looking very active in the first games, but later it looked like he totally lost his confidence... to be honest I also have here questions to coaches, as I think he could do better with other linemates.

    Sholokhov... again, questions to coaches: why wasn't he taken to the SuperSeries? Probably because coaches didn't count on him (and Bragin himself mentioned Rasseikin as the guy he would like to see on the roster). And again, the situation when a written down player centers the 3rd line is very very strange. Not to mention that, iirc, he played center much less than Abramov this season.

    Maltsev's line wasn't that bad actually (ok, I'd like it to be better defensively), it created some movement in the attacking zone, but it's just not a first line, it is a decent middle-six line.

    Rubtsov was actually a positive surprise, Kayumov more or less too, they were able to find some good chemistry again rather quickly.

    Ivanov's line (or should I say Kostin's line) was probably our most dangerous weapon, but I still have a thought that we should've tried to build a proper first line around Kostin (also to get him more icetime). For example, Kostin-Rubtsov-Kayumov.

    Overall, those lines and line changes were made like they were counting on good luck. PP was non-existing, PK was actually fine.

    So yeah, actually a lot of questions to coaches, probably I can continue with those and maybe it would be a good idea to give some rest to Bragin, but the issue here is that if it is not Bragin, then rather likely it's Golubovich and I doubt that we will like it.
     
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  9. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Way worse than the Sweden game actually. It had glimpses. This one was utterly nothing. It btw says a lot about the US team. They were not anything special either against this russian team.
     
  10. Atas2000 Registered User

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    It is nearly 147, but that doesn't help here, right?

    It is not about population numbers. Availability, popularity and of course schools are what makes the sauce spicy.

    Right now the schools are in disarray because they have no real purpose. A guy like Kostin will run off and talk about how he was entitled to get minutes in the KHL as a 10 year old. What's the benefit of developing players for those schools? And they kick Kuznya out of KHL. And they make it a 2 team league.

    I actually see the situation with the AkBars school which obviously has no financial troubles whatsoever, but... so we develop bunches of players and none of the actually good ones will ever play for our team. Great! Let's do this, let's put some more money and effort into this glorious endeavor. I don't even know what I would do about it as a manager.

    Avalability. We have to give kids from all backgrounds chances. The state has to pay for it. Right now like everywhere in the world hockey is primarily a rich kids sport.

    Popularity. Thanks to the ever absurd media the sport that will probably never deliver for Russia is vastly popular. Obviously I am not talking about hockey.
     
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  11. Fantomas Registered User

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    Bad first period, very workmanlike second and third periods. Honestly the effort was mostly very good. Even the guys who were bad played hard.

    But like in previous games the creativity wasn't there. They were just hoping to win ugly.
     
  12. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Here's my view:

    The decision to stay with Sukhachyov in goal probably had the biggest single effect on the final outcome. He had some good moments, but consistently gave up bad goals in crucial situations to register defeats. For example, in the QF, the 2nd and 3rd US goals could be directly blamed on his blunders. He had tremendous problems with giving up fat, juicy rebounds, and he was always on his knees, which prevented him from covering the net and making second saves. On the 3rd goal, why he would go to his knees for a shot from that distance is beyond me?
    In the end, they couldn't score enough goals to keep up with what he was letting in.

    On defense, no one was great, but Zaitsev, Shepelev and Minulin were probably the best. Samorukov and Makeyev finished in a tie for "worst defenseman."

    At forward, I thought that Kayumov and Sholokov were the best surprises. Kostin had his moments, but his obvious talent level suggests he could have contributed more. Svechnikov had 5 assists over 5 games if I recall correctly, and was always among the top 3 in every game. The Armenian group had very little productivity, although Altabarmakyan had a great goal yesterday. Manukyan was ineffective on the small rinks against big defensemen. Maltsev was the worst - big, fast, and talented, but his attempts to play an individual game failed, and when put under pressure, he turned over the puck and created scoring chances for the opposition. Very mediocre play from the forwards.

    As for coaching, the team looked motivated, but completely lost and confused about where to go and what to do. Saying that the defense played bad is just another way of saying that the coaching was bad. You can take your least talented players and put them on defense, and as long as they have a clear idea of what to do in each situation, they can be effective and help you win. If you look at the "system" teams (USA, Sweden, Finland, etc.), they all seem to know their jobs well and make it near impossible to do yours. That is coaching!

    I have great respect for Bragin. He hasn't done very well the past 2 years, IMO, but I am reluctant to replace him with someone who I believe would do a worse job. Part of the problem of the Russian system is the lack of resources devoted to creating a standard excellence is most acutely felt in the inventory of good coaches. There is no inventory. The only youth coach that intrigues me is Prokhorov, but I don't know if he is the right guy for the U20 job or not. Time for the RHF to start to put it all on the line!
     
  13. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    I completely agree with your analysis. Countries like the USA, Canada, Sweden, and Finland have invested far more overall than Russia in youth hockey development, and now we are even beginning to see good results from the Czechs and Slovaks. Russia needs a well-planned and comprehensive investment in youth development if they want to stay competitive with the fast-improving competition, and built quality into the KHL and other pro leagues.
     
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  14. wings5 Registered User

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    You will see the fruits of the KHL within 5-10 years. It will mean more high end prospects but it will be meaningless if 80% go to North America. What has changed? There used to not be so many Russians going to the CHL, now it seems Russians have replaced Czechs as the Nationality of choice in the CHL Import draft.
     
  15. DivochLubo Registered User

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    Are junior age players getting enough chances at KHL or at least VHL rosters? Can be one of reason why young players leaving Russia for Canada or US system.
     
  16. Fantomas Registered User

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    Based on what?
     
  17. MaxV Registered User

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    Bigger investment, bigger dividends.
     
  18. Fantomas Registered User

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    Investment in what? What does the KHL's growth have to do with prospects?
     
  19. kp61c tovarisch maxim - schas chelust slomau

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    i don't agree, all these investments are mainly in the form of undeserved and amoral salaries to mediocre players/aging stars. they are basically flushing them down the toilet, there's no future in that.
     
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  20. Fantomas Registered User

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    The one silver lining I can see to Russia's QF loss is that it may actually light a fire under Russian officials and make them realize that there is a problem here. Maybe we needed an embarrassment.

    I am so sick of bronze medals. Last year's bronze made me so mad, but not nearly as mad as people patting Bragin on the back for the "good effort."
     
  21. MaxV Registered User

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    Those are some unrealistic expectations.

    Not every draft class will be loaded with talent, that wasn't even happening at the height of the program.
     
  22. MaxV Registered User

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    KHL teams have also invested in their schools.
     
  23. kp61c tovarisch maxim - schas chelust slomau

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    yep, chump change. kovalchuk says hi.
     
  24. MaxV Registered User

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    Chump change adds up.

    Russia produces, steadily.

    It's not Canada nor USA. Less resources. But Russian team can still compete against any team and I think that will continue and then some.
     
  25. kp61c tovarisch maxim - schas chelust slomau

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    sure, whatever keeps you warm at night.
     
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