Speculation: Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2018-19 - Part III

[PK Cronin]

Continue the talk of trades and rumors here, as we hit the 1,000 post limit.

Previous thread: Speculation: - Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2018-19 - Part II

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[periferal]

The difference between trading Tavares and not taking a risk on him walking about not trading Eberle and letting him walk on purpose is quite different as well. Tavares flipped the script on this organization and didn't give the two weeks notice we would give our jobs.

Think about it.

Isles went all in on the JT front, they did not even truly entertain trade offers for him. While they could have gotten a ton for him in a trade, they were still planning to resign Tavares and have him continue to be the captain here. When he decided not to sign Isles management got nothing in return for him, but more importantly they were not planning for a future without Tavares. That was the main issue.

Exactly right...And because of that no matter how much anyone wants to hate Tavares they should really hate Ledecky/Malkin/snow for not protecting the franchise. If all of us could go back 1 year all of us would tell Tavares, "If you don't sign by the deadline you're being traded."

That's what they shouldn't have done. Not sure why they had to learn that lesson the hard way when it was sooooo obvious that when a player is telling you how much they want to resign...AND AREN'T RESIGNING...There isn't a bigger red flag than that.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Paging @Strummergas

 

[YearlyLottery]

Exactly right...And because of that no matter how much anyone wants to hate Tavares they should really hate Ledecky/Malkin/snow for not protecting the franchise. If all of us could go back 1 year all of us would tell Tavares, "If you don't sign by the deadline you're being traded."

That's what they shouldn't have done. Not sure why they had to learn that lesson the hard way when it was sooooo obvious that when a player is telling you how much they want to resign...AND AREN'T RESIGNING...There isn't a bigger red flag than that.

Honestly though? I am sure Tavares has changed the game for how teams will handle this from now on. I can see why the NYI gave him the benefit of the doubt, from what it looks like he completely screwed them. I mean if this was WWE he just turned on his tag team partner of 8 years (longer? idk).

You think you would know a guy after he has played for you for so long. I can see the direction they were going, but I can also see why the should've traded him. It is hard for any of us to truly know what was being said behind closed doors, hopefully one day there is a book on that decision by someone in Isles management.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

Exactly right...And because of that no matter how much anyone wants to hate Tavares they should really hate Ledecky/Malkin/snow for not protecting the franchise. If all of us could go back 1 year all of us would tell Tavares, "If you don't sign by the deadline you're being traded."

That's what they shouldn't have done. Not sure why they had to learn that lesson the hard way when it was sooooo obvious that when a player is telling you how much they want to resign...AND AREN'T RESIGNING...There isn't a bigger red flag than that.

Yes, ownership made a big mistake, but they 100% corrected and made up for their mistake. They fired garth snow and doug weight. They spent money and got a world class GM / Prez in lou, in which they gave total control to run the show. They spent money to get trotz, and got a world class coach with instant Stanley cup street cred. They also spent money in the AHL signing vets to help develop the youth.

We all make mistakes, but it's how you make up for those mistakes. That's what really matters.


We have 3 UFA situations right now with Lee / Nelson / Eberle, let's see what new management does with them.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

hopefully one day there is a book on that decision by someone in Isles management.

.....I hear garth snow is an excellent writer. After all, he does have a masters degree

 

[danteipp]

Yes, ownership made a big mistake, but they 100% corrected and made up for their mistake. They fired garth snow and doug weight. They spent money and got a world class GM / Prez in lou, in which they gave total control to run the show. They spent money to get trotz, and got a world class coach with instant Stanley cup street cred. They also spent money in the AHL signing vets to help develop the youth.

We all make mistakes, but it's how you make up for those mistakes. That's what really matters.


We have 3 UFA situations right now with Lee / Nelson / Eberle, let's see what new management does with them.

Well said. Mistakes were definitely made in the past, however, it appears that the Isles are headed in the right direction now and we can (finally) be more optimistic about the future.

With respect to the three (3) free agents, if I could envision the best-case scenario (for the Isles as a team), it would be to:

- Sign Lee to a six-year deal at an AAV of $6-6.5 million. Can he get more as a UFA? Probably. But it puts him above players like Neal, Guentzel, Gourde, T. Wilson, etc. but behind E. Kane. It is also a year longer than JVR but a bit less AAV. Hopefully that gets it done and Lee wants to stay here.

- Unless the Isles can find a true 2c with some term (RoR, Schenn, etc.), or trade for and convince Duchene to sign an extension immediately, they need to hold onto Nelson. Especially if the Isles are in the 1-3 seeds in the Metro. Keep Brock, get some playoff experience for the team and kids, then try to upgrade in the off season. If they strike out, at least they can probably go back to Nelson.

- Look to trade Eberle. Then package those assets up, along with maybe the Calgary second rounder and/or some B prospects and try to add a better top-six forward. Again, it would be great if that player had at least another year on their contract. But if Lou thinks he can get a Panarin or Stone, in what is being projected as a buyer's market without giving up the farm (Eberle and the second isn't too bad), then sell them on the location, I would be fine with that.

- Shop Hickey. If someone wants to overpay a bit, in order to add a cheap vet for depth, the Isles could also retain some money to get back a better return. It would clear a contract., some salary going forward, free up a spot for Pelech or maybe Aho on defense and probably bring back an asset. Obviously they don't have to give Hickey away, there should be a market in the off season or next year, but it is worth exploring.

Those are just my quick thoughts. I am interested to see what Lou will ultimately do. Hopefully he can keep the team competitive now AND add for the future.

 

[SI]

Honestly though? I am sure Tavares has changed the game for how teams will handle this from now on. I can see why the NYI gave him the benefit of the doubt, from what it looks like he completely screwed them. I mean if this was WWE he just turned on his tag team partner of 8 years (longer? idk).

You think you would know a guy after he has played for you for so long. I can see the direction they were going, but I can also see why the should've traded him. It is hard for any of us to truly know what was being said behind closed doors, hopefully one day there is a book on that decision by someone in Isles management.

We will see what happens In Ottawa and Columbus.

Ottawa will most likely trade Duchene,but I wonder about Stone?

And how about Columbus - 1st place -I cannot see them trading Panarin right now

 

[Doshell Propivo]

We will see what happens In Ottawa and Columbus.

Ottawa will most likely trade Duchene,but I wonder about Stone?

And how about Columbus - 1st place -I cannot see them trading Panarin right now

You mean they are not going to give Panarin an artificial deadline to sign or else???

 

[SI]

Well said. Mistakes were definitely made in the past, however, it appears that the Isles are headed in the right direction now and we can (finally) be more optimistic about the future.

With respect to the three (3) free agents, if I could envision the best-case scenario (for the Isles as a team), it would be to:

- Sign Lee to a six-year deal at an AAV of $6-6.5 million. Can he get more as a UFA? Probably. But it puts him above players like Neal, Guentzel, Gourde, T. Wilson, etc. but behind E. Kane. It is also a year longer than JVR but a bit less AAV. Hopefully that gets it done and Lee wants to stay here.

- Unless the Isles can find a true 2c with some term (RoR, Schenn, etc.), or trade for and convince Duchene to sign an extension immediately, they need to hold onto Nelson. Especially if the Isles are in the 1-3 seeds in the Metro. Keep Brock, get some playoff experience for the team and kids, then try to upgrade in the off season. If they strike out, at least they can probably go back to Nelson.

- Look to trade Eberle. Then package those assets up, along with maybe the Calgary second rounder and/or some B prospects and try to add a better top-six forward. Again, it would be great if that player had at least another year on their contract. But if Lou thinks he can get a Panarin or Stone, in what is being projected as a buyer's market without giving up the farm (Eberle and the second isn't too bad), then sell them on the location, I would be fine with that.

- Shop Hickey. If someone wants to overpay a bit, in order to add a cheap vet for depth, the Isles could also retain some money to get back a better return. It would clear a contract., some salary going forward, free up a spot for Pelech or maybe Aho on defense and probably bring back an asset. Obviously they don't have to give Hickey away, there should be a market in the off season or next year, but it is worth exploring.

Those are just my quick thoughts. I am interested to see what Lou will ultimately do. Hopefully he can keep the team competitive now AND add for the future.

If Florida continues to drop - I love the idea of sending Eberle and then flipping those pieces and adding for someone like Hoffman.

 

[BMOK33]

Honestly though? I am sure Tavares has changed the game for how teams will handle this from now on. I can see why the NYI gave him the benefit of the doubt, from what it looks like he completely screwed them. I mean if this was WWE he just turned on his tag team partner of 8 years (longer? idk).

You think you would know a guy after he has played for you for so long. I can see the direction they were going, but I can also see why the should've traded him. It is hard for any of us to truly know what was being said behind closed doors, hopefully one day there is a book on that decision by someone in Isles management.

Tavares has pretty much had an impact across more than hockey. There was an MLB reporter saying more players than ever this winter visited with teams during the FA process. He was convinced the Tavares fiasco has rubbed off on agents in baseball and that is why that occurred. Remember that many here in June argued that was a possible dangerous end result of what was going on. It could encourage other players to start taking FA tours

 

[CodeE]

Tavares has pretty much had an impact across more than hockey. There was an MLB reporter saying more players than ever this winter visited with teams during the FA process. He was convinced the Tavares fiasco has rubbed off on agents in baseball and that is why that occurred. Remember that many here in June argued that was a possible dangerous end result of what was going on. It could encourage other players to start taking FA tours

MLB free agency is weird though.

The top players in the league just sit around waiting for some team to over-over-over-overpay them. Players like Tavares sign hours into the process. Bryce Harper & Manny Machado are still waiting around hoping some team offers up $300M.

 

[benedictTavares]

MLB also has compensation picks. Which does not really affect superstars like Harper etc but the B+ type free agents like AJ Pollock.

Would be like getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick from Toronto for losing Tavares.

 

[iggy]

Trade for Panarin. Let him come here and be apart of this new Islanders atmosphere . Well seasoned GM. Stanley Cup winning coach that has a system that actually works . This would be the best way to get him to possibly sign an extension . That and a nice big check.

 

[seafoam]

Friedman’s 31 Thoughts said the asking price for Zuccarello would probably be a 2nd and a prospect. That seems pretty cheap, always thought he was better than Eberle for example..

 

[seafoam]

Trade for Panarin. Let him come here and be apart of this new Islanders atmosphere . Well seasoned GM. Stanley Cup winning coach that has a system that actually works . This would be the best way to get him to possibly sign an extension . That and a nice big check.

Still think he’d be more interested in Chicago or NYR.

 

[CodeE]

Friedman’s 31 Thoughts said the asking price for Zuccarello would probably be a 2nd and a prospect. That seems pretty cheap, always thought he was better than Eberle for example..

The biggest fear I have about Eberle's value is the market being too oversaturated with wingers. Especially UFA wingers on non-playoff teams. More available wingers = more options = buyer's market.

 

[YoureMyBoyLou]

If Florida continues to drop - I love the idea of sending Eberle and then flipping those pieces and adding for someone like Hoffman.

I don't see Florida trading for a UFA if they are out of the playoff hunt. They will be seller, not buyers.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Friedman’s 31 Thoughts said the asking price for Zuccarello would probably be a 2nd and a prospect. That seems pretty cheap, always thought he was better than Eberle for example..

Really?

 

[xECK29x]

It's a buyers market, I think prices this year will be pretty low.

 

[MatthewBarnabysTears]

IMO, folks are way too determined to trade Eberle. If we can get a first or a similar overpay, then absolutely. But that looks unlikely. At some point, the value of Eberle as a de-facto "rental" piece that helps us make the playoffs or potentially win a round is worth a lot more than what we'd get back.

I think the same is true with people who are determined that we won't be buyers. Should we trade a first or top prospect for a rental? Absolutely not. But every year, middle six forward rentals get traded for negligible assets. There's no reason we can't add.

 

[Phil120362]

Adding is fine,but the cost has to be reasonable,these big name guys,most of them arent worth it.Especially with a foreseeable lockout looming.

 

[Jester9881]

Here's how I look at the Tavares fiasco...

Everyone takes some blame, but looking from the bottom up...
1. He didn't break any rules, but he handled it poorly and put the team in a bad position.
2. Snow failed by not building a team around him when he had the chance. Both in players and management.
3. Ownership should have cleaned house two to three years earlier than they ultimately did

In the end, if losing Tavares was the cost of finally getting this team secured under solid ownership with a solid GM and coaching staff? That's a win all day long for this franchise. Seriously, this team hasn't had that tri-fecta since the early 80's.

 

[beach]

IMO, folks are way too determined to trade Eberle. If we can get a first or a similar overpay, then absolutely. But that looks unlikely. At some point, the value of Eberle as a de-facto "rental" piece that helps us make the playoffs or potentially win a round is worth a lot more than what we'd get back.

I think the same is true with people who are determined that we won't be buyers. Should we trade a first or top prospect for a rental? Absolutely not. But every year, middle six forward rentals get traded for negligible assets. There's no reason we can't add.

I think Trotz likes Ebs. Seems to compliment him a lot. I'll bet they re-sign him.

 

[beach]

Friedman’s 31 Thoughts said the asking price for Zuccarello would probably be a 2nd and a prospect. That seems pretty cheap, always thought he was better than Eberle for example..

Don't agree