Rumor: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Adam Larsson for 3-4 years at 3.75?

[The Nuge]

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You sign Barrie all day long if you can, and if you do drop a player its Bear and his 2 M.

Let Bouch play next year and marinade under Barrie. Barrie is a player this team needs/wanted for years.

Instead of dropping Bear get him to work on playing LD in the offseason.

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[Paralyzer008]

See I want to clarify that I want to keep Tyson Barrie. I think he can work really, really well here in the right role.

But, also, I:

1) Want to keep Bouchard and Bear

2) Don't want to give Barrie term for cost-control reasons going forward

So that is the dilemma with keeping him. If Barrie signed here for 1-2 more years, sign me up. But that's not what he wants.

Plus, we're probably keeping Larsson, where it'll be great for the first year but risky years 2-4 with his injury history/potential he's a 3rd pairing Kris Russell-type by that 3rd year. That obviously means bringing in someone else ships Bear or Bouchard out the door at that point.

Also, Tippett won't end up deploying the D the way I think would work anyways. I'd love to see:

Nurse-Bouchard (or Nurse-Bear)
Klefbom-Bear (or Klefbom-Bouchard)
Larsson-Barrie

If Larsson can't swap to the left, Jamie Oleksiak as a UFA can play that same role. So for the reasons above, I'm okay if Barrie walks.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

See I want to clarify that I want to keep Tyson Barrie. I think he can work really, really well here in the right role.

But, also, I:

1) Want to keep Bouchard and Bear

2) Don't want to give Barrie term for cost-control reasons going forward

So that is the dilemma with keeping him. If Barrie signed here for 1-2 more years, sign me up. But that's not what he wants.

Plus, we're probably keeping Larsson, where it'll be great for the first year but risky years 2-4 with his injury history/potential he's a 3rd pairing Kris Russell-type by that 3rd year. That obviously means bringing in someone else ships Bear or Bouchard out the door at that point.

Also, Tippett won't end up deploying the D the way I think would work anyways. I'd love to see:

Nurse-Bouchard
Klefbom-Bear
Larsson-Barrie

If Larsson can't swap to the left, Jamie Oleksiak as a UFA can play that same role. So for the reasons above, I'm okay if Barrie walks.

Rookie d-men don't play top pairing EV minutes on good teams. If we're not getting Barrie back, there's got to be a plan to replace him with a capable defender.

We also can't slot in Klefbom to a top-4 pairing. He missed 20 games a year when he didn't have career threatening injuries. If he plays, found money. Don't bank on it though

 

[Paralyzer008]

Rookie d-men don't play top pairing EV minutes on good teams. If we're not getting Barrie back, there's got to be a plan to replace him with a capable defender.

We also can't slot in Klefbom to a top-4 pairing. He missed 20 games a year when he didn't have career threatening injuries. If he plays, found money. Don't bank on it though

Okay so we're screwed.

We're not magically finding two top-four D out of nowhere.

Also didn't the Avs and Canucks both play Makar and Hughes top minutes on teams that made playoffs? As rookies?

You could flip Bear and Bouchard on my chart, I have no problem with Nurse-Bear, Klefbom-Bouchard either. If you want to give Larsson-Barrie more icetime be my guest, just those are my optimal pairings.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Nurse-Barrie is a pairing that wins you a Stanley Cup.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Okay so we're screwed.

We're not magically finding two top-four D out of nowhere.

Also didn't the Avs and Canucks both play Makar and Hughes top minutes on teams that made playoffs? As rookies?

You could flip Bear and Bouchard on my chart, I have no problem with Nurse-Bear, Klefbom-Bouchard either. If you want to give Larsson-Barrie more icetime be my guest, just those are my optimal pairings.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Nurse-Barrie is a pairing that wins you a Stanley Cup.

Are you comparing Bouchard to Hughes and Makar?

Don't shoot the messenger. It's not my fault we're heading into the offseason without a 2nd pairing LD and top pairing RD. It certainly won't be the first time.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Are you comparing Bouchard to Hughes and Makar?

Don't shoot the messenger. It's not my fault we're heading into the offseason without a 2nd pairing LD and top pairing RD. It certainly won't be the first time.

Well is Bouchard speedy like Makar and Hughes? No.

Is he a top 10 pick that has elite vision like those two? Yes.

Did Makar or Hughes have guys like McDavid AND Nurse to help the transition? Well, Makar had MacKinnon, but I don't think VAN or COL had a guy like Nurse or even healthy Klef (and a lot of this depends on where Klef is at, I understand it's a big wildcard right now). In Makar's rookie year, their top EV TOI D was Samuel Girard. The Avs have given Girard a lot of opportunity as a young D to really use his talent.

I know in Edmonton we're used to having prospects backfire but a lot of that was expecting them to be the core right away. I don't think Bouchard needs to be core right away. I think he's capable of filling the Barrie spot because Barrie has the easiest NHL role in the league. If not, Bear I think could be given a real try there too. Nurse does a ton for Barrie to do what he wants to do. If Nurse is as good as everyone around here says, and he's worth 8M or whatever he may get, I think he can help a younger D transition.

I just can't for the life of me think giving Barrie the 5 or 6 years he wants leads us to a Stanley Cup. That sounds like a hell of a handcuff deal soon.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Well is Bouchard speedy like Makar and Hughes? No.

Is he a top 10 pick that has elite vision like those two? Yes.

Did Makar or Hughes have guys like McDavid AND Nurse to help the transition? Well, Makar had MacKinnon, but I don't think VAN or COL had a guy like Nurse or even healthy Klef (and a lot of this depends on where Klef is at, I understand it's a big wildcard right now). In Makar's rookie year, their top EV TOI D was Samuel Girard. The Avs have given Girard a lot of opportunity as a young D to really use his talent.

I know in Edmonton we're used to having prospects backfire but a lot of that was expecting them to be the core right away. I don't think Bouchard needs to be core right away. I think he's capable of filling the Barrie spot because Barrie has the easiest NHL role in the league. If not, Bear I think could be given a real try there too. Nurse does a ton for Barrie to do what he wants to do. If Nurse is as good as everyone around here says, and he's worth 8M or whatever he may get, I think he can help a younger D transition.

I just can't for the life of me think giving Barrie the 5 or 6 years he wants leads us to a Stanley Cup. That sounds like a hell of a handcuff deal soon.

You really think, after sitting Bouchard for most of the year despite being with the team since day 1, staying behind Bear on the depth chart despite Bear's struggles this season, that Tippett will all of a sudden give him top-pairing duties overnight?

 

[TheNumber4]

Rookie d-men don't play top pairing EV minutes on good teams. If we're not getting Barrie back, there's got to be a plan to replace him with a capable defender.

We also can't slot in Klefbom to a top-4 pairing. He missed 20 games a year when he didn't have career threatening injuries. If he plays, found money. Don't bank on it though

If the rookie is good enough you can. It’s happened many times before, look at Makar, Hughes, some of the studs the Stars have been able to find. And pretty sure highly touted d-men like Doughty and Herman were thrown right in and expected to be able to take top pair minutes.

That all being said, I don’t think Bouch is that type of d-men. Elite offensively, but still needs a bit of work on his motor and positioning. It’s close enough though that I wouldn’t mind losing Barrie, but if it was up to me we keep him and all the talent we can.

 

[Paralyzer008]

You really think, after sitting Bouchard for most of the year despite being with the team since day 1, staying behind Bear on the depth chart despite Bear's struggles this season, that Tippett will all of a sudden give him top-pairing duties overnight?

Well as I explained in my post, no. I don't trust Tippett to do that at all.

This is just what I'd want. I've been at odds with Tippett all season. If we win the cup, he can rest his case.

 

[McShogun99]

Are you comparing Bouchard to Hughes and Makar?

Don't shoot the messenger. It's not my fault we're heading into the offseason without a 2nd pairing LD and top pairing RD. It certainly won't be the first time.

Hughes is horrible defensively and Makar is already one of the best D in the league already. I think Bouchard would excel if given the same opportunities as those two players. You can already see that he has high hockey IQ and elite offensive abilities. He just isn’t strong defensively.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I had many depth chart ideas that involved us moving on from Larsson, but that deal is basically done, so have to move forward with him in the lineup for next year.

I wondered if we could go for Dougie Hamilton, but that would probably mean you don't keep Nurse after 2021-22 or some other shoe has to drop (maybe Klefbom never returning).

Hamilton is probably the one RHD I'd give term to. He's a monster. All situations. That's a rare UFA, you don't see them often.

As it stands now though, our left side is...shoddy for sure on pairing 2. The right D has promise for years to come, but also we have to figure out what is happening with Barrie.

 

[TheNumber4]

Well as I explained in my post, no. I don't trust Tippett to do that at all.

This is just what I'd want. I've been at odds with Tippett all season. If we win the cup, he can rest his case.

If winning the Cup is your line in the sand in determining good or bad coach... then I’m glad your not the GM lol.

To my eye, this is one the best coached Oilers teams in what like 20 years? Our PP is good this year and last year. Our Pk is good this year and last year (despite personnel changes), effort levels up and down the lineup are high, buy in is high, team has steadily increased in many areas during his tenure, our young players are developing and doing well under his watch.... you’d think comin from the likes of Eakins, Krueger, Koala, MacT etc we could get some respect for what Tipps has accomplished but I guess not.

 

[Paralyzer008]

If winning the Cup is your line in the sand in determining is a good or bad coach... then I’ll glad your not the GM lol.

To my eye, this is one the best coached Oilers teams in what like 20 years? Our PP is good this year and last year. Our Pk is good this year and last year (despite personnel changes), effort levels up and down the lineup are high, buy in is high, team has steadily increased in many areas during his tenure, our young players are developing and doing well under his watch.... you’d think comin from the likes of Eakins, Krueger, Koala, MacT etc we could get some respect for what Tipps has accomplished but I guess not.

Well, we have Connor McDavid. Plus, Leon Draisaitl.

Gretzky won 4 cups. Crosby won 3 cups.

Mario Lemieux only won 2 cups, and that was frankly a tragedy.

We have, to my eye, the best player of an era on our team. The bar should be a Stanley Cup when you have a player like this.

Also, Leon Draisaitl. Our 2nd best player is a Hart winner, who BEAT his pace this season.

Does Tippett have a hand in their success? Absolutely he does. But last year the team had a strong year, and what is the ultimate thing we remember? Bounced by Chicago, in a kind of embarrassing fashion. Yes, lots of excuses to be made about that, but with our talents, being good in the regular season is a given. We've been blessed. The playoffs are where our coaching truly gets put to the test, best on best.

Tippett has only had one playoff, in a weird year. He has plenty of time for me to become a legend here. I just haven't agreed with a lot of the decision-making.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

While we're talking defense, I doubt Vegas can afford to keep Martinez. He'd be a terrific fit in the 2LD slot.

 

[780il]

While we're talking defense, I doubt Vegas can afford to keep Martinez. He'd be a terrific fit in the 2LD slot.

Just had his best of his career so won’t come cheap at all. And he’s 34 in the summer so idk, could be a great 2 year bridge to Broberg if Klef isn’t coming back.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Just had his best of his career so won’t come cheap at all. And he’s 34 in the summer so idk, could be a great 2 year bridge to Broberg if Klef isn’t coming back.

I didn't think we could get him cheap. Was thinking if Barrie isn't coming back and we can't get a RHD to replace him, Martinez is a good plan B with that money.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I didn't think we could get him cheap. Was thinking if Barrie isn't coming back and we can't get a RHD to replace him, Martinez is a good plan B with that money.

What are your thoughts on Mike Reilly?

Do you think he's real, what he's done in Boston and Ottawa this year? Or is that just an aberration?

I think he might be real. Great puck-mover, Bruce Cassidy really trusts him. I could see him and Larsson making a great pairing.

We won a championship in Edmonton with the last Mike Reilly.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

What are your thoughts on Mike Reilly?

Do you think he's real, what he's done in Boston and Ottawa this year? Or is that just an aberration?

I think he might be real. Great puck-mover, Bruce Cassidy really trusts him. I could see him and Larsson making a great pairing.

We won a championship in Edmonton with the last Mike Reilly.

Can't comment on Rielly as I haven't seen him play 'good' enough times to like him yet. He's been a fringe NHL dman up until this year, no?

 

[Paralyzer008]

Can't comment on Rielly as I haven't seen him play 'good' enough times to like him yet. He's been a fringe NHL dman up until this year, no?

Yeah. If you add up his Ottawa numbers after being picked up by them, he put up 31 points in 70 games for them.

Looked really good in the stretch in Boston since being acquired. Played No.2 minutes when Grzelcyk was hurt and plays on their 2nd pair with Carlo. Had 8 assists in 15 games. Can move the puck well. Surprisingly competent defensively. Good analytics. I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays in Boston's playoffs. I didn't think he played too well tonight.

 

[voxel]

Oilers are going to have a heck of a time trying to fit Nurse, Barrie, Bear, Bouchard, Larsson, Russell, Samorukov, Lagesson, Jones, Broberg into the lineup. We lose one to Seattle and maybe one of Barrie/Larsson walk and Broberg plays in the AHL. We also lose one of Jones/Lagesson to waivers if they don't make the lineup.

I feel we should be trading one of Bear/Bouchard/Samorukov/Lagesson/Jones just because playing so many young D is not going to help us win. Then signing or trading for a vet D make sense.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Oilers are going to have a heck of a time trying to fit Nurse, Barrie, Bear, Bouchard, Larsson, Russell, Samorukov, Lagesson, Jones, Broberg into the lineup. We lose one to Seattle and maybe one of Barrie/Larsson walk and Broberg plays in the AHL. We also lose one of Jones/Lagesson to waivers if they don't make the lineup.

I feel we should be trading one of Bear/Bouchard/Samorukov/Lagesson/Jones just because playing so many young D is not going to help us win. Then signing or trading for a vet D make sense.

Just curious, why is Broberg exempt?

I don't think Lagesson is much, and Jones is basically gone. Don't see either having much future here. I'd have time to maybe move Samorukov because, in theory, he'll never be a top 4 D here if you do keep Broberg and have Nurse/Broberg as your future final 4 plan. I think Samorukov is ahead of Broberg right now though in terms of development.

Bear will be in his 3rd year next season. There's a chance for a real leap after a big summer of training. I do think there's a gap (at least on HF) of people who are comfortable with Bear/Bouchard fighting for minutes on the RHD though vs bringing a vet in/keeping Barrie, and it truly depends on your belief in Bear/Bouchard's immediate futures. I know I believe more in them than many HF posters.

I want to spend the money at forward, and in net. I don't want to be a low-event team and that's what we are right now without McDavid or Draisaitl on the ice. I would have preferred Barrie at 2 years instead of Larsson at 4 years, but it appears the alternative is Barrie at 6 years. But Larsson helps us defensively more if you do have Bear/Bouch as your other 2 RHD.

 

[yukoner88]

Larsson at 3.75M is very reasonable.

Barrie I think is worth extension with some term, and I think the $$$ he'll be asking very reasonable, especially compared to what he was demanding from Toronto. His contract demands to the Leafs seemed more like him giving them the middle finger for how he was treated there. Barrie's body language on the ice screams of someone who loves this locker room and has gelled extremely well with McDrai, and that chemistry is worth its weight in gold.

Another important factor is that, while his defensive play isn't the greatest, his puck and play making does more than just making up for that. Barrie is a seasoned NHL veteran (just like Larsson). Having NHL veterans in their prime on the blue line will be solid mentors for the younger guys coming up from Bakersfield (ala Bouchard, Benson, McLeod etc), along with the younger damn still trying to establish themselves as NHL regulars.

On top of that, even if Klefbom is able to comeback next season, we have no idea what Klefbom will be like. So having the best quality NHL depth we can get our hands on is crucial.

We've been waiting for ages for a damn to come in and step up the way Barrie has. Letting him walk would be a huge mistake. Bouchard is no guarantee (he shouldn't be rushed anyway), and there's even less odds we sign a different dman who could contribute on the same level Barrie did this year.

 

[Llamamoto]

Rookie d-men don't play top pairing EV minutes on good teams. If we're not getting Barrie back, there's got to be a plan to replace him with a capable defender.

We also can't slot in Klefbom to a top-4 pairing. He missed 20 games a year when he didn't have career threatening injuries. If he plays, found money. Don't bank on it though

If Larsson - Barrie is our third pairing, Bouchard's EV mins won't be too much.

 

[Paralyzer008]

If Larsson - Barrie is our third pairing, Bouchard's EV mins won't be too much.

Also knowing Tippett, he could stack Nurse-Larsson in situations where we have a lead. That would decrease Bouchard's EV minutes too.

 

[North]

Larsson at 3.75M is very reasonable.

Barrie I think is worth extension with some term, and I think the $$$ he'll be asking very reasonable, especially compared to what he was demanding from Toronto. His contract demands to the Leafs seemed more like him giving them the middle finger for how he was treated there. Barrie's body language on the ice screams of someone who loves this locker room and has gelled extremely well with McDrai, and that chemistry is worth its weight in gold.

Another important factor is that, while his defensive play isn't the greatest, his puck and play making does more than just making up for that. Barrie is a seasoned NHL veteran (just like Larsson). Having NHL veterans in their prime on the blue line will be solid mentors for the younger guys coming up from Bakersfield (ala Bouchard, Benson, McLeod etc), along with the younger damn still trying to establish themselves as NHL regulars.

On top of that, even if Klefbom is able to comeback next season, we have no idea what Klefbom will be like. So having the best quality NHL depth we can get our hands on is crucial.

We've been waiting for ages for a damn to come in and step up the way Barrie has. Letting him walk would be a huge mistake. Bouchard is no guarantee (he shouldn't be rushed anyway), and there's even less odds we sign a different dman who could contribute on the same level Barrie did this year.

I’ve wanted to re-sign Barrie but if it’s true he wants 5-6 years, that’s a hard pass.

He’s going to be 30 in July and I think anybody who signs him to a long term deal like that is going to come to regret it.