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[CupofOil]

Not saying Hall didn't deserve it but just think, if Kinkaid didn't start playing out of his mind the Devils don't make the playoffs and Hall isn't sniffing the Hart. Kinda dumb how the voting works.

Hall played out of his mind down the stretch too, completely carried that offense. Without Hall, that's a bottom 10 team in the league and perhaps bottom 5.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

You're just bitter. Hall deserved the Hart, flat out.
Tell me one reason why he didn't deserve it.

Because he wasn't Top-5 in any of the Points, Goals or Assists (also Not in PPG)

And if it's just about 'something something' Devils in the playoffs 'something something' - then he deserves it less then MacKinnon who outscored him in less games and Pushed the Avs into the playoffs.

Taylor Hall had an excellent year, deserves a TON of praise for it, but the most valuable? No, just no.

 

[CupofOil]

Because he wasn't Top-5 in any of the Points, Goals or Assists (also Not in PPG)

And if it's just about 'something something' Devils in the playoffs 'something something' - then he deserves it less then MacKinnon who outscored him in less games and Pushed the Avs into the playoffs.

Taylor Hall had an excellent year, deserves a TON of praise for it, but the most valuable? No, just no.

He had 2 less goals and 15 less points than McDavid in 6 less games. His scoring pace wasn't that far off and he dragged that team into the playoffs. Same with MacKinnon who actually scored at a better pace.

I love McDavid, wouldn't trade him for anybody in the league which should go without saying and he will lead this team to greatness one day, but he wasn't MVP of the league last season IMO. Can't give it to a player who piled up meaningless points late in the season on a team that was a bottom feeder all season. Not his fault but those are the facts.

 

[Aceboogie]

Not saying Hall didn't deserve it but just think, if Kinkaid didn't start playing out of his mind the Devils don't make the playoffs and Hall isn't sniffing the Hart. Kinda dumb how the voting works.

The Hart Trophy is dumb and I wish we could stop debating it or putting so much emphasis on it. McDavid was the best player in the league. Hall had an elite year and was one of the best forwards in the NHL

 

[belair]

Name a successful team that's consistently lost trades that's becoming a top franchise. That doesn't happen much either.

Being able to win trades is a trait most good teams are at least decent at.

The Caps didn't exactly win that Forsberg trade, now did they?

'Winning' trades is something that can be argued from different perspectives over different periods of time. Which is why people arguing to the end of the Earth over specific ones are wasting their time.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Don’t know if this has been shared or not.

Brodziak-28
Rieder-22
Gravel-5

 

[Del Preston]

Don’t know if this has been shared or not.

Brodziak-28
Rieder-22
Gravel-5

And Koskinen is wearing #19.

 

[SK13]

Because he wasn't Top-5 in any of the Points, Goals or Assists (also Not in PPG)

And if it's just about 'something something' Devils in the playoffs 'something something' - then he deserves it less then MacKinnon who outscored him in less games and Pushed the Avs into the playoffs.

Taylor Hall had an excellent year, deserves a TON of praise for it, but the most valuable? No, just no.

Look, nobody respects the Hart less than I do, but the award, as it's been defined in the minds of the people who vote for it, is clearly the best player (usually forward) on a playoff team relative to their teammates. McKinnon had Rantanen at 84 points. Malkin, Kessel and Crosby were all top-10. Kucherov had Stamkos at 86 points. Giroux had Voracek in the 80 point range. Ovechkin had Kuznetsov. Even McDavid had Draisaitl at 70 points, which is the 2nd biggest gap here but 70 points is really strong.

Taylor Hall had a 41 gap between him and his next best player. He was the only player on his team above 55 points. Kopitar was really close to that as well, but had a better all-around team with more 2line scoring threats. I think it's clear that, as they want to define the Hart, Hall was a really good choice.

I just think they define the Hart in a stupid way.

 

[CupofOil]

Don’t know if this has been shared or not.

Brodziak-28
Rieder-22
Gravel-5

That's nice of JFJ to allow the Oilers to unretire his jersey.

 

[Aceboogie]

The Caps didn't exactly win that Forsberg trade, now did they?

'Winning' trades is something that can be argued from different perspectives over different periods of time. Which is why people arguing to the end of the Earth over specific ones are wasting their time.

They lost one trade, and they lost a prospect who wasnt on their team at the time. It was a dumb, dumb, dumb trade, but Forsberg at the time was contributing nothing to the team. It just hurt the future of the team.

And again, it was one dumb trade. They would stop making dumb trades after that. They didnt double then triple down on making bad trades

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

It’ll be weird seeing him wear a number other than 51

 

[Stud Muffin]

And Koskinen is wearing #19.

Where did you see that?

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

On whose chest?

Slava voynov?

 

[SK13]

While its true we can keep talent like Mcdavid. I'd argue we'd be able to keep him anyways, with the RFA rules. If we couldn't afford him, then we'd be getting a TON in return. Much more then what we'll receive in the cap system. And as you pointed out the NBA also has super teams who win every year.

Well, RFA rules do protect the team for a time, what we did used to see when RFA status was around but the cap was not were shorter term deals that ultimately led to poor teams having to sell off key players to rich teams as there was no question they were losing the UFA years. The Oilers, in the span of 14 years, lost Gretzky, Coffee, Kurri, Messier, Weight and Guerin to this inevitable reality.

With the hard cap, revenue sharing and the cap floor - any team in the league, even the lowly Coyotes, must be able to afford their key players (like, say, OEL) because they need to spend a certain amount of money as a rule and other teams can't artificially raise contract prices to a point where a player like that might ask for 12M instead of 8.5M.

The MLB over the last 30 years has had 19 different teams win a championship, the NFL has had 14, NHL 13, and NBA 10 over the same time frame. It could be argued that yes, a luxury tax does create a gap in team salaries. But small market clubs have an easier time getting cheap young players to develop under that system. As a result of big markets having no room to develop the young player, because they're paying established talent instead to take the spots on their team.

As has been explained already, parity doesn't spread championships around. Parity creates a semi-equal base for teams to land on and creates bizarre surges and drop offs like the Colorado Avalanche of the last two years. It does not and can not create an environment where there are more Sidney Crosby's in the league for teams to compete with Sidney Crosby.

This is the Oilers biggest advantage moving forward. No matter where else we don't succeed, other teams will not have a Connor McDavid to compete with Connor McDavid.

 

[Soundwave]

The Caps didn't exactly win that Forsberg trade, now did they?

'Winning' trades is something that can be argued from different perspectives over different periods of time. Which is why people arguing to the end of the Earth over specific ones are wasting their time.

It also took them 13 years and hitting massive draft jackpots in Kuznetsov and Carlson to win a single Cup with Ovy.

Being bad at trading does not help you.

The Leafs are not in the playoffs 2/2 years with Matthews if they don't fleece Philly for JVR and dump Kadri at rock bottom value, it would be a much different story for them if they did that.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I don't think this is something you should be admitting in public, if you know what a Cleveland Steamer really is.

I will acquiesce to your sage guidance

 

[belair]

This is wrong, Arizona has the 14th highest cap hit in the NHL. They are at a cap of 68 million with the floor only being 58 million. They were already over the 5mil over the cap floor without Hossa.

Osterle played top pairing minutes this year, so he was not a replacement level piece for Chicago at all. Chicago had to give up something of value for a team to take on Hossa, Osterle is the most logical piece as he is an Hinazota both have value, but neither one is a major name like Saad or a highly regarded prospect (or 1st round pick)

How is that wrong? Is Arizona ever going to be a cap team? They're doing a solid, getting paid a bit of a premium for doing it and they end up paying a very small fraction of that actual salary. That cap hit does zero damage to the Coyotes. Considering the term left on the Hossa deal is another two years, they may still require a bump to hit the floor in future seasons should the cap raise significantly.

We'll see where Oesterle draws in, but I'm just not seeing this deal being much of anything for either team in terms of NHL talent. It's another deck chairs type deal to gain a decent pick that Chayka seems to be so fond of.

 

[t0nedeff]

Because he wasn't Top-5 in any of the Points, Goals or Assists (also Not in PPG)

And if it's just about 'something something' Devils in the playoffs 'something something' - then he deserves it less then MacKinnon who outscored him in less games and Pushed the Avs into the playoffs.

Taylor Hall had an excellent year, deserves a TON of praise for it, but the most valuable? No, just no.

You think Mackinnon would have put up those numbers if he didn't have Rantenan on his line? I sure don't. Hall outscored the teams 2nd leading scorer by 41 f***ing points, man.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They lost one trade, and they lost a prospect who wasnt on their team at the time. It was a dumb, dumb, dumb trade, but Forsberg at the time was contributing nothing to the team. It just hurt the future of the team.

And again, it was one dumb trade. They would stop making dumb trades after that. They didnt double then triple down on making bad trades

So the Reinhart trade isn't that bad then, since we didn't lose a player from our team.

 

[CupofOil]

I will acquiesce to your sage guidance

What can I say, I'm the king of useless knowledge.

 

[Soundwave]

Forsberg deal was horrendous and it may have cost them a Cup earlier but they draft great and got bailed out by hitting play dirt with the Kuzy and Carlson picks.

Still if they only have 1 Cup to show for Ovy, I think that is a bit of a disappointment.

 

[Raab]

Well, RFA rules do protect the team for a time, what we did used to see when RFA status was around but the cap was not were shorter term deals that ultimately led to poor teams having to sell off key players to rich teams as there was no question they were losing the UFA years. The Oilers, in the span of 14 years, lost Gretzky, Coffee, Kurri, Messier, Weight and Guerin to this inevitable reality.

With the hard cap, revenue sharing and the cap floor - any team in the league, even the lowly Coyotes, must be able to afford their key players (like, say, OEL) because they need to spend a certain amount of money as a rule and other teams can't artificially raise contract prices to a point where a player like that might ask for 12M instead of 8.5M.



As has been explained already, parity doesn't spread championships around. Parity creates a semi-equal base for teams to land on and creates bizarre surges and drop offs like the Colorado Avalanche of the last two years. It does not and can not create an environment where there are more Sidney Crosby's in the league for teams to compete with Sidney Crosby.

This is the Oilers biggest advantage moving forward. No matter where else we don't succeed, other teams will not have a Connor McDavid to compete with Connor McDavid.

I would argue that revenue sharing is good, and the luxury tax fund is distributed to lower income teams. Now in saying that we lost those players because of the ownership at the time. Pocklington was bankrupt, and the ownership group wasn't able to carry high salaries. With a solid owner like Katz, I dont think we'd have seen players like Smyth or Weight traded.

In saying that even with the cap we can see these players move. We are seeing more players request trades to go south. Especially as they get older and start having families. Places like Edmonton have to find young players who are willing to come here, as older players have a hard time leaving the US market.

 

[Soundwave]

The Caps weren't as dumb as the Oilers either, they didn't compound the Forsberg blown trade by then also trading away Backstrom or Kuznetsov for a no offence no.2 d-man and signed Lucic expecting him to make up the difference.

If the Oilers only made one of those two mistakes they still probably are in OK shape but blowing it on both was franchise altering no question.

 

[belair]

It also took them 13 years and hitting massive draft jackpots in Kuznetsov and Carlson to win a single Cup with Ovy.

Being bad at trading does not help you.

Being 'good' at it rarely moves the needle in a significant manner. Washington's failure in those first 12 years might shed some light on why it may not be the most effective method to build your team around a star left winger if you wish to see consistent playoff success.

 

[belair]

And Koskinen is wearing #19.

Ewwwwww.