Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Reseason Training Camp Opens July 13th?

[duul]

Well first of all McDavid isn’t Crosby, they dominate the game in completely different ways, so it’s reasonable that the players they clock best with wouldn’t be the same. The example of comparing AA to Kunitz is situational, not suggesting they are similar players skillset wise. The Pens targeted Kunitz specifically because they felt he would be a good fit for Crosby, much like they’ve now done with Zucker.

AA can skate and he can put the puck in the net, two skills that should be at the top of the list when you’re scouting players to play with McDavid. No doubt he has some warts in his game, otherwise you wouldn’t get him for a pair of 2nds. But he’s got a nice package of size, speed and shooting/goal scoring that could fit well with McDavid. Now the work starts to break his bad habits, raise the compete level and train him how best to be effective with 97, and I trust Tippett do be able to get more out of this player.

I wouldn't really consider him to be capable of 'putting the puck in the net' when Josh Archibald has outscored him this year playing on the 3rd and 4th lines of our team playing with the likes of Riley Sheahan etc, all the while adhering to a structured and sound defense-first game plan.

AA has the worst +/- in the entire NHL and completely disregards the defensive zone. He doesn't care if he is scored on 10 times as long as he gets his breakaway. When Josh Archibald is playing bottom 6 minutes, outscoring you, and playing great defensively...I'd be very hesitant to say you're capable of 'putting the puck in the net'.

 

[onetweasy]

I really hope we move on from AA after this playoff run. Especially with Green talking about how him and the other vets in Detroit would try and explain things to him about the NHL that he just wasn't getting, rather refused to get.

Funny how he got traded and probably a part of him subconsciously felt he was thankful for getting to move away from someone like that. I'd like to hear more of his candid thoughts as he could've very easily won the Norris trophy twice in his career. He was an elite defenceman for quite a few years and seems to be an all around great guy. Glad Holland brought him in, and I understand the risk/reward factor with AA especially if he could catch fire for a playoff run.

Anyway, I just don't see AA fitting into the Oilers team at all. As a player or with the culture. Seems as though they have minimal tolerance at the moment for lack of buy in. That is part of the success and culture shift that guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, a mature Kassian, etc have brought.

I think Holland did a good job in identifying solid bottom 6ers in his first year, but more importantly he brought in guys who are known to be very good teammates (aside from AA). That's crucial.

Sorry, bit of a rambling post but...AA looked horrific in his time here so far, and has looked mostly-horrific his entire NHL career. Puts up some points at the expense of team success. Zero defensive acumen, zero will to put effort in unless he has a chance at a breakaway. Watching him 'battle' for the puck in his short stint here made me puke. He looked so out of place compared to the high compete level we've seen from almost all the players on our roster this year. I doubt that something changes, but I obviously hope it does.

While I am concerned about his game, I am hopeful that Tippet can have an impact on him as well as playing in a lineup with McDavid and Draisaitl. He is still at an age where a coach and maturity can have a big impact on his game.

Unlike any coach we have had for a very long time....I fully trust Tippet to find a role for him and if not than its a flush of picks and move on. Still like the idea behind this trade.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I wouldn't really consider him to be capable of 'putting the puck in the net' when Josh Archibald has outscored him this year playing on the 3rd and 4th lines of our team playing with the likes of Riley Sheahan etc, all the while adhering to a structured and sound defense-first game plan.

AA has the worst +/- in the entire NHL and completely disregards the defensive zone. He doesn't care if he is scored on 10 times as long as he gets his breakaway. When Josh Archibald is playing bottom 6 minutes, outscoring you, and playing great defensively...I'd be very hesitant to say you're capable of 'putting the puck in the net'.

Did archi outscore him last year? What about the year before? One before that? Ones playing on a playoff team and one was playing on a near historically bad team that had a historically bad goal differential, everyone’s plus/minus on that team was terrible. He shoots the puck and he’s a career 12.2% shooter, he can score.

Clearly you’ve made up your mind on this player and that’s fine, I’ll admit he wasn’t my favourite acquisition or target but I’ll trust the experience of guys like Holland and Tippett over someone on the internet who thinks it’s smart to trade a guy after 9 games.

 

[CupofOil]

I wouldn't really consider him to be capable of 'putting the puck in the net' when Josh Archibald has outscored him this year playing on the 3rd and 4th lines of our team playing with the likes of Riley Sheahan etc, all the while adhering to a structured and sound defense-first game plan.

AA has the worst +/- in the entire NHL and completely disregards the defensive zone. He doesn't care if he is scored on 10 times as long as he gets his breakaway. When Josh Archibald is playing bottom 6 minutes, outscoring you, and playing great defensively...I'd be very hesitant to say you're capable of 'putting the puck in the net'.

AA had 30 goals in one season just last year, Archibald has 32 goals in his entire career so...
That's just silly cherry picking on your part.
Also, and I like Archibald, but he is far from great defensively and doesn't outscore opponents. He's an energy forward who can pot an occasional goal and provide solid PK, he's not a shutdown guy.

His +/- was inexcusable but the Red Wings were a pretty bad team, no? It was a bad year for everybody on that team.
AA has his flaws but he can "put the puck in the net". He had 64 goals the previous 3 seasons, Nuge had 70 (with lots of McDrai time). He can score.

 

[nabob]

Even when he was glued to Hall and Eberle he generally was 50-60 point guy. Not a bad player by any means but still.

Been a while since he was glued to Hall lol. And Eberle was a 40 point one way player his last couple years here.

when Nuge has had linemates better than Lucic and Jujar he has produced

 

[belair]

AA had 30 goals in one season just last year, Archibald has 32 goals in his entire career so...
That's just silly cherry picking on your part.

His +/- was inexcusable but the Red Wings were a pretty bad team, no? It was a bad year for everybody on that team.
AA has his flaws but he can "put the puck in the net". He had 64 goals the previous 3 seasons, Nuge had 70 (with lots of McDrai time). He can score.

For him to do that here, he'll need to play on one of the top two lines. If he doesn't improve his play away from the puck, he won't get those opportunities.

He scored goals at the expense of his team's success. He was giving up nearly 10 goals more than he was providing them over the past couple seasons in Detroit. This guy needs to grow up fast.

 

[CupofOil]

For him to do that here, he'll need to play on one of the top two lines. If he doesn't improve his play away from the puck, he won't get those opportunities.

He scored goals at the expense of his team's success. He was giving up nearly 10 goals more than he was providing them over the past couple seasons in Detroit. This guy needs to grow up fast.

All I said is that he's fully capable of putting the puck in the net, never said anything about his play away from the puck. Goals are goals, he can score them better than most on this team.

 

[belair]

All I said is that he's fully capable of putting the puck in the net, never said anything about his play away from the puck. Goals are goals, he can score them better than most on this team.

Goals are meaningless if your play style results in chaos. It's really difficult to get that through to people in EASHL. People think that goals and production absolve players of responsibility.

If AA doesn't buy in, he'll never get the ice time required to score goals. It's why all of his points here came in the first game.

 

[Cloned]

Goals are meaningless if your play style results in chaos. It's really difficult to get that through to people in EASHL. People think that goals and production absolve players of responsibility.

If AA doesn't buy in, he'll never get the ice time required to score goals. It's why all of his points here came in the first game.

If this was EASHL, McDavid would have 2000 CR and the Flames would be known for CR glitching.

 

[belair]

If this was EASHL, McDavid would have 2000 CR and the Flames would be known for CR glitching.

Nobody gets 2000 CR. It's a team based stat that defies all logic. Worse than +/-. Win and you get a little bit. Lose and you lose a lot of it. The poor guy would be stuck between six and eight hundred like me.

 

[Cloned]

Nobody gets 2000 CR. It's a team based stat that defies all logic. Worse than +/-. Win and you get a little bit. Lose and you lose a lot of it. The poor guy would be stuck between six and eight hundred like me.

Meh, it's not too difficult to get 1000 CR (humble brag).

McDavid would easily get 2000 CR because EASHL is all about speed, balance and hands.

 

[CupofOil]

Goals are meaningless if your play style results in chaos. It's really difficult to get that through to people in EASHL. People think that goals and production absolve players of responsibility.

If AA doesn't buy in, he'll never get the ice time required to score goals. It's why all of his points here came in the first game.

You're arguing with the wind right now. I'm not disputing any of those points.

Duul said he isn't that capable of putting the puck in the net and even compared his goal scoring prowess to Archibald. I showed that he's capable of scoring goals. Again, never said anything about his play away from the puck, just talking about his goal scoring ability which he has proven he can do with 30 last year and 64 over the 3 season prior to this one.

 

[belair]

Meh, it's not too difficult to get 1000 CR (humble brag).

McDavid would easily get 2000 CR because EASHL is all about speed, balance and hands.

I hit 1100 in 2016 playing drop-ins. This year's version has far too many Athanasious trying to one man show it and teams that are tunnel visioned on the cross-crease and have absolutely no creativity.

It's easy to get to 1000 if you have a relatively competitive club. On your own, you're doomed.

 

[Cloned]

You're arguing with the wind right now. I'm not disputing any of those points.

Duul said he isn't that capable of putting the puck in the net and even compared his goal scoring prowess to Archibald. I showed that he's capable of scoring goals. Again, never said anything about his play away from the puck, just talking about his goal scoring ability which he has proven he can do with 30 last year and 64 over the 3 season prior to this one.

Objection, argumentative.

 

[belair]

You're arguing with the wind right now. I'm not disputing any of those points.

Duul said he isn't that capable of putting the puck in the net and even compared his goal scoring prowess to Archibald. I showed that he's capable of scoring goals. Again, never said anything about his play away from the puck, just talking about his goal scoring ability which he has proven he can do with 30 last year and 64 over the 3 season prior to this one.

I'm not arguing his point. Archie isn't here to score goals. I was happy with him before he even scored one. My point is about AA sticking with the team. I'm not sure he will if he doesn't find a role in the playoffs.

 

[Cloned]

I hit 1100 in 2016 playing drop-ins. This year's version has far too many Athanasious trying to one man show it and teams that are tunnel visioned on the cross-crease and have absolutely no creativity.

It's easy to get to 1000 if you have a relatively competitive club. On your own, you're doomed.

I've got to 1000 mainly doing drop-ins with randoms. You just have to recognize/remember trolls and bad players that you shouldn't play with.

Generally with drop ins, if you're playing as a forward, be prepared to play as the third defenseman until your d-men prove to you otherwise. If you're playing as a d-man, McJesus help you.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm not arguing his point. Archie isn't here to score goals. I was happy with him before he even scored one. My point is about AA sticking with the team. I'm not sure he will if he doesn't find a role in the playoffs.

But you're arguing my point that he"s capable of scoring goals, nothing more nothing less.

As far as him sticking with the team or not, how about we give it more than 9 games before writing his obituary. He played with a losing franchise for 3 years, it's going to take some work to shake those losing habits.

 

[belair]

I've got to 1000 mainly doing drop-ins with randoms. You just have to recognize/remember trolls and bad players that you shouldn't play with.

Generally with drop ins, if you're playing as a forward, be prepared to play as the third defenseman until your d-men prove to you otherwise. If you're playing as a d-man, McJesus help you.

Dman. I've shut down some of the top ranked players in the game mode. But if I don't have a good team supporting me, it's all for none. The Ls pile up and the CR drops.

To kind of get back to my initial point. Try one-manning it against some of the LG teams in Club. You can't. You need to play a system, you need to move pucks quickly and accurately and you need to minimize your turnovers. Mistakes end up in your net.

Athanasiou is the perfect example of the guys who think they can.

 

[belair]

But you're arguing my point that he"s capable of scoring goals, nothing more nothing less.

As far as him sticking with the team or not, how about we give it more than 9 games before writing his obituary. He played with a losing franchise for 3 years, it's going to take some work to shake those losing habits.

My critiques of his game date back to his years playing in Barrie.

 

[Whyme]

His +/- was inexcusable but the Red Wings were a pretty bad team, no? It was a bad year for everybody on that team.
AA has his flaws but he can "put the puck in the net". He had 64 goals the previous 3 seasons, Nuge had 70 (with lots of McDrai time). He can score.

It's true Red Wings weren't a great team, but his +/- has been the worst of the team two times during the last three years. With one slight exception his corsi numbers have always been underwhelming (about the 16th of the team each year). While +/- shows only so much last year in Detroit was really bad, just 17 ES points and -45.

Having said that, both sides have valid arguments. It's early and Tippet may be able to bring the best out of him. 30 goals in one season shows he can get something done under the right circumstances (though his +/- was still among the worst of the team).

If he isn't able to produce and has trouble defensively there's no need to stick to him for ever. The price the Oilers paid for him isn't THAT huge and they could get at least some of that back by trading him.

 

[McShogun99]

Been a while since he was glued to Hall lol. And Eberle was a 40 point one way player his last couple years here.

when Nuge has had linemates better than Lucic and Jujar he has produced

Eberle was always a 50+ point or on pace for 50+ points player while he was in Edmonton. The only time he had less then 51 points for us was his rookie season, lockout season and 47 points in 69 games in 2015/16 which prorated would be a 55 point season. Eberle was great during his time as an Oiler.

 

[fuswald]

I think Nuge is still getting better. Late bloomer.

 

[bellagiobob]

I think Nuge is still getting better. Late bloomer.

Starting to get his man strength now. Sort of kidding, but not really. Seemed much harder to knock off the puck this year.

 

[Mr Positive]

I wouldn't really consider him to be capable of 'putting the puck in the net' when Josh Archibald has outscored him this year playing on the 3rd and 4th lines of our team playing with the likes of Riley Sheahan etc, all the while adhering to a structured and sound defense-first game plan.

AA has the worst +/- in the entire NHL and completely disregards the defensive zone. He doesn't care if he is scored on 10 times as long as he gets his breakaway. When Josh Archibald is playing bottom 6 minutes, outscoring you, and playing great defensively...I'd be very hesitant to say you're capable of 'putting the puck in the net'.

Except, on the Oilers AA was the opposite. He was passive, and defense first. He was -1 in 9 games, which is pretty good considering he was struggling to fit in.

It all has to do with what his assignment is, and the huge difference between his game on different teams shows that he does pay attention to what he's being told, a lot.

AA's negatives in Detroit are likely due to his role. On a bad team, you are often behind on the score sheet, and so the coach throws a guy like AA and tells him to get a goal, and so he looks for cherry picks and gambles. And he gets a minus, a lot. Like so many have said, you need to put that minus in context. On a bad team, it can be a good sign. It can mean that the coach turns to that player more than others when the team needs to get a goal.

I just know that AA's raw tools are what this team needs, desperately. A winger for McDavid is one of our last major holes on the roster. If AA never plays the right way, it was a waste, but it was worth trying. A real shot.

 

[McShogun99]

Hearing the bashing of AA's play on the Wings reminds me of when people would bash Oilers players during the 1st overall years. It's an almost endless list of players that looked bad in Edmonton but found success after they left here during that time. It's also an almost endless list of players that sucked here and played there way out of the NHL. I'd be leaning more towards AA finding his game again.