Rumor: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Comrie to ARI, Dahlstrom to WPG, Everyone else cleared.

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Drai Fi

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If you guys want to feel old, I was 13 when Hall was traded and it was an absolute travesty to me at the time. I was so disappointed. He was my favourite Oiler cause I grew up watching him and he was sometimes the lone bright spot in the Decade of Darkness. He was our heart and soul a lot of the time. A lot of my earliest hockey memories are because of Hall. His first goal, the natural hat trick against the Thrashers etc. I got over it, because it led to us going to the playoffs which is the only playoff series I can remember as I was too young for the 06 run to really remember. But despite that, I’ll always remember that game when we were down by 2 and we had an empty net and Taylor tried his absolute best to block the shot and it went in anyways. The image of him looking defeated in front of the net with his black eye in a worthless season always stuck with me. The guy was fearless and he did anything to win.

I’d love to have him back in the fold, I’m biased sure, but if we can make it work, I think it would be a big boost to the team.
 
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Jet Walters

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This better not become a distraction for the current Oilers if they have to answer Taylor Hall trade rumour questions on a weekly basis from our clown show local media.
 

frag2

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RNH and Hall doesn't exactly have the best chemistry. I remember Oilers fans like the look of RNH and Hall together on paper but on ice they never really feed off each other as well as we wanted.

It's because RNH never really did much himself when he lined up with Hall. It was always follow Hall's lead. Hell, whatever line Hall was on, it was follow his lead. Both him and Eberle were simply passengers along for the ride until they split up. I mean, that's always been the kicker on RNH - never aggressive and lacking the creativity most thought he had when he was drafted.
 

Canovin

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It's because RNH never really did much himself when he lined up with Hall. It was always follow Hall's lead. Hell, whatever line Hall was on, it was follow his lead. Both him and Eberle were simply passengers along for the ride until they split up. I mean, that's always been the kicker on RNH - never aggressive and lacking the creativity most thought he had when he was drafted.
Really? RNH's first 2 seasons Hall and Ebs were always following RNH's lead. The PP even ran through RNH. He just lost his mojo when they hired Eakins
 
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belair

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He's also said he has more than enough money and his next contract he will focus on going somewhere where he can win.

The only team that can pay him that and be a competitive team is maybe Colorado and even that's an open question because they will have to pay Makar an extension as some point soon.

If he wants $11 per he can stay in New Jersey, but he has to ask himself as guy who's made the playoffs once in his career ... I think that bothers him immensely.

He knows how good McDavid and Draisaitl are and the storyline there would be epic ... coming back would be a great one, he knows the Oilers would have the best top 6 in the league if you add him back.

I'd at least ask NJ and ask if you can talk to him, if he's willing to be reasonable on an extension, you have something to think about.
Colorado is probably a good bet where he ends up, but it jeopardizes their future with Captain Landeskog.

As for storylines, I could go without them. Connor and Leon are plenty in terms of star power. What the Oilers need is a better 200 foot game if they want to be in the Championship conversation. You don't do yourself any favors in addressing that when you keep throwing money at the offense.

I think we do get RNH a winger over the next year or so--I have mentioned Jonathan Drouin as a possibility previously--but I don't see Ken Holland spending all available resources to address that one single role. It would actually be entirely out of character.
 

Soundwave

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Colorado is probably a good bet where he ends up, but it jeopardizes their future with Captain Landeskog.

As for storylines, I could go without them. Connor and Leon are plenty in terms of star power. What the Oilers need is a better 200 foot game if they want to be in the Championship conversation. You don't do yourself any favors in addressing that when you keep throwing money at the offense.

I think we do get RNH a winger over the next year or so--I have mentioned Jonathan Drouin as a possibility previously--but I don't see Ken Holland spending all available resources to address that one single role. It would actually be entirely out of character.

You're assuming Montreal would want to move him, I would not be so sure.

Their GM paid a heavy price to get him, they're not going to give him away for table scraps + a pick now that he's playing half decent.

Hall is a situation where NJ likely has to move him, that's a big difference.
 

joestevens29

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Really? RNH's first 2 seasons Hall and Ebs were always following RNH's lead. The PP even ran through RNH. He just lost his mojo when they hired Eakins
RNH was like many other prospects. The coach tried to make him be better all-around, but took away from what made the guy a success to begin with.

TM last off-season mentioned how in the exit meetings that he wanted RNH to use his offense more. Not being afraid about making mistakes, because everyone makes them. I get that making a player a better two-way player is better for the team and for the player long-term, but coaches need to be smart about how they do it. You can't just take the good right out of a player, if they make mistakes you need to work with them on those mistakes.
 

Soundwave

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RNH was like many other prospects. The coach tried to make him be better all-around, but took away from what made the guy a success to begin with.

TM last off-season mentioned how in the exit meetings that he wanted RNH to use his offense more. Not being afraid about making mistakes, because everyone makes them. I get that making a player a better two-way player is better for the team and for the player long-term, but coaches need to be smart about how they do it. You can't just take the good right out of a player, if they make mistakes you need to work with them on those mistakes.

Some of this is on RNH ... he's too freaking passive as a personality. Great players don't ask for permission to be great, they seize it.
 

belair

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You're assuming Montreal would want to move him, I would not be so sure.

Their GM paid a heavy price to get him, they're not going to give him away for table scraps + a pick now that he's playing half decent.

Hall is a situation where NJ likely has to move him, that's a big difference.
It's just one of a number of viable options. But it's a player who has been rumored to be at odds with the current coaching staff on occasion. And was in the rumor mil early on.

My point is that there are many options out there who won't hurt you as significantly in terms of acquisition cost and in terms of cap commitment and term. And these options are probably better suited to fill a secondary scoring role.

Additionally there are options out there who aren't necessarily walking into next season as a 29 year old carrying what many would assume to be a contract carrying him into his mid-to-late 30s.
 

Soundwave

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It's just one of a number of viable options. But it's a player who has been rumored to be at odds with the current coaching staff on occasion. And was in the rumor mil early on.

My point is that there are many options out there who won't hurt you as significantly in terms of acquisition cost and in terms of cap commitment and term. And these options are probably better suited to fill a secondary scoring role.

Additionally there are options out there who aren't necessarily walking into next season as a 29 year old carrying what many would assume to be a contract carrying him into his mid-to-late 30s.

The thing is honestly a Drouin will be more expensive than a Taylor Hall to acquire.

Drouin has 6 points in 6 games, the Oilers ask for him now, the ask back will be Nugent Hopkins or Evan Bouchard + another decent player.

You pay a premium when you're trying to get a young player under contract long term ... as the Oilers did stupidly in trading for Adam Larsson in the first place.
 

Raab

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In your eyes only . I don't think a GM in the NHL would trade RNH for a Samorukov and a late 1st . But thanks for the post Chia . Pete until you work on your trade values you will not find a job in the NHL . :sarcasm:

I have stuck up for you when fans twist your postings . But how can I defend a Chia type of valuing ?

The best GMs are always trading older players with limited term for long term assets with good upside. Samorukov has a ton of upside along with the 1st, and the capspace acquired. 1.5 years of RNH isn’t worth a blue chip prospect, high pick, and the cap space. If he was signed for 7 years obviously it’s a different conversation.
 

Soundwave

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Let’s assume for the sake of conversation that Hall absolutely wants to come back. Why spend any assets via trade when he’s a pending UFA?

1. It would be nice to be in the playoffs this year and possibly even go on a run.

2. You only get 7 years as a UFA signing, so that means the cap hit he would want would likely be higher, that 8th year really helps in managing the cap number.

3. Odds are he'll get traded somewhere else and sign an extension with them (ie: Colorado) before reaching UFA like Stone did.
 

belair

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The thing is honestly a Drouin will be more expensive than a Taylor Hall to acquire.

Drouin has 6 points in 6 games, the Oilers ask for him now, the ask back will be Nugent Hopkins or Evan Bouchard + another decent player.

You pay a premium when you're trying to get a young player under contract long term ... as the Oilers did stupidly in trading for Adam Larsson in the first place.
You're basing his value on six games of production? He started the year on their third line playing behind Lehkonen. Shrewd GMs target players when their value sits at a low point. He may have six points today, but does a player with known consistency issues continue that scoring pace?

Enough about Drouin though. If that happens, the wheels need to fall off the tracks in Montreal beforehand. The point was that there are many more realistic options out there with younger players better suited for a support role.

Assuming we continue to surge, I wouldn't be surprised to see us add that type of player mid-season to lessen the load on the top line. But I see Ken Holland limiting his options to players he will have control of beyond this season.
 

Soundwave

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You're basing his value on six games of production? He started the year on their third line playing behind Lehkonen. Shrewd GMs target players when their value sits at a low point. He may have six points today, but does a player with known consistency issues continue that scoring pace?

Enough about Drouin though. If that happens, the wheels need to fall off the tracks in Montreal beforehand. The point was that there are many more realistic options out there with younger players better suited for a support role.

Assuming we continue to surge, I wouldn't be surprised to see us add that type of player mid-season to lessen the load on the top line. But I see Ken Holland limiting his options to players he will have control of beyond this season.

I mean honestly though lets look at this ...

The Oilers need a winger. Preferably in that 2nd LW spot. Jurco is alright, but I think long term no one can seriously think he is the viable solution there.

Who has speed and pushes the pace so there isn't a large drop off when ever McDavid + Drai leave the ice. Our lines 2-4 are still too slow.

You have to admit ... there's not a lot of players available that could fill that role and probably none better than Taylor Hall.

It just goes to show too that the whole basis for the trade was stupid ... Hall is exactly the type of player we need, Larsson is meanwhile being replaced by Persson/Benning just fine.
 

Mcnotloilersfan

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I think the only thing people have to keep in mind, is that we are day dreaming if we think this doesn't get done without a high end asset going the other way, especially because they would have to do us a favour by taking on some cap.

I know people have mentioned Larsson often, but he could be someone we want around for the playoffs. Both in terms of depth and style of play.

I'd be leaning towards something more like
1st
Jones or Samorukov (I'd hate to see him go, but we are deep on the left side)
Maksimov or McLeod
Gagner (cap dump)
Manning (cap dump)

for Hall under the condition that he agrees to a discounted 8 year deal.
 

Soundwave

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I think the only thing people have to keep in mind, is that we are day dreaming if we think this doesn't get done without a high end asset going the other way, especially because they would have to do us a favour by taking on some cap.

I know people have mentioned Larsson often, but he could be someone we want around for the playoffs. Both in terms of depth and style of play.

I'd be leaning towards something more like
1st
Jones or Samorukov (I'd hate to see him go, but we are deep on the left side)
Maksimov or McLeod
Gagner (cap dump)
Manning (cap dump)

for Hall under the condition that he agrees to a discounted 8 year deal.

Where does Larsson really even fit in the big picture here? Evan Bouchard is going to be on the team next year almost certainly, with Bear looking far better with Nurse than Larsson ever did, that makes Larsson ... the 3rd pairing RD?

We never should have traded for him in the first place, it becomes more and more obvious the more time that passes.

He is a replaceable cog player who doesn't move the puck well at all. The Oilers breakout looks much better with him gone.
 

belair

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The best GMs are always trading older players with limited term for long term assets with good upside. Samorukov has a ton of upside along with the 1st, and the capspace acquired. 1.5 years of RNH isn’t worth a blue chip prospect, high pick, and the cap space. If he was signed for 7 years obviously it’s a different conversation.
What you're describing here is a GM on a team 'selling' a player who the organization no longer deems valuable to them moving forward. If the player in question is one who is a contributing player highly valued by the organization, the term left remaining on that deal means absolutely nothing to them. It's likely the team will be seeking an extension at some point in the near future.

You're valuating a player from the perspective of one franchise--the one looking to acquire him.
 

Mcnotloilersfan

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Where does Larsson really even fit in the big picture here? Evan Bouchard is going to be on the team next year almost certainly, with Bear looking far better with Nurse than Larsson ever did, that makes Larsson ... the 3rd pairing RD?

We never should have traded for him in the first place, it becomes more and more obvious the more time that passes.

He is a replaceable cog player who doesn't move the puck well at all.

No long term there isn't a fit for sure, and I wouldn't be overly upset about losing him. I was just thinking of keeping him around for now in a rental capacity.

That said the more I think of it, Gagner and Manning are off the books next year anyway, and we probably have to lose Larsson to keep Hall under contract.
 

frag2

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Where does Larsson really even fit in the big picture here? Evan Bouchard is going to be on the team next year almost certainly, with Bear looking far better with Nurse than Larsson ever did, that makes Larsson ... the 3rd pairing RD?

We never should have traded for him in the first place, it becomes more and more obvious the more time that passes.

He is a replaceable cog player who doesn't move the puck well at all.

I think this is how Holland will see it. If Bear and Perrson can actually maintain their game and the team wins with out Larsson [while hes on LTIR], chances are Larsson might be the odd man out
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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I mean honestly though lets look at this ...

The Oilers need a winger. Preferably in that 2nd LW spot. Jurco is alright, but I think long term no one can seriously think he is the viable solution there.

Who has speed and pushes the pace so there isn't a large drop off when ever McDavid + Drai leave the ice. Our lines 2-4 are still too slow.

You have to admit ... there's not a lot of players available that could fill that role and probably none better than Taylor Hall.

It just goes to show too that the whole basis for the trade was stupid ... Hall is exactly the type of player we need, Larsson is meanwhile being replaced by Persson/Benning just fine.
Of course there aren't. He's a primary point producer and he'll get paid like one. That isn't what's been argued here. Over the past two pages I've offered up a number of valid concerns that apply to addressing depth roles with all-stars. We're not even digging into Hall's game at this point.
 

OilerTitanFan

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This better not become a distraction for the current Oilers if they have to answer Taylor Hall trade rumour questions on a weekly basis from our clown show local media.
Crosby might be a better option for the oilers. Imagine Crosby and McDavid together. Let's start that rumor so the Oilers have to answer to that instead.
 
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Canovin

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I think waiting for Hall to reach free agency is our best bet. No need to waste assets. If Hall truly wants to win, then it doesn't matter the salary, he will take a discount.
Trading for him he will ask for the full 8 years. Signing with us in July gets him 7 years max. For an injury prone player like Hall, 7 years is better for us.
 

Raab

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What you're describing here is a GM on a team 'selling' a player who the organization no longer deems valuable to them moving forward. If the player in question is one who is a contributing player highly valued by the organization, the term left remaining on that deal means absolutely nothing to them. It's likely the team will be seeking an extension at some point in the near future.

You're valuating a player from the perspective of one franchise--the one looking to acquire him.

No any organization should. Look at LA, they should have moved Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty a couple years ago. But because they didn’t get younger there now going to struggle. Same could be said of Chicago with Seabrook and Keith. If you can get premium assets for aging players, you should do that. Holding onto assets until they decline isn’t how you win. With RNH if we can re-sign him I think we should be in no rush to trade him. But once he’s around that 30ish mark, id move him for a young center man with #1 upside.
 
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