Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2021-22 Pt. VII - Cool Down the Fax

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Wanderson

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When you say ease Bolduc and/or Salo in I assume you are talking about sometime in the last 2 months of the season if there is a need for them.

I think both Salo and Bolduc would be best served with a full season in the AHL.

I wouldn’t compare Salo and Bolduc at the moment. Salo IS better. Last season he played with Örebro in the SHL, they had the best d-core in the whole league. I don’t think you guys knew that he was their best defender by far - and also one of the best defenders in the whole league.

If Moritz Seider is NHL ready, so is Robin Salo.
 
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MJF

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I wouldn’t compare Salo and Bolduc at the moment. Salo IS better. Last season he played with Örebro in the SHL, they had the best d-core in the whole league. I don’t think you guys knew that he was their best defender by far - and also one of the best defenders in the whole league.

If Moritz Seider is NHL ready, so is Robin Salo.
Is Seider ready? I didn’t watch the Red Wings very much last season. Did he play because they really have nothing else to put out there?
 

JKP

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Why? He got much more experience than what Dobson had when he became a regular in the line up.

And it seems like Lou is listening to our scouts in Europe, just look at the two last drafts. I’m sure they know how good Salo played last season. He might be the answer.
He's never played on NA-sized ice. He's never played against NA pros. There is no way he is "Plan A, B or C" with a mgmt group that chose Zajac's experience over Whalstrom's skill level.
 

Wanderson

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Let's talk more about Chara plz.

upload_2021-8-3_22-35-20.jpeg


Is Seider ready? I didn’t watch the Red Wings very much last season. Did he play because they really have nothing else to put out there?

He will play in the NHL next season on own merit, people are even saying that Detroit traded for Leddy because they wanted a mentor for him.
 
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Wanderson

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He's never played on NA-sized ice. He's never played against NA pros. There is no way he is "Plan A, B or C" with a mgmt group that chose Zajac's experience over Whalstrom's skill level.

Sorokin wasn’t forced to start his stint in NA in the minors.

Robin also played for SaiPa in the FEL for two seasons, their rink is two meters smaller than the normal international rink. So he already got some experience from “smaller rinks” (not as small as the NHL rink though).

NHL rink: 26 x 60 meter
Finnish rinks: 28 x 60 meter (at least a few, SaiPa included)
International rinks: 30 x 60 meter
 
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hunter7isles

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To MJF, when I say Bolduc or Salo, I mean later in the season likely, yes. Aho or Hickey would fill the void with injury early on. I could see them giving Salo a look also though earlier than the last two months.
 
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The Real JT

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I wouldn’t compare Salo and Bolduc at the moment. Salo IS better. Last season he played with Örebro in the SHL, they had the best d-core in the whole league. I don’t think you guys knew that he was their best defender by far - and also one of the best defenders in the whole league.

If Moritz Seider is NHL ready, so is Robin Salo.
Hope you're right but at best Lou would pencil him in as #7Dman.

He'll sign a placeholder soon or make a trade.
 

JKP

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Sorokin wasn’t forced to start his stint in NA in the minors.

Robin also played for SaiPa in the FEL for two seasons, their rink is two meters smaller than the normal international rink. So he already got some experience from “smaller rinks” (not as small as the NHL rink though).

NHL rink: 26 x 60 meter
Finnish rinks: 28 x 60 meter (at least a few, SaiPa included)
International rinks: 30 x 60 meter
You can rationalize it all you want. Sorokin had been a pro for 5+ years, set numerous records in a league most consider the second best in the world and won a championship there. And he still had 2 months of practice in the bubble and was babied into the line up. Salo played in an inferior league, for less time and didn't set any records I'm aware of or was the MVP of a championship. To compare the two is not apples to apples.

I'm not down on the player (quite the contrary) and clearly I have no clue what is in Lou's head, but if you pay any attention to how Lou and Trotz operate, I find it hard to imagine that those two dudes are thinking the Isles are set for their top 6 because Salo slides in on opening night.
 
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Top Corner

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He's never played on NA-sized ice. He's never played against NA pros. There is no way he is "Plan A, B or C" with a mgmt group that chose Zajac's experience over Whalstrom's skill level.
I would think it would be easier to defend in a smaller rink
 

Chapin Landvogt

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The expansion draft complicates things - it is clear Seattle was going to select Leddy as they favored d men in the ED. Lou was able to get value in a 2021 2nd (52 OA), which turned out to be (Raty) AND That allowed them to trade '21 2nd (60 OA) with another '22 2nd to jettison the Ladd contract with a clear conscience.

We don't know if Seattle would have taken Leddy. We all just figured they would.

And the Ladd deal could have been made without the Leddy deal taking place. None of the assets in the Leddy deal were used to make the Ladd deal.

Also, it pushed Seattle to take Eberle, who Lou tried to trade, but in the end, could not find a trade partner, or else he would have made a deal.

Wrote some writers.

There were less expensive players of ours for Seattle to choose from, most with shorter terms. Eberle appears to have been their personal desire.

So to label this as asset mismanagement is not entirely accurate

I didn't call any of that mismanagement.

I wrote this:
<<<
Well presented.

If we moved Leddy for a 2nd so as to move our 22 1st to replace Leddy, that's a high degree of asset management failure.
<<<

Which brings us to...

And to RDC's point - YES, it also depends on the acquired player... for example, if it is Hampus Lindholm for a package centered around the '22 1st... say an additional '23 2nd plus a prospect like Bellows or Wilde.

I'll tell you who is not the stud you think he is: Lindholm.

And the guy certainly isn't as good as Leddy, despite whatever advantages his being 4 years younger right now would seem to give him. His upward curve dried up real quick and scratching 30 points became his ceiling while his all-round game regularly features more breakdowns than desired.

I think you need to look into him a bit more.

Moving our 22 1st would not be wise unless it's for a considerable and highly affordable upgrade with term. I suspect that the NYI will keep this asset in their back pocket for the trade deadline.

Why does it have to be at a lower cost? Leddy was jettisoned for expansion draft purposes - mainly.

Ah, and now we get to the crux of the misconceptions. Hope @Richie Daggers Crime is also paying attention...

If we didn't move Leddy and then Ladd and then have Eberle picked, the ONLY thing we'd have been able to do - sans further trades - this offseason was MAYBE re-sign our three big RFAs. That's it. That's all the cap allowed.

And that was while we were thinking that Pelech was gonna be getting 5-6 MM per with his new contract. We may be wrong about that now...

Any improvement or retaining of our own UFAs meant Leddy was being moved, expansion draft or not. He was basically out the second Game 7 ended, expansion draft or not.

We HAD to get rid of several of our 5+ MM players in order to even entertain re-signing Cizikas and Palmieri (in addition to our RFAs), much less adding other players from the outside. And Leddy was one of, if not the, most marketable of any of our (non-core) 5+ MM players.

The way things have gone down, we're one of the league's biggest benficiaries of the expansion draft, because Seattle actually took one of those 5+ MM players off our hands and we didn't even have to pay them to do it.

So for anyone who thinks Leddy is still on this team right now if there's no expansion draft, you're doing yourself a grave disservice.

We needed cap space one way or another - I repeat, one way or another - and outside of the core of the team moving forward (for argument's sake, let's say that core is the 10 guys we protected), Leddy was one of the absolute most moveable.

Now, if we had no cap concerns AND there was no expansion draft, sure, I don't see why the team would have moved him.

Now that THAT is cleared up...

There are creative ways to jettison Hickey and Leo and one way would be taking a page out of Tampa's playbook and trade for Kesler.

We'd all like to think so. Will Lou find them?

We already mentioned things like moving them in a play to pick up Calvin de Haan.

But does Lou even want to move them and their contracts?

So, now what?

Well, Bridgeport just announced the (re-)signing of six players.:)

There's plenty of time until camp opens up.

I think we all agree that everything we've seen in Lou's time here means were not going into camp with Hickey, Aho, Bolduc, and Salo battling things out for a spot of the left defensive side.

Some other solution will be found.

For now, all eyes on Pelech.
 
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JKP

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I would think it would be easier to defend in a smaller rink
I play on both. Our pickup group plays 4 months in the summer game an Olympic sheet, and then we play 6 months in the winter on a normal sheet. Now, we're just a bunch of schleppers, but it's definitely an adjustment each fall/spring when we transition between the two.

I actually find it a little easier to defend on the wide sheet because you can push the attacking F's really wide and they have no decent shot/angle. I also find breakouts a little easier because there is lots of space up the middle or wide. Other little things I notice are reversing the puck behind the net to the weak side never seems to result in a decent breakout because our Ws are never near enough to the weak side boards and the opposing D can can pinch and retrieve it easier. There's also a lot more space to work with on the points as a D. One thing I struggle with is when we have the long change, as a Left D I get trapped out there a lot. Now it's pickup and we have no ref or icing, but it's still a looong way back to the bench.

When we go back to the small ice, it takes a while to adjust to the lack of space, everyone's bunched into the middle more. I find there's more scoring in our winter sessions on the small ice, and it's a much faster pace, you have less time to make decisions because there's less space to operate in.
 
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Chapin Landvogt

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Hunter7isles said:
Very fair on all points. Thoughts on my De Haan stop gap idea? Obvious heavy retention would be needed.

Well, we've discussed this in one of the recent editions of this thread...

The advantage to going after de Haan, I feel, is that Chicago would likely have to take back Hickey or Komarov and throw in a late draft pick.

At least, this would be so if their desire to shop him is genuine, because he has an undesirable price tag, a lengthy injury history, and he's not giving you more than 15 points nowadays. From what I've seen in recent years, he's slowed up a wee bit and it's hard to tell if he's purposely avoiding contact. I mean, he was never one to be too physical, but it looks like he's solving everything with stick play and positioning.

Does it have to do with surviving with his shoulder history?

But yes, he has one more year on his contract and he'd generally be a trade target, especially when considering the need on the left side D and the possibility of moving out Hickey or Komarov. Maybe.
 

Chapin Landvogt

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Richie Daggers Crime said:
Dismissing disagreement as disingenuous sure helps keep the narrative intact.

Ok, I'll bite... I sure wouldn't want anyone thinking I'm disingenuous.

What do we disagree on?

Which narrative of mine do you think I'm carrying on with that needs some rethinking?

Is there any issue we're in disagreeance about that I haven't given explanation to in one of the past five or so posts I've written today?
 
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Osakahaus

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May 28, 2021
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In the event that Lou is 100% fine with a rookie taking on that responsibility, then let it happen. You need to see if they're ready. if not, then I do suspect a trade in the works for someone. That's what I will leave it as

As for the rest of this offseason, keep the core and let's build off last year. Goal is playoffs first, then navigate through there
 

periferal

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Jul 5, 2007
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Maybe Lou is silent because he's embarrassed by his moves and doesn't want to share them with the public.


Or maybe he actually murdered Palmieri, Cizikas, Zajac, Sorokin, and Beauvillier, and left for Rio.


How can you prove otherwise...?
 
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