Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Reseason Training Camp Opens July 13th?

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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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I think Nashville is going to be a dangerous team if they figure their shit out. I'm not convinced that anyone who struggled there this season is as poor as they played. The fact that their PP stunk has a lot to do with that IMO.

Nashville has the same problem as they've always had since their inception. No superstar/elite level offensive forwards. They tried to go the LA Kings route of having a "complete" two-way team with strong defenders, but LA had prime Kopitar/Richards/Carter/Brown (OK maybe not prime Richards but you get my point).

And if they really think John Hynes is the answer then they're in for a world of hurt.
 
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belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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Neal was injured for multiple games too. I still take the guy who scores more goals and is friends with McDavid and has a shorter/smaller contract.
Neal's spike in PPG production this season was the lucky bounce they needed to pique some team's interest. If that didn't happen, he's as valuable as Lucic and the likelihood of you flipping that contract anywhere is non-existent.

Also I couldn't care less about keeping McDavid's 'buds'. That shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for players who can't keep themselves in the lineup.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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Neal's spike in PPG production this season was the lucky bounce they needed to pique some team's interest. If that didn't happen, he's as valuable as Lucic and the likelihood of you flipping that contract anywhere is non-existent.

Also I couldn't care less about keeping McDavid's 'buds'. That shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for players who can't keep themselves in the lineup.

It makes a difference if you're talking about two similar players who are both overpaid and underperforming. In that case you keep the one who scores more goals and is McDavid's friend. Plus he has a smaller/shorter contract. Easy decision.
 

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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Neal's spike in PPG production this season was the lucky bounce they needed to pique some team's interest. If that didn't happen, he's as valuable as Lucic and the likelihood of you flipping that contract anywhere is non-existent.

Also I couldn't care less about keeping McDavid's 'buds'. That shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for players who can't keep themselves in the lineup.
Turris was only slightly better than Neal, if at all this year at 5on5.

You shouldn't care about that, but you should care about adding more cap for an extra year when its not necessary.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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It makes a difference if you're talking about two similar players who are both overpaid and underperforming. In that case you keep the one who scores more goals and is McDavid's friend. Plus he has a smaller/shorter contract. Easy decision.
Fortunately we're talking about two players who've never been similar at any point in their respective careers. One who's in his early thirties, still scoring at a respectable rate at 5v5. While the other's heading into his mid-thirties who needed a dozen PP goals to have a bounceback season in terms of production.

Again we're talking about a center who will play against a winger who may not.
 
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belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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Turris was only slightly better than Neal, if at all this year at 5on5.

You shouldn't care about that, but you should care about adding more cap for an extra year when its not necessary.
Neal's 5v5 production relied a heck of a lot being paired with one of 97 or 29. He still managed to come up short. That won't improve.

As for the extra year, I'd be willing to take that risk. Odds are if you can inflate Turris' production, he becomes an option for Seattle at the expansion draft. Centers are also far more valuable commodities than wingers.
 
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BarDownBobo

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Oct 19, 2012
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Fortunately were talking about two players who've never been similar at any point in their respective careers. One who's in his early thirties, still scoring at a respectable rate at 5v5. While the other's heading into his mid-thirties who needed a dozen PP goals to have a bounceback season in terms of production.

Again we're talking about a center who will play against a winger who may not.
This is quite the hyperbole on their ages considering there’s less than two years gap between them...
 
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McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
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Oh so what I’m doing is extremely petty? Your using rumours, like those zetterberg comments to justify what your saying but you haven’t provided the evidence. Provide the evidence and I’ll agree with you. I’ve learnt, from how you were justifying your thing against Yamamoto, to take things you say with a grain of salt unless you provide evidence

All his points are correct . As for you bring up Yamamoto hindsight is 20/20 . I ask you this . Have you ever been wrong on your opinion On here ? I know I have been a few times a year or more . No shame in being wrong we all have opinions on making the team better . I don’t care if I am wrong and someone else is right we are all Oilers fans and just want to win . I hope AA turns out but I heard the same rumours right after the trade . Having said that being on a bad team can make a player try too hard ( trying to do it themselves ) I do agree 9 games isn’t enough time to judge a player but he will need to be broken of some of his bad habits. Like J Schultz in Pittsburgh after he left a bad Edmonton team .
 

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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Has he even be given 1 game with Draisaitl?

He had 1 1/2 games with McDavid before getting hurt and then was moved onto the 3rd line.

This is the type of mentality that is incredibly stupid.

With a flat cap, there is no open toy store to run to just because you don't like this toy immediately.

You don't score 30 goals in this league by accident either, especially not without a generational center.

What will seperate good teams now will be those that get the most out of their support pieces, because you don't have the lazy luxury of just spending more money on different players any time one thing is not working.

It's incumbent on Tippett to make this work. This guy has enough talent to play, and yes he has some flaws, so boo-hoo what are you going to do? Sit there and cry about that or instead try to put the player in the best position to succeed.
Welcome to HFOil, where we base opinions and write them in ink based off incredibly short observations.

I've seen posters confirm that Hall and McDavid could never work together based off a 55 minute sample from mcdavid's rookie year.
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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All his points are correct . As for you bring up Yamamoto hindsight is 20/20 . I ask you this . Have you ever been wrong on your opinion On here ? I know I have been a few times a year or more . No shame in being wrong we all have opinions on making the team better . I don’t care if I am wrong and someone else is right we are all Oilers fans and just want to win . I hope AA turns out but I heard the same rumours right after the trade . Having said that being on a bad team can make a player try too hard ( trying to do it themselves ) I do agree 9 games isn’t enough time to judge a player but he will need to be broken of some of his bad habits. Like J Schultz in Pittsburgh after he left a bad Edmonton team .
I will say this regarding AA here, I didn't see much poke and hope type plays here if any. He wasn't cheating for offense.

I think having someone who can chip in 20 goals from the third line with that type of icetime is better value than someone who can chip in 25-30 boosted by McDavid.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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This is quite the hyperbole on their ages considering there’s less than two years gap between them...
Not really when you're considering position and the type of game the player's been known for throughout their respective careers. The wear and tear on Neal's body is likely a significant contributor to his declining production. I'm saying that Turris' has likely had more to do with player usage and lack of opportunity than physical decline.
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
32,758
6,367
Edmonton
Welcome to HFOil, where we base opinions and write them in ink based off incredibly short observations.

I've seen posters confirm that Hall and McDavid could never work together based off a 55 minute sample from mcdavid's rookie year.

The first four or five NHL games McDavid ever played mind you.
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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The first four or five NHL games McDavid ever played mind you.
He actually only played the first game with McDavid full time, after that it was just a couple minutes here and there.

And all the advanced stats show to them dominating in their limited minutes after McDavid came back from injury.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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I will say this regarding AA here, I didn't see much poke and hope type plays here if any. He wasn't cheating for offense.

I think having someone who can chip in 20 goals from the third line with that type of icetime is better value than someone who can chip in 25-30 boosted by McDavid.
Where was the evidence you could get 20 goals from Athanasiou from the third line? His production in Detroit came from him seeing primary offensive opportunities at both ES and PP.

He has the potential to provide secondary offense, but he's a guy who gives up more than he creates. So I'm not entirely convinced he does much without the necessary support.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
35,797
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Where was the evidence you could get 20 goals from Athanasiou from the third line? His production in Detroit came from him seeing primary offensive opportunities at both ES and PP.

He has the potential to provide secondary offense, but he's a guy who gives up more than he creates. So I'm not entirely convinced he does much without the necessary support.
He wasnt the big minus player here that we saw in Detroit
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
38,537
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He wasnt the big minus player here that we saw in Detroit
His xGF/GA show you he was giving up >8 more goals than he was providing on average the past two seasons.

The short time he spent here isn't something you should put a lot of emphasis on, but he struggled. Certainly didn't look like a player who could score twenty from the bottom six.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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I'm not saying you trade Athanasiou for the sake of trading him. He's a player who can consistently score 20-30 each year based solely on his physical ability. My concern is that he's not a player who has the hockey sense to thrive with McDavid, nor does he possess the drive to buy into the system that Tippett has brought here.

IMO he's got one year here before we decide whether or not he's worth protecting at the expansion draft. At that point he's more or less a sunk cost. What I'm saying is that if you're in a position where you can trade up, Athanasiou is a more attractive piece in a package than the two 2nds we dropped on him.

Argue all you want about what he's capable of with which center. I'm saying that this player may be a more valuable trade asset this off-season than a scoring winger in our bottom six moving forward. Maybe, maybe not.
 
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Samus44

Enjoy the ride.
Aug 5, 2010
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I'm not saying you trade Athanasiou for the sake of trading him. He's a player who can consistently score 20-30 each year based solely on his physical ability. My concern is that he's not a player who has the hockey sense to thrive with McDavid, nor does he possess the drive to buy into the system that Tippett has brought here.

IMO he's got one year here before we decide whether or not he's worth protecting at the expansion draft. At that point he's more or less a sunk cost. What I'm saying is that if you're in a position where you can trade up, Athanasiou is a more attractive piece in a package than the two 2nds we dropped on him.

Argue all you want about what he's capable of with which center. I'm saying that this player may be a more valuable trade asset this off-season than a scoring winger in our bottom six moving forward. Maybe, maybe not.

I thought he was doing everything he could to try and fit into the system and looked a step behind because of it. I thought his biggest issues looked to be hockey sense which could easily be chalked up to a lack of chemistry and familiarity. By my eye he was slow to recognize when to compete and be aggressive and he also never looked too comfortable finding give and go opportunities, that can be poor hockey sense but that's also not uncommon for someone who's thinking instead of reacting naturally. I do think he's likely to be an error prone player but that often comes with the skill set of strong rushing players, the same skill set is one that allows him to make up for his mistakes in an instant. Hockey is about creating more than you give up and I do think Athanasiou was looking to limit his mistakes which cost him his effectiveness which hopefully will be a moot point as he gets acclimatized and his skill set can begin to shine. I think at the very worst he can likely help on a 3rd line where he can be sheltered and given a chance to dominate lesser players. In that kind of role I think Athanasiou might actually be better served at center where he's moving his feet all the time and transporting pucks from down low as long as he's not too risky in his own zone. He's one of the more interesting and difficult players to pin down I've seen in some time.
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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Where was the evidence you could get 20 goals from Athanasiou from the third line? His production in Detroit came from him seeing primary offensive opportunities at both ES and PP.

He has the potential to provide secondary offense, but he's a guy who gives up more than he creates. So I'm not entirely convinced he does much without the necessary support.
Where did I say there was evidence? I was stating a theoretical.
 

McTonyBrar

Registered User
Apr 2, 2018
18,457
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All his points are correct . As for you bring up Yamamoto hindsight is 20/20 . I ask you this . Have you ever been wrong on your opinion On here ? I know I have been a few times a year or more . No shame in being wrong we all have opinions on making the team better . I don’t care if I am wrong and someone else is right we are all Oilers fans and just want to win . I hope AA turns out but I heard the same rumours right after the trade . Having said that being on a bad team can make a player try too hard ( trying to do it themselves ) I do agree 9 games isn’t enough time to judge a player but he will need to be broken of some of his bad habits. Like J Schultz in Pittsburgh after he left a bad Edmonton team .
Of course I’ve been wrong about my opinion and, when I actually got some sense, I admitted.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,141
27,826
Nugent Hopkins wouldn't score 20 goals in the bottom six here, the bottom six has serious problems scoring consistently.
 
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