Rumor: Rumours & Proposals | Chia Talk Ban | Oilers Sign KHL G Mikko Koskinen, What's Next?

[ThePhoenixx]

Yeah, that's totally the argument and you aren't strawmanning at all. good contribution.

You just said that winning a Stanley Cup as a GM is overrated. That can easily be extrapolated to a coach, player, etc. You even imply that luck is more important. In the same breath you then put more importance on being competitive every year.

Do you listen to what you are saying?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

You just said that winning a Stanley Cup as a GM is overrated. That can easily be extrapolated to a coach, player, etc. You even imply that luck is more important. In the same breath you then put more importance on being competitive every year.

Do you listen to what you are saying?

I kind of get the point he's trying to make. If your competitive every year you have a shot at the cup every year. Luck, be it injuries to your or opponents key players, in game bounces, calls or non calls by the referees, that sort of thing does have to fall your way in order to win.

Conversely, we have the Oilers as an example. We went to the playoffs 12 years ago and came within a game of winning the Cup. Since then we missed the playoffs 10 years in a row, and 11 out of 12.

I would rather have a competitive, ie Playoff Team, every year as it gives us a chance. That said, in the years we squeaked into the playoffs every year and made 8th place, barely. We knew we couldn't compete and actually win a cup but making the playoffs was our "win". However that was in the pre cap era.

So now in the cap era, I would prefer to have a competitive team and a shot at winning the cup versus making it one year and the next not even come close. A good GM is judged by his teams overall competitiveness and consistency and Cup wins are the cherry on the cake.

 

[Little Fury]

You just said that winning a Stanley Cup as a GM is overrated.

Uh huh. And?

That can easily be extrapolated to a coach, player, etc.

wut

You even imply that luck is more important.

No, I said, outright, that luck is a huge factor in deciding who wins a Cup. This...isn't news.

In the same breath you then put more importance on being competitive every year.

In terms of evaluating a GM, yeah I think keeping a team performing on a high level year in and year out is important.

Do you listen to what you are saying?

yes? And, unlike you, I also understand it.

None of that implies that winning a Stanley Cup is easy, which you seemed to think I was saying despite me...not saying that.

So: care to try again?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Uh huh. And?



wut



No, I said, outright, that luck is a huge factor in deciding who wins a Cup. This...isn't news.



In terms of evaluating a GM, yeah I think keeping a team performing on a high level year in and year out is important.



yes? And, unlike you, I also understand it.

None of that implies that winning a Stanley Cup is easy, which you seemed to think I was saying despite me...not saying that.

So: care to try again?

You just said what I did except for the wut? You are the same person who has complained about TM not being able to get the Sharks over the hump. Now that the argument is on the other side the cup really doesn't mean much.

You flip and flop depending on who you are being critical of at the moment.

 

[Jet Walters]

We should be looking to trade up in the draft and grabbing the RHD our scouts like best out of Bouchard, Dobson, and Boquist. It will be far more beneficial in the long run than trading for a guy like Faulk.

Klefbom and 10th for Gallagher and 3rd

or

Klefbom and 10th for Hoffman and 4th

I think I'd prefer a RH shot and a player who plays more of a 200 foot game in Gallagher over Hoffman.

 

[BarDownBobo]

We should be looking to trade up in the draft and grabbing the RHD our scouts like best out of Bouchard, Dobson, and Boquist. It will be far more beneficial in the long run than trading for a guy like Faulk.

Klefbom and 10th for Gallagher and 3rd

or

Klefbom and 10th for Hoffman and 4th

I think I'd prefer a RH shot and a player who plays more of a 200 foot game in Gallagher over Hoffman.

Don't. Trade. Klefbom. That is absolutely the worst thing that could happen this summer.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

We should be looking to trade up in the draft and grabbing the RHD our scouts like best out of Bouchard, Dobson, and Boquist. It will be far more beneficial in the long run than trading for a guy like Faulk.

Klefbom and 10th for Gallagher and 3rd

or

Klefbom and 10th for Hoffman and 4th

I think I'd prefer a RH shot and a player who plays more of a 200 foot game in Gallagher over Hoffman.

Problem with that is any of those D wont be ready on average for 3 years and then it takes another 2-3 to become a 2/3 (I dont think there are many true top 1D outside of Dahlin in this group).

We then weaken our D and gain a winger so all we do in this scenario is create a new hole in our lineup.

If we cant turn the 10 OA into a guaranteed use now asset that has term on a deal we should keep it.

 

[Little Fury]

You just said what I did except for the wut?

wut?

You are the same person who has complained about TM not being able to get the Sharks over the hump. Now that the argument is on the other side the cup really doesn't mean much.

You flip and flop depending on who you are being critical of at the moment

Pretty sure I've never said anything about T-Mac and the Sharks except he's a mediocre coach who got carried by his on-ice talent there.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

wut?



Pretty sure I've never said anything about T-Mac and the Sharks except he's a mediocre coach who got carried by his on-ice talent there.

How so?

The guy did everything. Coached his team to multiple president trophies, conference championships, and division champs. The Sharks were at the pinnacle all the years he was there.

What more did you expect from him?

 

[joestevens29]

We should be looking to trade up in the draft and grabbing the RHD our scouts like best out of Bouchard, Dobson, and Boquist. It will be far more beneficial in the long run than trading for a guy like Faulk.

Klefbom and 10th for Gallagher and 3rd

or

Klefbom and 10th for Hoffman and 4th

I think I'd prefer a RH shot and a player who plays more of a 200 foot game in Gallagher over Hoffman.

I have no issue trading Klef, but we better be getting a better d-man that can play now not in 3 or more years

 

[Little Fury]

How so?

The guy did everything. Coached his team to multiple president trophies, conference championships, and division champs. The Sharks were at the pinnacle all the years he was there.

What more did you expect from him?

A lot of coaches would look good with peak Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Vlasic, Burns etc.

He sure looked pedestrian this year.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Who's going to be at risk in the expansion draft?

 

[Raoul Duke]

He actually dealt it knowing full well who was available at 16 (two top 10 talents) which makes it all the more worse.

Yeah, that’s what I was getting at. Waiting until the draft floor doesn’t fill me with optimism.

 

[McShogun99]

Just take the BPA at 10 and let him develop. With the expansion draft coming it’s the best strategy. Then go after Green and sign him for 2 years. If a trade opportunity presents itself that involves a swap of player then you take it if it makes sense. Next off season you unload both Sekera and Russel since they would both have to be protected in the expansion draft.

 

[backhandsauce]

This thread has gone down hill.

Where is SpeedyTurtle?

 

[Little Fury]

Just take the BPA at 10 and let him develop. With the expansion draft coming it’s the best strategy. Then go after Green and sign him for 2 years. If a trade opportunity presents itself that involves a swap of player then you take it if it makes sense. Next off season you unload both Sekera and Russel since they would both have to be protected in the expansion draft.

How are they gonna fit Green in with the $3M or so they are going to have to work with once they sign or replace their various RFAs.

 

[Jet Walters]

Problem with that is any of those D wont be ready on average for 3 years and then it takes another 2-3 to become a 2/3 (I dont think there are many true top 1D outside of Dahlin in this group).

We then weaken our D and gain a winger so all we do in this scenario is create a new hole in our lineup.

If we cant turn the 10 OA into a guaranteed use now asset that has term on a deal we should keep it.

I think that 3 years is not accurate the way the league is trending. Younger players are a lot more physically and mentally developed coming out of the draft than in the past. Players like MacAvoy and Sergachev are making an impact and only drafted in 2016. Provorov looks like he's already Philly's best defenseman and was drafted the year before. Bouchard could probably step into a bottom pairing role next year and onto the top unit PP. At worst he's 2 years away from making a big impact.

I just think that unless we can get a true #1 like Karlsson, Pietrangelo, or Doughty it might be best to draft and develop. Sign or trade for a stop gap in the meantime like Mike Green for 1 or two years if the price is right and we can move some cap.

 

[Jet Walters]

This thread has gone down hill.

Where is SpeedyTurtle?

I know, right? Dude is a shell of his former self.

 

[joestevens29]

I think that 3 years is not accurate the way the league is trending. Younger players are a lot more physically and mentally developed coming out of the draft than in the past. Players like MacAvoy and Sergachev are making an impact and only drafted in 2016. Provorov looks like he's already Philly's best defenseman and was drafted the year before. Bouchard could probably step into a bottom pairing role next year and onto the top unit PP. At worst he's 2 years away from making a big impact.

I just think that unless we can get a true #1 like Karlsson, Pietrangelo, or Doughty it might be best to draft and develop. Sign or trade for a stop gap in the meantime like Mike Green for 1 or two years if the price is right and we can move some cap.

Well two of those guys are sheltered by very good d-men and teams. Not sure putting Bouchard in this tire fire and expecting him to make a big impact in 2 years is really fair to the player.

Not saying it isn't possible, but banking on that is a sure fire way to end up disappointed

 

[Jumptheshark]

Who's going to be at risk in the expansion draft?

we wont know till you know we know that there will be an expansion draft

the current one expires after the 21/22 season or in 4 years time--most people do no see the league expanding only to have another shut down

the Seattle fan boys keep pushing 2020 because that will be when the renovations will be done.

the NHLPA could opt out after the 2019 season

For me there are several wild cards--the biggest being the underlining speculation that a few teams are not as well off as the NHL would like and I can see the NHL holding off expansion until they feel certain teams are either stable or do a relocation at the same time as expansion to cover any bad press by relocation

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

A lot of coaches would look good with peak Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Vlasic, Burns etc.

He sure looked pedestrian this year.

who's a good coach then according to you?

 

[Jet Walters]

Well two of those guys are sheltered by very good d-men and teams. Not sure putting Bouchard in this tire fire and expecting him to make a big impact in 2 years is really fair to the player.

Not saying it isn't possible, but banking on that is a sure fire way to end up disappointed

I don't disagree on Sergachev, but who is sheltering MacAvoy on the right side in Boston? He's their best RHD at this moment. It will cost more than our 10th pick for a flawed player like Faulk, who needs sheltering himself. Then when he walks in two years the Oilers will be looking to shell out more futures to replace him, or we'll sign him to a deal that will be very bad in the long run.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

who's a good coach then according to you?

any guy with an average-toabove-average goalie who is force fed points by the officials and opposing players.

 

[joestevens29]

I don't disagree on Sergachev, but who is sheltering MacAvoy on the right side in Boston? He's their best RHD at this moment. It will cost more than our 10th pick for a flawed player like Faulk, who needs sheltering himself. Then when he walks in two years the Oilers will be looking to shell out more futures to replace him, or we'll sign him to a deal that will be very bad in the long run.

He has a pretty decent partner.

I personally don't know what we end up with, but I'm not sure banking on a draft pick is the answer. At least with Faulk(if that is the guy) you know his faults, but you also know that he can play in the NHL and what he brings. I'm still of the belief as well that a lot of our increase on defense is gonna come from Klef and Sekera being healthy. If it doesn't then we have a bigger problem.

 

[Little Fury]

I don't disagree on Sergachev, but who is sheltering MacAvoy on the right side in Boston? He's their best RHD at this moment.

MacAvoy played almost exclusively with Chara this year.