Proposal: Rumors & Proposals Thread: Will Holland Hit the Ground Running, or With a Thud?

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McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
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Sure that’s why Matt Benning looked like a NHL dman next to Russell and completely lost next to Nurse. As a defenceman, I would hate playing with Nurse who is consistently out of position, reading the play wrong, and giving the puck away in zone, unable to clear. Say what you want about Russell, but the guy can alleviate the in zone pressure. Either by the off the glass and out, or by tipping the puck out of play on a shot.

So do we forget about chemistry ? How would Draisaitl look on the 2nd line ? Maybe because Russell doesn't go deep in the offensive zone so there no need to cover . When A D rushes the puck up the ice you need a good defence man to be able to cover for them . Benning is not good enough for that .
 

Raab

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Oct 6, 2007
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Narrowing zone exits down to passing doesn't really make sense. The goal is to get it out with control and Nurse is significantly better at it.

And it's used to discredit Russell for good reason. He's a high volume, horrible controlled exit defenseman.

Sometimes the goal is just to get it out, to relieve pressure and maybe get a defensive pairing change.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
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He missed TC and had a off year I give him that.

But if you look back at his stats from previous years he tends to disappear in the playoffs.

2016-2018 ( 2 goals in 13 playoff games) isn't gonna cut it. Especially for Edm a team that desperately need finishers

Well...his scoring average in the playoffs is 0.55 PPG. I dont think its accurate to suggest thats evidence that he disappears in the playoffs.
 

McDNicks17

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Sure that’s why Matt Benning looked like a NHL dman next to Russell and completely lost next to Nurse. As a defenceman, I would hate playing with Nurse who is consistently out of position, reading the play wrong, and giving the puck away in zone, unable to clear. Say what you want about Russell, but the guy can alleviate the in zone pressure. Either by the off the glass and out, or by tipping the puck out of play on a shot.

Benning played 21 minutes of 5v5 with Russell last season...
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
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Benning played 21 minutes of 5v5 with Russell last season...

And Nurse/Benning only played 140 minutes, or less than 10% of Nurse's total 5v5 icetime.

These samples are nothing. I said it a week or so ago, but chances are Raab is basing his opinions on these pairings working or failing on one play that he happens to remember.
 
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Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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Sometimes the goal is just to get it out, to relieve pressure and maybe get a defensive pairing change.
Maybe if Russell could make a pass or skate it out he wouldn’t need to clear the zone off the glass to get a change so often. There’s a reason his line always gets crushed in possession.

Nurse is better at exiting the zone.
 

Raab

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Getting warmer...



I did! it helped that he was paired with a vastly superior D man. We've seen what happens without that cover.



Some individuals are a bigger part of the problem than others.



What happens in those minutes is kinda important. When Russell is on the ice, the Oilers get consistently outshot, outchanced and frequently outscored. You can't just brush that off.

The Oilers don’t get outscored 5 on 5 when Russell’s on the ice though. He has a positive +/-. He also gets 14 seconds of PP time a game, so doesn’t get the gravy points like some of our other dman. To put this in perspective Kris Russell plays 20 minutes a night taking the toughest assignments. While our other dmen are getting some easier competition, zone starts, and pp time. O and did I mention he does this all on his offside because we have no good RHD outside of Larsson? The guy is a very good dman, and I’d hazard to guess most of the guys who don’t like him have never played defence before.
 
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The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
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If Sekera comes back and can play top 4 minutes next season, i reckon this is a playoff team even with minimal roster changes (assuming we get league average goaltending anyway).

Assuming Holland addresses the winger issue, I’d agree.

Koskinen is definitely not going to give us a performance like Talbot’s first couple years, but he’s fine as like a 1B, and whoever we bring in to push him should be a significant upgrade over Gustavsson from our 103 point team.

The defence is still adequate. It was pretty good in 16/17, and there has been some regression, but not so much that it’s going to cost you games.

The big question is are we going to have like 6 top 6 forwards like in 16/17, or 3 like last year.
 

Raab

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Benning played 21 minutes of 5v5 with Russell last season...

How about Caleb Jones? He also had to babysit Nurse as Nurse was consistently setting his partner up to look lost because of a bad giveaway or read.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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Assuming Holland addresses the winger issue, I’d agree.

Koskinen is definitely not going to give us a performance like Talbot’s first couple years, but he’s fine as like a 1B, and whoever we bring in to push him should be a significant upgrade over Gustavsson from our 103 point team.

The defence is still adequate. It was pretty good in 16/17, and there has been some regression, but not so much that it’s going to cost you games.

The big question is are we going to have like 6 top 6 forwards like in 16/17, or 3 like last year.
The Oilers need elite level goaltending to get this roster into the playoffs. It's still as deep as a puddle.

And the defense is NOT adequate.
 

McDNicks17

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The Oilers don’t get outscored 5 on 5 when Russell’s on the ice though. He has a positive +/-. He also gets 14 seconds of PP time a game, so doesn’t get the gravy points like some of our other dman. To put this in perspective Kris Russell plays 20 minutes a night taking the toughest assignments. While our other dmen are getting some easier competition, zone starts, and pp time. O and did I mention he does this all on his offside because we have no good RHD outside of Larsson? The guy is a very good dman, and I’d hazard to guess most of the guys who don’t like him have never played defence before.

Klefbom, Larsson and Nurse had higher QoC last season while playing 1-2 minutes more even strength minutes per night.
 

Raab

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Jones played 14 minutes of 5v5 with Nurse...

How about Russell... who I was talking about. There’s a reason he gets paired with the rookies. And Klefbom and Nurse have higher QOC because they play more with Mcdavid and get easier zone starts.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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It is. People need to stop blaming the defense for the forwards being s***. No defense would look good behind our forwards.
The forwards are shit.

The defense is shit.

The goaltending is shit.

2 100 point players and the Oilers weren't even close to a playoff spot. How many times did we tell ourselves last year that the team would be fine when the defense gets healthy? Because it didn't get any better. Klefbom hasn't regained the form he had two years ago. Larsson has fallen off a cliff. Sekera has had to overcome 2 major injures in the past two years and doesn't look close to the player he was pre-injury. Nurse is probably the only defenseman that's gotten better in the last two years.

Oh, and Russell is still as one-dimensional as ever.

Make no mistake the forwards suck but this defense couldn't move the puck if their lives depended on it.
 

BoldNewLettuce

Esquire
Dec 21, 2008
28,125
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Re; Russell

Imo the cap can be spent on the wings....but if there are no options there then hes a good depth guy.

In an ideal healthy d group id prefer gravel split with jones. But Russell is a better option to fill in when injuries hit.
 

syz

[1, 5, 6, 14]
Jul 13, 2007
28,849
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It is. People need to stop blaming the defense for the forwards being s***. No defense would look good behind our forwards.

Few forwards would look good with Oilers defensemen failing to get them the puck or contribute in the offensive zone.
Few defensemen would look good in front of the Oilers pathetic goaltending.
Few goaltenders would look good behind the Oilers defense and forwards in the defensive zone.

No need for false dichotomies. Fact is that every position on this roster needs to be improved.
 

McDNicks17

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How about Russell... who I was talking about. There’s a reason he gets paired with the rookies. And Klefbom and Nurse have higher QOC because they play more with Mcdavid and get easier zone starts.

It's even worse if you're referring to Russell and Jones who played a whopping 10:51 of 5v5 together.

As for Russell being paired with rookies, he played ~92% of his 5v5 icetime last season with Nurse, Klefbom, Sekera and Larsson.
 
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Raab

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It's even worse if you're referring to Russell and Jones who played a whopping 10:51 of 5v5 together.

As for Russell being paired with rookies, he played ~92% of his 5v5 icetime last season with Nurse, Klefbom and Larsson.

Yes, and what percentage of that was Nurse? It always amazes me that Nurses d partners look like crap, and everyone thinks that they’re the problem. Despite Nurse being the common denominator.
 

McJadeddog

Registered User
Sep 25, 2003
20,186
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Apologies if this was already being discussed in another thread I couldn't find it.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-joakim-nygard-choosing-between-to-calgary-flames-edmonton-oilers-1.1310284

Am I the only who had never heard of this guy before? His stats are certainly not very impressive at all. 3rd on his team in scoring this year and 4th last year. He is 26, so is essentially a finished product at this point. In a league where a 17 year old Petterson scored 56 points last year (1st in the league), a 24/25 year old Nygard scored 34 points (17th in league). Seems like a guy who would be a 13th forward at best.
 

McDNicks17

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Yes, and what percentage of that was Nurse? It always amazes me that Nurses d partners look like crap, and everyone thinks that they’re the problem. Despite Nurse being the common denominator.

Russell played 82% of his icetime with Nurse.

Nurse is better in almost every metric without Russell than with him.
 

oXo Cube

Power Play Merchant
Nov 4, 2008
10,785
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In your closet
Don't know why you guys are arguing with Raab when he has proven to not be objective on this debate since before Nurse was even drafted.

Guess he's at least given up on trying to argue for all the reasons why Rasmus Ristolainen is superior to Nurse in every way.
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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The Oilers don’t get outscored 5 on 5 when Russell’s on the ice though. He has a positive +/-. He also gets 14 seconds of PP time a game, so doesn’t get the gravy points like some of our other dman. To put this in perspective Kris Russell plays 20 minutes a night taking the toughest assignments. While our other dmen are getting some easier competition, zone starts, and pp time. O and did I mention he does this all on his offside because we have no good RHD outside of Larsson? The guy is a very good dman, and I’d hazard to guess most of the guys who don’t like him have never played defence before.
I played defense growing up, I also knew how to execute a breakout without off the glass and out.
 
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