Russia National Team discussion thread

[Yakushev72]

Good experience for him and Morozov. They seem to be the 2 guys that are viewed as the future of the NT at that position (at least near future).

At the risk of finger-pointing, Morozov made a rookie error that set up the game-winning goal for Canada. He is obviously not used to playing defense, and he fell for the fake that allowed the defenseman to walk in and pass to a wide open forward at the side of the net. I really like him as a prospect for the future, though.

If you evaluate it from every angle, there is nothing that you could take from this tournament that is in any way encouraging about the future of Russian hockey. So little depth of explosive talent - just average guys skating up and down and failing to generate offensive chances. It is hard to remember a Russian national team that was that offensively deficient. That suggests that the system is producing too few good players to produce any kind of excellence. Except for possibly Barabanov, watching the KHL players, it reminds you why they are in the KHL, and not making the big bucks in the NHL. But then when the NHL stars like Tarasenko come limping in for what turned out to be the last 2 games, they really add nothing. More often than not, the big NHL stars like Ovechkin come in and have no beneficial affect at all. Lastly, was it just me, or did the team seem totally devoid of emotion and passion? A lot of people will blame Bragin, and he clearly deserves no praise, but how do you motivate grown men artificially when they don't feel it on their own?

 

[cska78]

At the risk of finger-pointing, Morozov made a rookie error that set up the game-winning goal for Canada. He is obviously not used to playing defense, and he fell for the fake that allowed the defenseman to walk in and pass to a wide open forward at the side of the net. I really like him as a prospect for the future, though.

If you evaluate it from every angle, there is nothing that you could take from this tournament that is in any way encouraging about the future of Russian hockey. So little depth of explosive talent - just average guys skating up and down and failing to generate offensive chances. It is hard to remember a Russian national team that was that offensively deficient. That suggests that the system is producing too few good players to produce any kind of excellence. Except for possibly Barabanov, watching the KHL players, it reminds you why they are in the KHL, and not making the big bucks in the NHL. But then when the NHL stars like Tarasenko come limping in for what turned out to be the last 2 games, they really add nothing. More often than not, the big NHL stars like Ovechkin come in and have no beneficial affect at all. Lastly, was it just me, or did the team seem totally devoid of emotion and passion? A lot of people will blame Bragin, and he clearly deserves no praise, but how do you motivate grown men artificially when they don't feel it on their own?

you don't call up players who are not motivated no matter the league and the role they play on their club teams.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

At the risk of finger-pointing, Morozov made a rookie error that set up the game-winning goal for Canada. He is obviously not used to playing defense, and he fell for the fake that allowed the defenseman to walk in and pass to a wide open forward at the side of the net. I really like him as a prospect for the future, though.

If you evaluate it from every angle, there is nothing that you could take from this tournament that is in any way encouraging about the future of Russian hockey. So little depth of explosive talent - just average guys skating up and down and failing to generate offensive chances. It is hard to remember a Russian national team that was that offensively deficient. That suggests that the system is producing too few good players to produce any kind of excellence. Except for possibly Barabanov, watching the KHL players, it reminds you why they are in the KHL, and not making the big bucks in the NHL. But then when the NHL stars like Tarasenko come limping in for what turned out to be the last 2 games, they really add nothing. More often than not, the big NHL stars like Ovechkin come in and have no beneficial affect at all. Lastly, was it just me, or did the team seem totally devoid of emotion and passion? A lot of people will blame Bragin, and he clearly deserves no praise, but how do you motivate grown men artificially when they don't feel it on their own?

The 'mojo' was missing. There wasn't any 'fire' to spark them. I wouldn't say the offence has no skill, they do, but I think they lacked a game plan a lot of the time. I don't like the whole 'dump and chase' and 'battle around the boards' strategy that Bragin seems to want from his teams. There's a certain lack of creative fire and passing plays that characterised the best of Soviet hockey. I realise hockey has changed but I think Russia should play to its strengths instead of turning into a 'dump and chase' team.

 

[DivochLubo]

The 'mojo' was missing. There wasn't any 'fire' to spark them. I wouldn't say the offence has no skill, they do, but I think they lacked a game plan a lot of the time. I don't like the whole 'dump and chase' and 'battle around the boards' strategy that Bragin seems to want from his teams. There's a certain lack of creative fire and passing plays that characterised the best of Soviet hockey. I realise hockey has changed but I think Russia should play to its strengths instead of turning into a 'dump and chase' team.

May be it was bad game plan, going slow from defence and just dump and fight. This for me slowing down skill in speed and creativity, that should be used. Many countries trying follow Soviet hockey in speed, skill, creativity, fast combinations. Why then Russian team turn back into old Canadian style?

 

[Yakushev72]

The 'mojo' was missing. There wasn't any 'fire' to spark them. I wouldn't say the offence has no skill, they do, but I think they lacked a game plan a lot of the time. I don't like the whole 'dump and chase' and 'battle around the boards' strategy that Bragin seems to want from his teams. There's a certain lack of creative fire and passing plays that characterised the best of Soviet hockey. I realise hockey has changed but I think Russia should play to its strengths instead of turning into a 'dump and chase' team.

Dump and chase was designed specifically for the small ice of the NHL. On larger European surfaces like Riga, it is futile to dump in and then try to chase the puck the extra long distance. Big ice is designed to carry the puck in, maintain possession, and allow breaking forwards to skate to open ice. Dump and chase really hurt Russia, as did failure to attack close to the net.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Dump and chase was designed specifically for the small ice of the NHL. On larger European surfaces like Riga, it is futile to dump in and then try to chase the puck the extra long distance. Big ice is designed to carry the puck in, maintain possession, and allow breaking forwards to skate to open ice. Dump and chase really hurt Russia, as did failure to attack close to the net.

The thing is, it seems that teams have got used to Russia's style and clog up centre ice and just 'don't let' the Russians start passing around. Rarely did a Russian forward have the opportunity to enter the zone unobstructed. It's probably a conscious strategy by all teams playing against Russia,I guess. But that's Bragin's task to figure out and find a counter-strategy to the counter-strategy. By what we've seen, he hasn't found it or hasn't even thought about it, hoping for the "Avos'", as is said in Russian. That's a sign he should leave his post, to me at least.

 

[Yakushev72]

The thing is, it seems that teams have got used to Russia's style and clog up centre ice and just 'don't let' the Russians start passing around. Rarely did a Russian forward have the opportunity to enter the zone unobstructed. It's probably a conscious strategy by all teams playing against Russia,I guess. But that's Bragin's task to figure out and find a counter-strategy to the counter-strategy. By what we've seen, he hasn't found it or hasn't even thought about it, hoping for the "Avos'", as is said in Russian. That's a sign he should leave his post, to me at least.

Russian teams, especially Soviet teams, have always had to contend with teams doing the only thing that they could against the superior puck possession of the Soviets - clog up the middle and force the Russians to the outside. There is no time to install a Soviet-style attack before the 2022 Olympics, but they have to force opposing defenses to sprint up the ice to defend their goal, control the puck inside the opposing zone, and then penetrate inside to force good scoring chances right in front of the goal. They have to get some goals to build a margin, which, except against Belarus and Great Britain, they failed to do. They scored 1 goal against Canada, and you cannot win many hockey games scoring only 1 goal. They have to have a strategy to get inside the clog and force good scoring chances, or they have no chance for a medal in 2022.

 

[Caser]

Good experience for him and Morozov. They seem to be the 2 guys that are viewed as the future of the NT at that position (at least near future).

I don't doubt that it is a good experience, but I mean, if we expect the team to at least fight for the medals on this level of competition, Voronkov can't be the 1st line center there. As for Morozov it was just too early for him I think.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Russian teams, especially Soviet teams, have always had to contend with teams doing the only thing that they could against the superior puck possession of the Soviets - clog up the middle and force the Russians to the outside. There is no time to install a Soviet-style attack before the 2022 Olympics, but they have to force opposing defenses to sprint up the ice to defend their goal, control the puck inside the opposing zone, and then penetrate inside to force good scoring chances right in front of the goal. They have to get some goals to build a margin, which, except against Belarus and Great Britain, they failed to do. They scored 1 goal against Canada, and you cannot win many hockey games scoring only 1 goal. They have to have a strategy to get inside the clog and force good scoring chances, or they have no chance for a medal in 2022.

That 'extra' 10-15% creativity was missing. Most of Russian attacks ended up getting 'clogged' either at centre ice or on the boards in the offensive zone. Again, it was Bragin's job to find a 'key'. Considering this lineup, he failed. It was a big coach's victory for Canada.

For this specific game, I think there was also the factor of mental pressure. The Canadians barely made the playoff round so they probably felt little pressure to win this one as they already exceeded expectations after being down 0-3. The Russians, on the other hand, were 'supposed' to win, at least according to the standard 'ura-patriotic' press and some of the officials and the fact that they did have at least some well-known (or even big) names on their squad.

 

[Yakushev72]

That 'extra' 10-15% creativity was missing. Most of Russian attacks ended up getting 'clogged' either at centre ice or on the boards in the offensive zone. Again, it was Bragin's job to find a 'key'. Considering this lineup, he failed. It was a big coach's victory for Canada.

For this specific game, I think there was also the factor of mental pressure. The Canadians barely made the playoff round so they probably felt little pressure to win this one as they already exceeded expectations after being down 0-3. The Russians, on the other hand, were 'supposed' to win, at least according to the standard 'ura-patriotic' press and some of the officials and the fact that they did have at least some well-known (or even big) names on their squad.

Good point about mental pressure! It helps psychologically to have "nothing to lose"!

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Good point about mental pressure! It helps psychologically to have "nothing to lose"!

I think that was certainly a factor. However, we can't possibly 'blame' everything on this as hockey players should be mentally prepared for such situations (as they constantly arise). It was Bragin's job to find a key to victory, to develop a style of play suited to beating Canadian teams. He should be very familiar with Canadian teams by now, as he had had many a match against Canadian teams during his time as coach of the junior team. Considering his experience, I did not see any 'changes' to Russia's playing as the game went along. He was probably telling them something along the lines of - "Just keep at it and eventually you'll get a goal". But there was no goal other than the one they scored and, instead of allowing Canada into 3 vs. 3 (which I knew immediately would lead to Canada winning), they should've ended the game in regulation time. A goal like Grigorenko's vs. the Czechs would've been perfect. But you have to hand it to Canada. Those young players were highly disciplined and barely gave Russia any good looks. Almost all offensive attempts by Russia were smothered quickly and efficiently. It's a superior game plan. In the offensive zone, Canada did not f*** around. It wasn't some crappy rummaging along the boards either. They were taking shots, making the goalie nervous the whole time. Why can't any of these useless coaches look at what winning teams do these days?

 

[Yakushev72]

I think that was certainly a factor. However, we can't possibly 'blame' everything on this as hockey players should be mentally prepared for such situations (as they constantly arise). It was Bragin's job to find a key to victory, to develop a style of play suited to beating Canadian teams. He should be very familiar with Canadian teams by now, as he had had many a match against Canadian teams during his time as coach of the junior team. Considering his experience, I did not see any 'changes' to Russia's playing as the game went along. He was probably telling them something along the lines of - "Just keep at it and eventually you'll get a goal". But there was no goal other than the one they scored and, instead of allowing Canada into 3 vs. 3 (which I knew immediately would lead to Canada winning), they should've ended the game in regulation time. A goal like Grigorenko's vs. the Czechs would've been perfect. But you have to hand it to Canada. Those young players were highly disciplined and barely gave Russia any good looks. Almost all offensive attempts by Russia were smothered quickly and efficiently. It's a superior game plan. In the offensive zone, Canada did not f*** around. It wasn't some crappy rummaging along the boards either. They were taking shots, making the goalie nervous the whole time. Why can't any of these useless coaches look at what winning teams do these days?

Bragin, or any other coach, has to tell his players exactly what he wants them to do, and how he wants them to do it. They have to go out on every shift saying to themselves, "I know what I am going to do and how i am going to try to do it!" That doesn't always guarantee victory, but it does give them everything they need to accomplish a team goal. If they don't show energy and passion on every shift, there is no place for them on a national team. If they play like individuals rather than teammates, there is no place for them. That is what I think a coach needs to do.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Bragin, or any other coach, has to tell his players exactly what he wants them to do, and how he wants them to do it. They have to go out on every shift saying to themselves, "I know what I am going to do and how i am going to try to do it!" That doesn't always guarantee victory, but it does give them everything they need to accomplish a team goal. If they don't show energy and passion on every shift, there is no place for them on a national team. If they play like individuals rather than teammates, there is no place for them. That is what I think a coach needs to do.

The coach also has to adapt as the game goes along though. He has to make changes if he sees things aren't working out. Maybe not changing everything drastically, but giving the players some 'new ideas' or impulses. Have we seen that from Bragin? Rhetorical quesiton.

 

[Yakushev72]

The coach also has to adapt as the game goes along though. He has to make changes if he sees things aren't working out. Maybe not changing everything drastically, but giving the players some 'new ideas' or impulses. Have we seen that from Bragin? Rhetorical quesiton.

Of course, coaches have to adapt to the immediate situation, such as falling far behind or encountering surprise tactics and strategies. But what coaches like Bragin must be expected to do is to force opposing teams to make adjustments to what his team is doing. Did he do that? You be the judge.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Of course, coaches have to adapt to the immediate situation, such as falling far behind or encountering surprise tactics and strategies. But what coaches like Bragin must be expected to do is to force opposing teams to make adjustments to what his team is doing. Did he do that? You be the judge.

It seems to me that opposing teams were very well prepared for what Russia was doing. They all knew Bragin's style and he wasn't making up anything new and unexpected to them. He was playing that 'dump and chase' style, which is pretty much the complete opposite of Soviet-style hockey where puck control was the key element.

Perhaps it boils down to the fact that the pure skill levels of the players on the international stage have evened out and that the Russians just can't go 'skating around' other teams' players anymore. Granted, there is some truth to this since Soviet players back in the day were also technically more proficient than pretty much any team (except Canada in some cases) so they could afford to play combination-style hockey like they did. However, I think straying too far away from this style does Russia no good because by constantly giving away the puck like they did in OT vs. Canada, they just give Canada free chances. Puck control should become a big subject for Russian hockey again if they hope to succeed in the future.

 

[Yakushev72]

It seems to me that opposing teams were very well prepared for what Russia was doing. They all knew Bragin's style and he wasn't making up anything new and unexpected to them. He was playing that 'dump and chase' style, which is pretty much the complete opposite of Soviet-style hockey where puck control was the key element.

Perhaps it boils down to the fact that the pure skill levels of the players on the international stage have evened out and that the Russians just can't go 'skating around' other teams' players anymore. Granted, there is some truth to this since Soviet players back in the day were also technically more proficient than pretty much any team (except Canada in some cases) so they could afford to play combination-style hockey like they did. However, I think straying too far away from this style does Russia no good because by constantly giving away the puck like they did in OT vs. Canada, they just give Canada free chances. Puck control should become a big subject for Russian hockey again if they hope to succeed in the future.

In the WJC, Larionov made some ill-advised comments on installing a Soviet-style system. Tarasov's formula, adopted at warp speed by Tikhonov, was to skate at sprint speed while constantly pushing the puck down the ice. Make the defenders play at anaerobic oxygen-debt until they break down physically and mentally. Once they reach the breaking point, then the team can name the score. But that requires the stamina to engage in a 60-minute sprint while maintaining control of the puck, and winning the race to every loose puck, which Soviet teams typically were able to do.

In the WC and WJC, by contrast, the Russian teams were relatively slow, had only occasional puck control, routinely lost puck races to the Canadians and others, and were easily caged up to the nether regions of the boards where they were physically out of scoring range. That is why they were held to one or two goals per game so often. The only similarity between these teams and the Soviet teams is that they were almost all born in Russia, as opposed to any of the other Soviet Republics.

 

[Caser]

Zhamnov named as a head coach and looks like it is official now.

 

[Atas2000]

Zhamnov named as a head coach and looks like it is official now.

Apparently it doesn't. Sigh...

 

[Caser]

Apparently it doesn't. Sigh...

The "The expert council has recommended..." is as official as you can get now. From Zhamnov's interview to championat I had an impression it is a done deal this time.

 

[Atas2000]

The "The expert council has recommended..." is as official as you can get now. From Zhamnov's interview to championat I had an impression it is a done deal this time.

Particularily because of how the Znarok situation played out I won't trust anything until I see a final statement by the FHR which does not say recomend, but he is signed, appointed, he is our head coach, in him we traust. Amen.

 

[Flukeshot]

Kovalchuk named GM

Kovalchuk Named GM of Russian Olympic Team

Interested to hear how you guys feel about this. I always hate when Canada jams in some recently retired player. I would feel differently if this were "just" for a World Championship, but the Olympics is higher profile.

 

[Eye of Ra]

znarok is headcoach in olympics?

 

[Caser]

znarok is headcoach in olympics?

Nope:

 

[Eye of Ra]

Nope:

what does russian hockey fans in general think about this? is zhamov considered to be a good coach?

 

[Atas2000]

what does russian hockey fans in general think about this? is zhamov considered to be a good coach?

He is considered to be a coach without any significant headcoaching experience. Some stints in the KHL years ago. Let's not even talk about winning something as HC.

He was assistant coach on the NT in different coaching staff compilations. He was responsible for scouting and keeping in touch with russian NHLers for the NT.

That is far from a convincing resume for being named HC of a best on best olympic team months before the tournament.

We literally can't say what kind of coach he is. No body of evidence to work with. If by some miracle he turns out to be a brilliant mastermind behind an as usual unbalanced roster of Team Russia - fine. We'll take it and run. But I don't bet my money on miracles happening.

My personal thoughts on this is the FHR is panicking which is not surprising given Rotenberg Jr.'s inability to build and lead. He is a typical modern kid. He thinks Instagram creates reality and his "Red Machine" will materialize if you pump enough money into meme-forcing it on the internets.

He feels the heat(because it's a best on best and a grand failure could be attributed to his persona after his big mouth was marketing some simulacrous achievements of "his" "system" of developing Russian hockey loud and pretentiously)and starts making some jerk moves. The old guard of some CSKA old farts and Roteberg's ability to destroy personal relationships and inability to separate his personal ego complexes from business decisions(the Znarok fiasko is exactly that. He kicked Znarok out over some personal fallout. It is now even not important which side pulled the brakes on Znarok's appointment) did the rest. Now we have some weird compromise. An inexperienced HC who was forced to have an even less experienced assistant in Fedorov because CSKA and reasons. No Bragin, no Znarok, no Nikitin who are all outside Rotenberg Jr.'s grace. A weird decision to bring in Nabokov too.

In a world where Rotenberg Jr. is not head of the FHR I would want to see something like this:

Whoever is HC. Not important as we don't have a Chernyshev or Tikhonov waiting around.

Give Nikitin the D and the special teams. Maybe if you are lucky Billyaletdinov would want to work with the D too.

Let Bragin and Znarok yell and break whatever they wanna break in the locker room.

And give Tretiak a seat in the VIP lounge without permission to enter the locker room.