Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Spector: Multi-Year Kassian Extension Prior to Trade Deadline?

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Can you post where you get that data? I'd be interested to take a look at that stuff.

To be fair, wingers have very little responsibility regarding defensive zone acumen, no?

They do? Hmm, that’s news to me.

 

[duul]

They do? Hmm, that’s news to me.

Well in Europe they employ the left-wing lock, so the LW is actually the most important defensive forward, but for most teams, their positioning in their own zone is not THAT important. Perhaps his entire line is just pushing hard for offence considering he is their best chance at scoring and they've been struggling so mightily to do so lately.

 

[Cloned]

Can you post where you get that data? I'd be interested to take a look at that stuff.

To be fair, wingers have very little responsibility regarding defensive zone acumen, no?

edit: He's also playing with Dvorak and Garland, who I can't imagine are very good defensively at all either, but I might be wrong.

GDB Game Notes: Digging into Taylor Hall’s impact in Arizona

 

[duul]

GDB Game Notes: Digging into Taylor Hall’s impact in Arizona

Interesting data. I think it would be disingenuous to make the claim that Hall has single-handedly torpedo'd the Coyotes defence, lol. The author says it's a possibility, but the injury to Kuemper surely explains this well enough.

 

[Cloned]

Interesting data. I think it would be disingenuous to make the claim that Hall has single-handedly torpedo'd the Coyotes defence, lol. The author says it's a possibility, but the injury to Kuemper surely explains this well enough.

It’s not even just goals against though, it’s also high danger scoring chances against.

 

[duul]

It’s not even just goals against though, it’s also high danger scoring chances against.

It's such a tiny sample size. Does he really fare worse than other top wingers in the league? Ovechkin, Kane, Panarin, etc? The elite wingers in the game go for offence and rely on their linemates to key in defensively. Just from what I've 'noticed'. Perhaps there is data to back this up or refute it.

Either way, I can't imagine a scenario in which it would be a bad idea to bring in an elite player like Hall long-term.

edit: Kessel is another high scoring winger who has seemingly 'struggled' since going to Arizona. Perhaps their lack of star power over the years has forced them to adapt to a different system. I think we can agree on this. Throwing high end offensive players into a regimented defensive system is not ideal, and could take time to tinker with.

 

[rickysusedsht]

Like I said before if mcd says sign big #44 you sign him. Mcd has been through alot here and if he wants kass to be part of his core ,holland has to get it done. According to the panel a deal is close. More than happy if zack stays

 

[Ck1]

My concern with putting Neal on the third line is that he starts pouting again like he did last year on the Flames. I think it's Top 6 or bust for him here.

I think Neal would be ok playing third line while getting some top 6 minutes when needed and pp Time

 

[Aerchon]

GDB Game Notes: Digging into Taylor Hall’s impact in Arizona

Interesting data. I think it would be disingenuous to make the claim that Hall has single-handedly torpedo'd the Coyotes defence, lol. The author says it's a possibility, but the injury to Kuemper surely explains this well enough.

While this article isn't ripe with rock solid statistical analysis it certainly reinforces what many Devils and Oilers fans, myself included, have noticed throughout his career.

In that game today alone Hall got a goal but was minus 5 and a big part of why the Coyotes lost.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Well in Europe they employ the left-wing lock, so the LW is actually the most important defensive forward, but for most teams, their positioning in their own zone is not THAT important. Perhaps his entire line is just pushing hard for offence considering he is their best chance at scoring and they've been struggling so mightily to do so lately.

The LW lock is a type of neutral zone trap. Not a defensive zone strategy. Every players positioning is critical in the defensive zone esp as it’s F1, F2 and F3 back not LW RW C.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

It's such a tiny sample size. Does he really fare worse than other top wingers in the league? Ovechkin, Kane, Panarin, etc? The elite wingers in the game go for offence and rely on their linemates to key in defensively. Just from what I've 'noticed'. Perhaps there is data to back this up or refute it.

Either way, I can't imagine a scenario in which it would be a bad idea to bring in an elite player like Hall long-term.

edit: Kessel is another high scoring winger who has seemingly 'struggled' since going to Arizona. Perhaps their lack of star power over the years has forced them to adapt to a different system. I think we can agree on this. Throwing high end offensive players into a regimented defensive system is not ideal, and could take time to tinker with.

...yes?

 

[belair]

It’s not even just goals against though, it’s also high danger scoring chances against.

I've mentioned it before. IMO there are limited roles where a high end offensive player can be given the leash to create the type of offense they normally do. More risks will ultimately result in greater opportunity to produce.

This should be limited to your top line.

If you begin employing these types of players with lesser support, you minimize the likelihood that these risks result in positive production and increase the likelihood that some of these risks result in GA.

I understand what would draw the Coyotes to Hall, but I'm personally questioning how much they value the kind of offense that Clayton Keller can provide in that primary role. Because you're ultimately taking food off of his plate and expecting him to play a safer game.

 

[FlameChampion]

3.25mil x 4 is a bit more than i was hoping for with Kassian. I think its "fair" because he has set of unique skills that very few players in this league. I think there are a lot of teams in the league that would want a player like him. Tough, protects teammates, skates well, hits, can score.

Just tough on this team when we have so much money tied up and still lack top 6 wingers, 3rd line centers and stability on defense/goaltending.

I dont think its worth losing the player over 500k a year or an extra year of term. I hope he remains motivated over the next 4 years.

 

[duul]

...yes?

I'd like to see the data for this.

 

[Daryls Friend]

Every point Archie gets costs Kass a fair bit of $$$$

 

[McTedi]

3.25mil x 4 is a bit more than i was hoping for with Kassian. I think its "fair" because he has set of unique skills that very few players in this league. I think there are a lot of teams in the league that would want a player like him. Tough, protects teammates, skates well, hits, can score.

Just tough on this team when we have so much money tied up and still lack top 6 wingers, 3rd line centers and stability on defense/goaltending.

I dont think its worth losing the player over 500k a year or an extra year of term. I hope he remains motivated over the next 4 years.

I also think Kass has matured quite a bit over the last few years and brings leadership. I agree that we over paying slightly and would have preferred one year less.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Looking at what we have I'm convinced that our biggest need is a 3C.
I would love to see
L1: McDavid-Kassian-Neal
L2: Draisaitl-Yamamoto-RNH
L3: Pageau-Benson-Puljujaarvi
L4: Sheehan-Archibald-Russell

D1: Nurse-Bear
D2: Klefbom-Larsson
D3: Jones-Whichever young d is ready

This would be to start next season of course.

So perhaps Khaira Samurokov 2nd for Pageau?

I’m not trading Samorukov for a rental that’s basically like giving up a first round pick.

 

[Anarchism]

I’m not trading Samorukov for a rental that’s basically like giving up a first round pick.

Yes Pageau only available as a rental...he will resign in Ottawa....
Tierney is the guy you want and might be available .....price will be high...probably get permission to talk with his agent before the trade.
Ottawa will most likely want to upgrade their second from 33 or 34....and want one quality prospect...
If you give them this they would probably take a chiasson back or a Gagner ..probably Gagner who they could run as a centre until kids are ready...
But right now the biggest need is 1LW....get the right player and it will change how we can play the game..

 

[Big Muddy]

Missed a few games have you?

LOL. Just interested in hearing from Oiler fans on this topic. His name appears in trade discussions/proposals.

 

[ujju2]

Kassian is a player I don't mind overpaying a bit for a few reasons:

1) He has proven chemistry with McDavid. Not many players do. He also provides the physicality and protection, and creates space for McDavid.
2) By all accounts the guys in the room love him. Losing him over small amounts of money wouldn't be good for team morale.
3) The playoffs. We all remember 2017. This guy has the potential to be our own Tom Wilson on the top line - remember how effective he was in even a bottom-6 role last time we made the playoffs. Honestly I think it's smart to get him locked up before another stellar postseason drives up his value.

I personally would be hesitant going too much more than 3.5, but at anything less than 4 million I think you have to get him locked up if you can get a 2-year deal. The lower the better though, as always, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Kass take a slight discount to stay with this team. Gotta think that he might have maybe taken a bigger discount if Chia was still here though, considering he's the one that gave Kass the second chance, but not much you can do about that.

 

[Anarchism]

Kassian is a player I don't mind overpaying a bit for a few reasons:

1) He has proven chemistry with McDavid. Not many players do. He also provides the physicality and protection, and creates space for McDavid.
2) By all accounts the guys in the room love him. Losing him over small amounts of money wouldn't be good for team morale.
3) The playoffs. We all remember 2017. This guy has the potential to be our own Tom Wilson on the top line - remember how effective he was in even a bottom-6 role last time we made the playoffs. Honestly I think it's smart to get him locked up before another stellar postseason drives up his value.

I personally would be hesitant going too much more than 3.5, but at anything less than 4 million I think you have to get him locked up if you can get a 2-year deal. The lower the better though, as always, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Kass take a slight discount to stay with this team. Gotta think that he might have maybe taken a bigger discount if Chia was still here though, considering he's the one that gave Kass the second chance, but not much you can do about that.

Yes most of this i agree with,,,but to expand on your first point ....Kassians skill set makes it possible for us to have a choice of the type of LW to play on that line....either a Power forward Maroon type or a scorer/sniper ....either one of these however would have to excel defensively...

 

[ujju2]

LOL. Just interested in hearing from Oiler fans on this topic. His name appears in trade discussions/proposals.

Some people will never like him (combination of Hall trade + 2 subpar seasons + lack of offence) but as far as I'm concerned he's a big part of this team. He's been back to his rock solid defensive play this season, which we haven't seen since the 2016-2017 playoff season. It would be a mistake to trade the guy before the playoffs. He's big, nasty, and can shut down top players and play big minutes. Also on a pretty good contract. As far as I'm concerned he's here to stay, at least for this year, and hopefully longer.

 

[McJesusSaves97]

4) He activates Tkachuk's turtle mode

 

[DaGap]

Kassian is a player I don't mind overpaying a bit for a few reasons:

1) He has proven chemistry with McDavid. Not many players do. He also provides the physicality and protection, and creates space for McDavid.
2) By all accounts the guys in the room love him. Losing him over small amounts of money wouldn't be good for team morale.
3) The playoffs. We all remember 2017. This guy has the potential to be our own Tom Wilson on the top line - remember how effective he was in even a bottom-6 role last time we made the playoffs. Honestly I think it's smart to get him locked up before another stellar postseason drives up his value.

I personally would be hesitant going too much more than 3.5, but at anything less than 4 million I think you have to get him locked up if you can get a 2-year deal. The lower the better though, as always, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Kass take a slight discount to stay with this team. Gotta think that he might have maybe taken a bigger discount if Chia was still here though, considering he's the one that gave Kass the second chance, but not much you can do about that.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Kass gets an extra $1M AAV for unique set of "intangibles." We'll have no issues re-signing our current players and could still realistically add one or two of the cream of the top of UFA's available this summer.