Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. III

[Uncle Duke]

And what does that have to do with reality?

I guess that would depend on what you think the reality is. Reality to me is that we lost a very good player and attempts by others to salve the wound by making it about relativism is a futile and disingenuous exercise.

 

[The Real JT]

Though i did not and would not have advocated signing him at his price, i actually think JT would have played and held up quite well under the Trotz system.

JT with a maturing Barzal, Pelech and Pulock would've been a solid formidable team short term. But it's still hard to argue that they would have eclipsed this team's performance.

The first problem if they had signed JT is that they would have even less cap room and might've lost one of last year's or this year's free agents.

The more obvious long term problem is that JT's contract will be an albatross in the next couple of years.

My apologies to all for still talking about this guy. I won't be doing it again.

Addition by subtraction.

 

[steveat]

I am not sure how much to look into it, but i just saw this vid on Youtube which was an MSG program with Shannon and Butchie.
"Is It Possible Islanders Don't Re-sign Mat Barzal? | New York Islanders"



At the end, they briefly discussed bringing in Buf from the Jets...which to me was a bit out in left field. Why would they say this or even bring it up unless there's smoke somewhere?

 

[Costigan77]

What about taking a flyer on Galchenyuk?

for one of the first times ever...i completely agree with you on this one

 

[Lek]

JT with a maturing Barzal, Pelech and Pulock would've been a solid formidable team short term. But it's still hard to argue that they would have eclipsed this team's performance.

The first problem if they had signed JT is that they would have even less cap room and might've lost one of last year's or this year's free agents.

The more obvious long term problem is that JT's contract will be an albatross in the next couple of years.

My apologies to all for still talking about this guy. I won't be doing it again.

Addition by subtraction.

No disagreeing with all of that, just saying, i think he would age just fine under the Trotz system as opposed to the one he plays now....then again i think a lot of players would do better in a in such a scenario as they age.

 

[Lek]

I am not sure how much to look into it, but i just saw this vid on Youtube which was an MSG program with Shannon and Butchie.
"Is It Possible Islanders Don't Re-sign Mat Barzal? | New York Islanders"



At the end, they briefly discussed bringing in Buf from the Jets...which to me was a bit out in left field. Why would they say this or even bring it up unless there's smoke somewhere?

No real idea...interesting thought....but more so.....why did not someone just add one more puck to the stack.....

 

[xECK29x]

At the end, they briefly discussed bringing in Buf from the Jets...which to me was a bit out in left field

He already let teams know he is no longer playing via his agent before FA started, I remember hearing that on 31 Thoughts.

 

[xECK29x]

Exactly. Half the fanbase wanted Leddy gone at the deadline not that long ago.
Toews was the golden child.
Somehow the roles are now reversed. Leddy did play better but it's not as though Toews regressed. I don't believe Lou traded Toews because of performance. He's a cap casualty and we have depth at the position plus the expansion draft.
Keeping Boychuk and paying Hickey is a mind boggling problem. Trading Toews doesn't make us a better team.

OK enough on this topic please, move it into the trade thread. This is the last warning for everyone I'm tired of this reading this thread being derailed.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Staple brings up some good points in his latest article in the Athletic re: Boychuk. Reading between the lines, and fairly obvious I guess, is that the longer it goes without a Boychuk trade, the less likely it happens, as teams are filling up cap space. If nothing happens in the next few days, gotta think it isnt happening at all.

"Outside of Ottawa, only the Devils and Red Wings have major cap space left. New Jersey has only five defensemen signed for 2020-21 with NHL experience, so the Devils could be a logical landing spot. They also have just nine forwards signed for next season, so if Komarov’s $3 million cap hit over the next two years is viable for another team, it could be them."

He also notes that Lou has most likely made it known to JB that he's the 6/7 Defenseman, and not going to have a regular role this year, which might make JB more willing to waive the NTC, if he could get more playing time elsewhere.

And not to bring up LTIR, and the arguments that it raises here at times, but its a real tough sell to put Boychuk on LTIR when you've offered him to 20+ teams as being healthy! So that's not an option. At least with Ladd's recurring knee issues, failing a physical could very well happen.

We may have to get used to the fact that our 7th defenseman will be a $6M cap hit this year. Thankfully Greene and Dobson should be less than $2M combined, so your 5/6/7 is costing you $7.xM against the cap.

 

[MJF]

Exactly. Half the fanbase wanted Leddy gone at the deadline not that long ago.
Toews was the golden child.
Somehow the roles are now reversed. Leddy did play better but it's not as though Toews regressed. I don't believe Lou traded Toews because of performance. He's a cap casualty and we have depth at the position plus the expansion draft.
Keeping Boychuk and paying Hickey is a mind boggling problem. Trading Toews doesn't make us a better team.

Half the people wanted Leddy gone because of the return we thought he would bring back. Now that it's clear he would bring back no players, only a late round draft pick, you don't trade Nick Leddy. He's worth more to the team on our blue line than the cap space he would clear.

You don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Chardo]

Yes, it is hyperbole and I certainly overstated the degree of enmity directed at Toews for effect, but come on, the kind commentary going on is just ridiculous. The bottom line is that we lost a very good player. That's what happened, and trying to now paint him as something other than that is absurd. He's gone. Let him be gone without trying to make it out to be something less than it was. Nonetheless, I apologize for having posted that as a response to you. I should have made it as a general comment not in response to any particular individual.

Hyperbole is the best thing ever.

 

[Chardo]

Yeah - I'd say that Winnipeg and Laine are heading for a divorce. That said I don't think we're Laine's next spouse. That's ok given what we'd have to give up and the cap space we don't have, but annoyingly I think that the Flyers, Blue Jackets, and Hurricanes are all good candidates to land him for multiple reasons...And of course Winnipeg will be looking to send him to the Eastern Conference if at all possible.

Maybe we can just be the abusive boyfriend for a year or two.

 

[periferal]

Vegas' owner sees NHL season starting Feb. 1

I mentioned this the other day- without fans it is going to be difficult for the NHL to operate.

This article is very serious. We're watching the other 3 big leagues (NBA, NFL, NBA) conduct their seasons without fans (and yes the NBA was in a bubble I know), but all 3 of them have TV contracts much more massive than the NHL. This means that it's more worth it to them to conduct a season with empty stadiums/arenas than it is for the NHL...Which is much more gate-driven (reliant on ticket sales).

This is a massive problem as long as fans are not allow in arenas. I think the minimum needed would be 50% in order for the NHL to justify a season, but remember...That's 50% across the board. Depending on how Covid goes each state could have unique restrictions on public gatherings and Canada could be different entirely.

We already know at best 2020-2021 is going to be a truncated season, but there's a real chance it doesn't happen at all if fans are not allowed back in by February.

This also begs the question...If there was no season would the 2020-2021 contracts for all players toll into 2021-2022 meaning that if you have 3 years left on your current deal that it won't go down to 2 years if thre's no season this year?

Point is I think given how things are looking this year is going to be mangled at best and therefore if it happens it might be the year to just keep things status quo and get our cap somewhat back in order. In other words don't sell off top picks/prospects/assets to marginally improve the team now and instead let things kind of tread water as we get closer to contracts ending and being able to dump them closer to that time.

 

[aronjudge11]

Canada is going to continue with border closure. They wouldn't even let baseball players in this summer. Even a vaccine by March is to late. If they play at all it will likely be how baseball did it this year, a third of season, no fans, everyone in the states.

 

[IslesNorway]

Staple brings up some good points in his latest article in the Athletic re: Boychuk. Reading between the lines, and fairly obvious I guess, is that the longer it goes without a Boychuk trade, the less likely it happens, as teams are filling up cap space. If nothing happens in the next few days, gotta think it isnt happening at all.

"Outside of Ottawa, only the Devils and Red Wings have major cap space left. New Jersey has only five defensemen signed for 2020-21 with NHL experience, so the Devils could be a logical landing spot. They also have just nine forwards signed for next season, so if Komarov’s $3 million cap hit over the next two years is viable for another team, it could be them."

He also notes that Lou has most likely made it known to JB that he's the 6/7 Defenseman, and not going to have a regular role this year, which might make JB more willing to waive the NTC, if he could get more playing time elsewhere.

And not to bring up LTIR, and the arguments that it raises here at times, but its a real tough sell to put Boychuk on LTIR when you've offered him to 20+ teams as being healthy! So that's not an option. At least with Ladd's recurring knee issues, failing a physical could very well happen.

We may have to get used to the fact that our 7th defenseman will be a $6M cap hit this year. Thankfully Greene and Dobson should be less than $2M combined, so your 5/6/7 is costing you $7.xM against the cap.

Agree with all of that but it still does not solve the simple problem that they still need to shed $5-6 million just to resign Barzal and Pulock. There will be no Greene or Martin or maybe even Schneider until that is resolved.
If they can't trade JB then who?

 

[periferal]

I used to be all about rebuilds- then 2009 came along. We literally had the opportunity to pick Hedman, didn’t, and were universally praised for the pick we did make. Fast forward to today- and had Tavares stayed w/us I honestly think we’d be bemoaning his salary, declining speed and how much more impactful Hedman is.

To make rebuilds even more perilous- I sincerely doubt Hedman would have gotten to where he is under a Snow/Capuano/Weight NYI regime as defensemen are historically much harder to develop. Any early struggles would have also been amplified by disgruntled NYI fans (me included!) who would have been irate that we didn’t take Tavares. He probably wouldn’t even still be here either. Hedman thrived in TB because the quality of the organization over many years gave him a chance to do so.

So much more important IMHO to have good people doing a good job year-after-year instilling a winning culture/mentality than merely collecting toys at the Draft- which anybody can do. Big reason why I’ve greeted the Kakko/Lafreniere additions in MSG mostly with a shrug. Congratulations, you know how to read the Central Scouting Rankings. Let’s see you make something of it (maybe they will BTW as 2020 NYR org. > 2009 NYI org.- but the work ain’t even half done)...

1. So Hedman wouldn't be the player he is today "under a Snow/Capuano/Weight NYI regime..."
2. But he is that All-Star player because he plays for an elite organization who run things correctly...
3. Something the Isles now do...
4. But you're against total rebuilds because of...Bad management...? They take too long...? Too much suffering...?
5. Yet pretty much every team that's won the Cup in the past 25 years had at least 1-2 players (if not an entire core of players) they drafted themselves with a high pick(s)...
6. Which was only obtained by being bad for a few seasons...
7. So if the Isles are able to win a Cup (not come close) in the next 5 years they will have severely bucked a trend...
8. But not having a good prospect pool of young NHL talent combined with a core of aging players will lead you to a rebuild regardless if you want one or not...

*This isn't an argument for a rebuild. It's an argument for logic.

 

[xECK29x]

Bracco to the Canes, he should get some NHL ice time there and do well. Was hoping he would have been brought on as scoring depth.

 

[MJF]

Bracco to the Canes, he should get some NHL ice time there and do well. Was hoping he would have been brought on as scoring depth.

I’m disappointed we didn’t sign him.

 

[periferal]

I am not sure how much to look into it, but i just saw this vid on Youtube which was an MSG program with Shannon and Butchie.
"Is It Possible Islanders Don't Re-sign Mat Barzal? | New York Islanders"



At the end, they briefly discussed bringing in Buf from the Jets...which to me was a bit out in left field. Why would they say this or even bring it up unless there's smoke somewhere?

Oh typical click-bait BS that we see across all media outlets these days. They just talk about what would happen if Barzal got an offer sheet and the Isles didn't match. They don't suggest for a second they should let Barzal go, that they thought it would happen, or that it would be a good idea.

 

[periferal]

Here's an interesting question...

In order to obtain his rights, the Isles qualified Barzal as an RFA for basically 1,000,000 for 2020-2021. Obviously he's worth a heck of a lot more and let's just say that he would sign for 7M/year, but not less.

But what would happen if if after signing Pulock and making some other moves the Isles only have 3M in cap space when the season starts. They tell Barzal he can have all of it, but they're not prepared to trade 1st round picks or Wahlstrom, Dobson, etc to open up more (and of course maybe given all moves across the NHL by then maybe there aren't even opportunities to do that).

Of course I don't see Barzal's agents allowing him to accept such a deal so that would mean he just wouldn't play in 2020-2021? And would his rights toll into 2021-2022 or would he still become a UFA at age 27 regardless?

I ask this specifically with Barzal, but more philosophically overall because the Isles are in bad shape, but I legit don't know how the Lightning are going to resign their RFAs for market value starting with Sergachev.

 

[Uncle Duke]

1. So Hedman wouldn't be the player he is today "under a Snow/Capuano/Weight NYI regime..."
2. But he is that All-Star player because he plays for an elite organization who run things correctly...
3. Something the Isles now do...
4. But you're against total rebuilds because of...Bad management...? They take too long...? Too much suffering...?
5. Yet pretty much every team that's won the Cup in the past 25 years had at least 1-2 players (if not an entire core of players) they drafted themselves with a high pick(s)...
6. Which was only obtained by being bad for a few seasons...
7. So if the Isles are able to win a Cup (not come close) in the next 5 years they will have severely bucked a trend...
8. But not having a good prospect pool of young NHL talent combined with a core of aging players will lead you to a rebuild regardless if you want one or not...

*This isn't an argument for a rebuild. It's an argument for logic.

Outstanding.




*Not a sarcastic clap emoji.

 

[boredmale]

Here's an interesting question...

In order to obtain his rights, the Isles qualified Barzal as an RFA for basically 1,000,000 for 2020-2021. Obviously he's worth a heck of a lot more and let's just say that he would sign for 7M/year, but not less.

But what would happen if if after signing Pulock and making some other moves the Isles only have 3M in cap space when the season starts. They tell Barzal he can have all of it, but they're not prepared to trade 1st round picks or Wahlstrom, Dobson, etc to open up more (and of course maybe given all moves across the NHL by then maybe there aren't even opportunities to do that).

Of course I don't see Barzal's agents allowing him to accept such a deal so that would mean he just wouldn't play in 2020-2021? And would his rights toll into 2021-2022 or would he still become a UFA at age 27 regardless?

I ask this specifically with Barzal, but more philosophically overall because the Isles are in bad shape, but I legit don't know how the Lightning are going to resign their RFAs for market value starting with Sergachev.

My 2 cents with Barzal, is get him to sign a 1 year deal with a high signing bonus low actual salary. If you get him to sign say something like 5M bonus, 1M salary, that is roughly 5.5Mish for playing 40-50 games

 

[IslesNorway]

Here's an interesting question...

In order to obtain his rights, the Isles qualified Barzal as an RFA for basically 1,000,000 for 2020-2021. Obviously he's worth a heck of a lot more and let's just say that he would sign for 7M/year, but not less.

But what would happen if if after signing Pulock and making some other moves the Isles only have 3M in cap space when the season starts. They tell Barzal he can have all of it, but they're not prepared to trade 1st round picks or Wahlstrom, Dobson, etc to open up more (and of course maybe given all moves across the NHL by then maybe there aren't even opportunities to do that).

Of course I don't see Barzal's agents allowing him to accept such a deal so that would mean he just wouldn't play in 2020-2021? And would his rights toll into 2021-2022 or would he still become a UFA at age 27 regardless?

I ask this specifically with Barzal, but more philosophically overall because the Isles are in bad shape, but I legit don't know how the Lightning are going to resign their RFAs for market value starting with Sergachev.

I guess that would be last resort but it's within the rules no doubt. Perhaps the plan is just to roll with whatever Pulock is awarded too.

 

[Newsworthy]

Reports are Hoffman settling for one year deal. Would probably be similar to Hall.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Agree with all of that but it still does not solve the simple problem that they still need to shed $5-6 million just to resign Barzal and Pulock. There will be no Greene or Martin or maybe even Schneider until that is resolved.
If they can't trade JB then who?

That's the million dollar question - if they cant move JB, then possibly Komorov? Do they try to move Clutter or even Cizikas? Looking through the roster, there's not a lot of realistic options. Ive heard people say, trade Boychuk for Palmieri, but that doesnt free much cap at all.

Schneider, Im not too concerned about, since either he or Sorokin would be in the AHL so there's some cap savings there? And end of the day, they could live without Green and Martin. Play Komorov on the 4th line, let the kids play on the 3rd. Assuming Barzal and Pulock get signed, you've got 12 F (plus Wahlstrom, Bellows, Koivula, etc), and 7 D (plus Aho) and 2 G under contract, so you go into the season with what you have.

Do we want Boychuk/Hickey/Aho as 6/7/8? No, but at some point, all options are exhausted.