Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2017-18

[Aavco Cup]

Iggy Pop, Jagger, Stevie Tyler. Most of these dudes are in their 70's and after partying harder than probably any NHLer could ever dream of they still manage to get up on stage and put on a show. Yeah there are definitely a few Ozzies out there that are just fried but a good majority of them are still able to get on stage and run around like an 18 year old. Substance abuse is a fickle thing but I don't think it ruins careers in a physical way more so then it becomes a distraction or in some cases an escape from a larger problem. Then there are the unlucky few who are likely dabbling in substance abuse because of brain related issues but that stems more from getting smashed in the head repeatedly over a their typically short careers.
You look at a guy like Kassian who had some major substance abuse problems and as soon as he kicks them he is back in game shape and was actually not bad for the Oilers this year in a limited role. I don't think substance abuse really takes a toll on these guys as much as it takes away from them actually staying in shape and being dedicated to the game. It's NHL has kept a pretty tight lid on it's substance abuse problem but knowing guys that have been in and around the pro circuit party scenes there is definitely a problem that is a lot larger than the NHL makes it out to be some guys are just deeper than others.

They still "perform" but in no way do they still do things physically they did on stage as 18 year olds.

 

[Daximus]

They still "perform" but in no way do they still do things physically they did on stage as 18 year olds.

Go watch Iggy and the Stooges preform and then look up an old concert of theirs and come back and tell me he still can't preform like he's 18. Guy could probably run laps around most of us.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Go watch Iggy and the Stooges preform and then look up an old concert of theirs and come back and tell me he still can't preform like he's 18. Guy could probably run laps around most of us.

That's one although I doubt he can do what he did at 18. Go watch Townsend now. Even Jagger is a shadow of his 1970's self and he is one of the few who has actually stayed in shape. Very few of those performers can do physically what they did when they were young. It has nothing to do with vices though IMO. It's just old age.

 

[Daximus]

That's one although I doubt he can do what he did at 18. Go watch Townsend now. Even Jagger is a shadow of his 1970's self and he is one of the few who has actually stayed in shape. Very few of those performers can do physically what they did when they were young. It has nothing to do with vices though IMO. It's just old age.

But for their age they are in ridiculously good shape. Most 70 year olds I know can hardly stand up. Could be the difference in working blue collor jobs and retiring at 65 vs never really physically working hard and partying. Hard labour takes its toll.

 

[Aavco Cup]

But for their age they are in ridiculously good shape. Most 70 year olds I know can hardly stand up. Could be the difference in working blue collor jobs and retiring at 65 vs never really physically working hard and partying. Hard labour takes its toll.

You're stretching for something that isn't there. I know plenty of 70 year olds who are in fantastic shape. Musicians are likely on a similar proportion to society as a whole in that area. I' be seen many who look tired and old on stage and many who even need a chair

I never objected to your argument some are in great shape. It was that they could still do the same things they did in their 20's which is a blatant exaggerated untruth.

 

[Daximus]

You're stretching for something that isn't there. I know plenty of 70 year olds who are in fantastic shape. Musicians are likely on a similar proportion to society as a whole in that area. I' be seen many who look tired and old on stage and many who even need a chair

I never objected to your argument some are in great shape. It was that they could still do the same things they did in their 20's which is a blatant exaggerated untruth.

Not all the same things. Just putting on a good show and being energetic on stage. You can twist it however you want but just watching them do their thing proves it. Agree to disagree if you like. No skin off my chin.

 

[Jet]

Don't they tend to be larger players who rely less on speed/quickness? Not debating, just asking.

I feel like Bryan's smarts, positioning and hands will serve him well when he's older.

 

[Bob E]

Hobey Baker winner Will Butcher going to test FA.

Smallish size, but LH dman, maybe he could be Enstrom's eventual replacement. Any word on whether Jets are interested?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Hobey Baker winner Will Butcher going to test FA.

Smallish size, but LH dman, maybe he could be Enstrom's eventual replacement. Any word on whether Jets are interested?

Doesn't play anything at all like Enstrom. He plays more like...former Jets prospect and high scoring college D Will O'Neill. Butcher has some talent no doubt, but he is offense first, offense only. His top end potential is more Marc-Andre Bergeron than Toby Enstrom.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I feel like Bryan's smarts, positioning and hands will serve him well when he's older.

Don't disagree. Not sure that will be enough - or not.

 

[Bob E]

Doesn't play anything at all like Enstrom. He plays more like...former Jets prospect and high scoring college D Will O'Neill. Butcher has some talent no doubt, but he is offense first, offense only. His top end potential is more Marc-Andre Bergeron than Toby Enstrom.

Didn't say he was the same player, just a potential replacement. Meaning a LH dman to play in bottom pairing, as Enstrom is likely a bottom pairing dman now.

Isn't puck moving offensive dmen all the rage. Who needs a defensive dman when you can have offense.

 

[Skiffer55]

Doesn't play anything at all like Enstrom. He plays more like...former Jets prospect and high scoring college D Will O'Neill. Butcher has some talent no doubt, but he is offense first, offense only. His top end potential is more Marc-Andre Bergeron than Toby Enstrom.

Yeah most Avs fans on the main board seemed totally fine with him leaving too, called him a 'meh' prospect. Wouldn't hurt to add him but he's not a 5 star type.

 

[Gm0ney]

Yeah most Avs fans on the main board seemed totally fine with him leaving too, called him a 'meh' prospect. Wouldn't hurt to add him but he's not a 5 star type.

The Avs told him last year that he wasn't part of their future plans - then changed their tune when he won the awards this year. Anyway, he'll probably get to pick his spot now - I think most teams would roll the dice on a free asset like him if they have the contract space.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

The Avs told him last year that he wasn't part of their future plans - then changed their tune when he won the awards this year. Anyway, he'll probably get to pick his spot now - I think most teams would roll the dice on a free asset like him if they have the contract space.

I would definitely take a flyer on him. I'm pretty sure all 31 teams would give him a contract. It's always possible his game translates better than expected.

However he is a guy might barely crack the top 20prospect list for the Jets. Probably a 15-22 on the Jets list. To start talking about the guy as even a possible Enstrom replacement is not particularly realistic at the moment.

 

[truck]

I would definitely take a flyer on him. I'm pretty sure all 31 teams would give him a contract. It's always possible his game translates better than expected.

However he is a guy might barely crack the top rospect list for the Jets. Probably a 15-22 on the Jets list. To start talking about the guy as even a possible Enstrom replacement is not particularly realistic at the moment.

Two years younger than Poolman and out-scored him every step of the way. He'd have merit to land in conversation for the top 10 around Kovacevic and Stanley. He'd surely would belong ahead of players like Green and Nogier and Gawanke. 22 is a massive undersell.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Two years younger than Poolman and out-scored him every step of the way. He'd have merit to land in conversation for the top 10 around Kovacevic and Stanley. He'd surely would belong ahead of players like Green and Nogier and Gawanke. 22 is a massive undersell.

Well I was just talking for myself, as that's the only person I can talk for. I personally prefer Gawanke or Green from limited viewings. Nogier no question well well ahead. Kovecevic I still have no idea what to make of. I'd probably have him around Stanley.

 

[HannuJ]

I've asked this before, but Honey Baker award (in the old days) didn't really translate to NHL success. i.e.the Kip Miller Syndrome. So I would rather not get in a bidding war for a UFA that is going to want to be promised minutes, esp when he wouldn't be guaranteed any whatsoever here.
And that's all the Jets need...a zero D player.

P.s. the Rockstar conversation is all confirmation bias. For every Steve Tyler, you have a Keith Moon. For every Keith Richards, you have a Jimmy Hendrix. Many burned out due to lifestyle. Same in the NHL. There's a reason can't miss prospects occasionally miss.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

All he can get is a max level elc anyways he would be very good for the Moose though

 

[garret9]

Didn't say he was the same player, just a potential replacement. Meaning a LH dman to play in bottom pairing, as Enstrom is likely a bottom pairing dman now.

Isn't puck moving offensive dmen all the rage. Who needs a defensive dman when you can have offense.

It's not that offensive defenders are by nature better than offensive defenders.
Vlasic, Doughty, Martin, Dumoulin, Manson, Hamhuis, Tanev, etc. are all better than a LOT of offensively talented defenders.
Some very strong offensive defenders are not that great in overall impact: Ristolaine, Daley, Streit, etc.

That said, there is definitely a minimal standard of non-defensive skills required to be a capable defensive defender. Vlasic, Doughty, Martin, Domoulin, Manson, Hamhuis, Tanev, and others are all capable skaters and also have solid puck skills with moving the puck once they've taken control of the play.

Defensive defenders who cannot do those other things are the issue.
It used to be the "coke machine" tall defender that defended the front of the net but not much else that were the bulk of the weak links.
Now it's "coke machine" tall defenders that can skate but still not handle the puck well, as those that cannot skate have been somewhat weeded out.

 

[Bob E]

It's not that offensive defenders are by nature better than offensive defenders.
Vlasic, Doughty, Martin, Dumoulin, Manson, Hamhuis, Tanev, etc. are all better than a LOT of offensively talented defenders.
Some very strong offensive defenders are not that great in overall impact: Ristolaine, Daley, Streit, etc.

That said, there is definitely a minimal standard of non-defensive skills required to be a capable defensive defender. Vlasic, Doughty, Martin, Domoulin, Manson, Hamhuis, Tanev, and others are all capable skaters and also have solid puck skills with moving the puck once they've taken control of the play.

Defensive defenders who cannot do those other things are the issue.
It used to be the "coke machine" tall defender that defended the front of the net but not much else that were the bulk of the weak links.
Now it's "coke machine" tall defenders that can skate but still not handle the puck well, as those that cannot skate have been somewhat weeded out.

Well it's certainly skating that makes Stanley a questionable prospect. Better mobility and agility could allow him to move the puck better as well, as he would get into position to make a pass quicker and with better passing seams.

If Butcher can be an effective puck mover at the AHL level, then there might be a role for him on an NHL team. He would still need to be in good positions and effectively battle in the defensive zone, like young Josh Morrissey, to be an effective NHL player.

You're not teaching him how to skate and pass. You're teaching him where to play in the d zone. Might be worth a contract.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Looking at Cap Friendly and our 2018-19 situation is a scary thought.

Currently set to hit UFA
Little, Matthias, Enstrom, Hutch
Minors - Schilling

Currently Set to hit RFA
Trouba, Ehlers, Morrissey, Lowry, Hellebuyck, Armia, Petan, Dano, Tanev
Minors - Comrie, Poolman, De Leo, Kostalek, Phillips, Lodge, Robinson, Lipon, Sgarbossa Melchiori,

Only 10 players with contracts.
That's a crazy busy year.

Plus you have a potential early Laine extension and Wheeler, Myers and Mason's impending UFA year.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Looking at Cap Friendly and our 2018-19 situation is a scary thought.

Currently set to hit UFA
Little, Matthias, Enstrom, Hutch
Minors - Schilling

Currently Set to hit RFA
Trouba, Ehlers, Morrissey, Lowry, Hellebuyck, Armia, Petan, Dano, Tanev
Minors - Comrie, Poolman, De Leo, Kostalek, Phillips, Lodge, Robinson, Lipon, Sgarbossa Melchiori,

Only 10 players with contracts.
That's a crazy busy year.

Plus you have a potential early Laine extension and Wheeler, Myers and Mason's impending UFA year.

could explain picking up a goalie and D as UFAs this year. Mngt has realized the next 2 years may be their best shot at cup.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

could explain picking up a goalie and D as UFAs this year. Mngt has realized the next 2 years may be their best shot at cup.

Kind of sad that if the Jets are too successful then they likely lose a bunch of players. The end of this season may have worked better to keep a bunch of people. Jets under perform and potentially save some money on certain players. Now if we have the improvements we hope for it may become near impossible to keep the band together.

 

[libertarian]

Kind of sad that if the Jets are too successful then they likely lose a bunch of players. The end of this season may have worked better to keep a bunch of people. Jets under perform and potentially save some money on certain players. Now if we have the improvements we hope for it may become near impossible to keep the band together.

Sorry but why keep the band together if they can't make the playoffs? My best case scenario is the Jets make a deep run in the playoffs next year and maybe players like Little will be more receptive to leaving money on the table for a chance at a SC. That assuming Little does not sign this summer. Enstrom may also be willing to sign a 1 or 2 year deal for 2m per. Hutch and Matthias will be gone after next season.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Sorry but why keep the band together if they can't make the playoffs? My best case scenario is the Jets make a deep run in the playoffs next year and maybe players like Little will be more receptive to leaving money on the table for a chance at a SC. That assuming Little does not sign this summer. Enstrom may also be willing to sign a 1 or 2 year deal for 2m per. Hutch and Matthias will be gone after next season.

The band doesn't include every player on the current roster.
But losing players from the bigger list would hurt.