Meh, Williams is taking on more salary. Chia has to preform a few minor miracles with the roster first and lockup Dre and McD. I'm not opposed to a good UFA or two but some housekeeping has to happen first and foremost. Hopefully Chia can get the right pieces to fall into place.
Rumor: Rumours & Proposals | Expansion Trade Freeze zzzzz Edition
- Thread starter Soli
- Start date
- Status
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
- 13,521
- 12,800
Food for thought. Williams only scored 36 points his first year Wash. He played more minutes than last year
Love that dude but players need time to adjust to new systems. Looch is prime example of that. It's a thing
Anybody thinking JW comes here and is a 50 point player automatic...time to let reality set in
Ebs points are only substituted if we have the dman Ebs is traded for suck up 20+ points...and and a FA winger eat 30 of those points
If both players go through the common new team struggles...wash. Let's hope Drai and McD don't get hurt this year or whoa nelly
At least you know Ebs can pop up 50 in his sleep
Bah, beats me. I just want him as a target, because he's an excellent one.
I think Eaves and the ducks have already begun or about to start contract negotiations, so he's out of the question imo. Neal would be another great add. I don't think we can fit in Radulov, considering he wants to get paid.
This team does need to continue insulating the young players with actual proper veterans that know what it takes to win with a proven record to show it. Lucic is one of them, so keep them coming. Its also pretty great that Phaneuf would like coming to play for Edmonton. Not like the past years where players avoided Edmonton like the plague.
Paralyzer008
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2008
- 15,257
- 5,295
Williams scored 52 points in his first year in Washington and played 16:39.
This year, he had 48 points and played 15:28.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 32,915
- 12,537
Come on...really.
You honestly see this as a regression? So in your mind you see Eberle as a legit .75 - .8 ppg player who has since regressed before he even hit his prime?
Is this the same reductionist simplistic approach you apply to all to your statistical analysis?
Come on...really.
You honestly see this as a regression? So in your mind you see Eberle as a legit .8 ppg player who has since regressed?
Is this the same reductionist simplistic approach you apply to all to your statistical analysis?
That isn't regression? What exactly would you call it? "Getting better"?
The fact that his PPG continues to drop with even more time with McDavid is bordering on incredible.
It's as if his downward scoring trend looked at Connor McDavid and said "**** you, I don't care if you want to go for a scoring title and are healthy for 82 games Eerie boy, I'm still going to find a way to score even less this year".
That's some dogged determination in scoring drop age, I wish the other aspects of his game were that persistent.
And then there's playoffs where he had the second lowest PPG for a foward on the entire team, only Beniot Pouliot was lower. Adam Larsson scored more goals in a 2 minute span that he did in 13 full games.
But yeah, no regression. Sure. It's actually somewhat impressive to degree to which he's found new levels of suck. We have our best team in 30 years, with the best player, and he is given free reign on the RW and he somehow manages to have the worst year of his career, worse than the days of Sam Gagner at center and Corey Potter on the blue line.
Last edited:
Would you honestly argue that he hasn't regressed or perhaps even lost a step? Perhaps he has been injured but he hasn't looked like the player he was for awhile now.Come on...really.
You honestly see this as a regression? So in your mind you see Eberle as a legit .75 - .8 ppg player who has since regressed before he even hit his prime?
Is this the same reductionist simplistic approach you apply to all to your statistical analysis?
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
- 13,521
- 12,800
Correct!! I eat crow. Misread the stat line
Williams did score 52
I was off on the tangent that many players do infact struggle their first year on new teams and systems. Looch and Sekera both did. It is a common thing. Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson come to mind
Williams would be a good add. That is a long shot tho
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 32,915
- 12,537
That isn't regression? What exactly would you call it? "Getting better"?
The fact that his PPG continues to drop with even more time with McDavid is bordering on incredible.
It's as if his downward scoring trend looked at Connor McDavid and said "**** you, I don't care if you want to go for a scoring title and are healthy for 82 games, I'm still going to find a way to score even less this year".
That's some dogged determination in scoring drop age, I wish the other aspects of his game were that persistent.
Look...if thats how you are going to approach stats then nothing I am going to say is going to convince you otherwise. No details or supporting statistics (TOI, usage, sh% et al) are going to mean anything to you.
You have convinced yourself that Eberle is a diminishing asset and you have posted well over a hundred times in this thread to try and convince everybody else.
Continue on. No hard feelings but I dont have the time or the energy to endlessly go in circles with you on this.
You really think is a better producer than he was 3-4 years ago? Do you *seriously* believe that because he many of the most ardent Eberle backers on this board would say that's simply just false.
His TOI, usage, etc. is going to be reduced ... because he's being outplayed by other players. That's not terribly shocking.
What more can we do for this guy? We have the 1st/2nd best hockey player in the world and he plays center for Ebs. Eberle has had first dibs on playing with McDavid for the last two years ... we only put Leon there as a 2nd/3rd resort because he is not a natural RW.
What are we not doing correctly here? We had a bad D before. OK so now we have a good D-corps. We have other players to shield him from hard match ups. Before it was "well we don't have any physical players to help Eberle and RNH, if only we had a big player like Lucic". Well now we have Lucic and Kassian and Maroon. It's not the franchise's fault, at some point it's fair to put the blame on the player.
PPG is not some exotic stat either. You're either producing per game or you're not. And Eberle has declined the better the team has gotten (somehow).
Last edited:
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 32,915
- 12,537
Thats a much more reasonable assessment. There are a lot of factors that come to play in Eberles game the last few years.
Injuries have been an issue and, as it so often happens, that affects confidence, Add in usage and TOI and other factors and we end up with the player we saw last year.
The question in my mind....does the player have the ability to bounce back and be a .7 ppg player? At 27 years old I think he does and i think that he will next season. How much are .7 ppg players making in the NHL these days? My guess is that it is very close to $6M per season.
So with that in mind Chiarelli would be very foolish to try and dump Eberle just to get rid of the player and his contract.
The cap situation isnt an issue and Eberle actually has value despite what some posters want to believe.
Yup but their forward group won't look nearly as good. I could see a decent trap team in the making.
Agreed, I would hate to see all of this end with Ebs being cast out for nothing especially considering having a weak right side.
I would say the shooting coach he hired last summer, new stick, and confidence ruined him this season. Confidence will always be a major point for any player in the league. Schultz sucked ass here, and his confidence went down the drain. Luckily for him, being in Pittsburgh and getting help from Gonchar rejuvenated his confidence back up.
I personally still have no issues with Eberle being moved, but it has to be the right deal. If not, he's welcomed to stay and I sure hope he manages to bounce back. We're not trading from a position of weakness either, so if GM's like Garth Snow think they can try to fleece us again, they can take a hike.
Trap team.. as if we don't see that boring crap enough from the annoying Coyotes zzzz..
The bottom line is with McDavid and Draisaitl we can only have 3-4 other players with $5.5+ million salaries.
That's how it is for Chicago, Pittbsurgh, LA, any one of those good teams with top end talent and it will be the same for Toronto.
We have Lucic and Sekera locked up. So that's basically 2/3 "big money" slots, already taken.
One of two of RNH or Eberle are gone here and the return has to be less salary coming back and unless a team is stupid that generally means a less experienced, less established player. Much less actually. And really honestly probably both are going to have to go if Puljujarvi pans out because he will need to get paid at some point and then you have Talbot's deal coming up too.
This whole thing of "we can have 6 or 7 $6 million dollar contracts .... wheeeeeee!" was fun but it's basically coming to a close now. Our three years from Golden Ticket Day are rapidly coming to a close and Draisaitl has over produced expectations and will want to be paid as such. We are going to have to choose a core group and live and die with that group.
When it comes to cap management we have been used to living like a college slob with zero responsibilities playing video games until 3 AM and eating pizza all day, it's time to now grow up and take on real responsibilities.
That's how it is for Chicago, Pittbsurgh, LA, any one of those good teams with top end talent and it will be the same for Toronto.
We have Lucic and Sekera locked up. So that's basically 2/3 "big money" slots, already taken.
One of two of RNH or Eberle are gone here and the return has to be less salary coming back and unless a team is stupid that generally means a less experienced, less established player. Much less actually. And really honestly probably both are going to have to go if Puljujarvi pans out because he will need to get paid at some point and then you have Talbot's deal coming up too.
This whole thing of "we can have 6 or 7 $6 million dollar contracts .... wheeeeeee!" was fun but it's basically coming to a close now. Our three years from Golden Ticket Day are rapidly coming to a close and Draisaitl has over produced expectations and will want to be paid as such. We are going to have to choose a core group and live and die with that group.
When it comes to cap management we have been used to living like a college slob with zero responsibilities playing video games until 3 AM and eating pizza all day, it's time to now grow up and take on real responsibilities.
Last edited:
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 32,915
- 12,537
As I just posted I think that he is a .7 ppg player and thats what he is likely to achieve the next few seasons.
I explained my reasoning above and just to add to that....I think that Eberle has been clearly challenged this off season by the coach and GM. Like him or not Eberle is a professional and he has pride.
I think that matters in terms of how he approaches next season and I think it will translate itself into a strong performance.
I have no attachment to this player. In that sense I dont care if he stays or goes as long as it benefits the team. I am just explaining how I see things unfolding moving forward based on the information at hand.
McVirginOil
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2014
- 3,078
- 1,751
Eberle is not regressing at all actually:
His points/60 minutes played (which is infinitely better at evaluating a player and accounting for their TOI than PPG) after his career lucky year
12-13: 2.2 p/60
13-14 2.0 p/60
14-15 1.9 p/60
15-16 2.1 p/60
16-17 1.9 p/60
So no, he's not regressing in points even after an abysmal shooting percentage year lmao
His points/60 minutes played (which is infinitely better at evaluating a player and accounting for their TOI than PPG) after his career lucky year
12-13: 2.2 p/60
13-14 2.0 p/60
14-15 1.9 p/60
15-16 2.1 p/60
16-17 1.9 p/60
So no, he's not regressing in points even after an abysmal shooting percentage year lmao
I imagine their forward group will primarily consist of 3rd liners and hopefuls. They will be hard pressed to compete on the rush, better off jamming up the middle and countering. I have no doubt they will have the ability to win a few with the right makeup but a huge task for their GM.
Burnt Biscuits
Registered User
- May 2, 2010
- 9,164
- 3,179
If you recall in the 2015/16 season he started the year with a shoulder injury, in his first 13 games back he looked off and got 3 points, it seemed fairly clear to most he returned too early from injury. In the remaining 56 games that season he got 44 points, if you remove those first 13 games out his points per game is 0.786, right in line with his usual production (despite less ice-time on average).
Yeah, I agree. I personally just can't stand neutral zone trap hockey. Its just dreadfully boring to watch as a fan.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 32,915
- 12,537
Exactly. There are more reasons not to trade him especially if the return is weak.
I forgot all about the shooting coach issue. Just another layer on top of all the other layers. That further supports the position that he has more to give.
I completely agree with this. Chiarelli is operating from a position of strength here...he would be a fool not to utilize that.
That entire 2nd line looked like ******* this year, I don't need all of the fancy stats to tell me otherwise. If you think he played well this year then who am I to tell you different.
To be honest even that Lucic deal ... I hate to say it but I don't think it will be a good one in 1-2 years we are going to grow to dislike it.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
2024 SoFi NBA Play-In Tournament Sacramento Kings @ New Orleans PelicansWagers: 5Staked: $318.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Stanley Cup 2024 Stanley Cup Champion - ONLY BET ONE TEAMWagers: 12Staked: $16,404.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
Series Winner Boston Bruins vs Toronto Maple LeafsWagers: 8Staked: $3,310.00Event closes
- Updated: