Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Hey Ken Where's the Help?

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

You didn't pick up on my sarcasm.

No I did not. The written word is not very good at the old sarcasm thing which is why I was asking as I couldn’t believe it was on the level.

 

[Garbo Man]

Yes they are. A 2nd round pick and Lavoie are more than likely never going to come close to the production Toffoli provides, if they even make the NHL in the first place in any capacity. RNH isn't a winger, but I agree that Yamamoto and him are similar in production to Toffoli.

Would you trade Lavoie and a 2nd for RNH? Yamo? Of course.

Dude you're way over valuing Toffoli man. Toffoli isn't even close to RNH or Yama right now in talent so of course i'd do the trade?

 

[duul]

Chaisson’s contract is not comparable to Schaller. Schaller is a UFA at the end of the year. Chaisson has another year at a higher price than Schaller. LA clearly wanted an expiring contract.

And I’d say Toffoli would nowhere be close to being our best winger.

I am not making the assumption that the deal would get done, only replying to the proposal someone posted in which lots of our fellow Oilers homers claim it would be an overpayment. I agree, Vancouvers offer is more palatable for L.A.

 

[CupofOil]

Madden was a 3rd rounder playing at Northeastern.
Maybe we should have traded Filip Berglund a 2nd and a 4th for Toffoli. Our divisional rivals are paying prices within our reach to acquire roster players that we need worse than they do. Toffoli would be a huge upgrade for our top 6 and I’m not even his biggest fan. Coleman would have been better but his price was actually too high.

We need to add a player that can actually contribute on the scoreboard. It’ll do more than help us keep up in the arms race — our need runs deeper than the trade deadline.

Madden is far better than Berglund. He would arguably be the Oilers 3rd best prospect. You're looking at Lavoie+2nd at minimum to equal that, for 25+whatever playoff games of Toffoli then when he signs elsewhere, you're stuck with that same hole on wing and lost their best forward prospect plus a 2nd rounder.

It's not the right time for the Oilers to make that type of trade, not the right time for Vancouver either for that matter. Teams like Tampa, Boston, Pittsburgh, Colorado, St.Louis and Washington are built to make moves like that.

 

[duul]

So? He's also a UFA and a player who plays a position that doesn't address a current roster need. How would that trade be beneficial to us assuming we're in the same boat as the Vancouver Canucks?

Neither of us are in the Cup conversation.

*checks RW depth*

Yamamoto
Kassian
Chiasson
Archibald
Russell

That is literally the worst position of depth on our team.

 

[Cloned]

Yes they are. A 2nd round pick and Lavoie are more than likely never going to come close to the production Toffoli provides, if they even make the NHL in the first place in any capacity. RNH isn't a winger, but I agree that Yamamoto and him are similar in production to Toffoli.

Would you trade Lavoie and a 2nd for RNH? Yamo? Of course.

This post is all sorts of wrong. Sorry, but it is.

I don't even know where to start, tbh.

RNH and Yamo aren't comparable in terms of trade value to Toffoli. Contract status being the biggest difference.

Toffoli is a streaky scorer who doesn't bring any other intangibles to the game. He's basically Eberle except he's an impending UFA so he's a full rental. Would I trade Lavoie + 2nd for that? No.

 

[Garbo Man]

*checks RW depth*

Yamamoto
Kassian
Chiasson
Archibald
Russell

That is literally the worst position of depth on our team.

I'd say it's:
Yamamoto
Kassian
Archibald
Chaisson
Russell
and in all honesty Toffoli would be right around Archibald for me

 

[Mr Positive]

Like i've said before i'd rather Holland do nothing this year and go all in next year when we have more cap

Maybe by this time next year we are worse in the standings though, even if we load up. Why is next year so awesome to try for a up but not now? Knock on wood, but maybe next year we have injury issues. No major issues for us this year, assuming this McDavid thing is truly minor. Klefbom was labeled as injury prone once upon a time.

We have hot goalies right now. Next year? Who knows? Not me or you or anyone.

This is as good a year as any to gun for it.

 

[Garbo Man]

Maybe by this time next year we are worse in the standings though, even if we load up. Why is next year so awesome to try for a up but not now? Knock on wood, but maybe next year we have injury issues. No major issues for us this year, assuming this McDavid thing is truly minor. Klefbom was labeled as injury prone once upon a time.

We have hot goalies right now. Next year? Who knows? Not me or you or anyone.

This is as good a year as any to gun for it.

Ok so we gun for it trade our first rounder and some prospect and then get bounced in the first round? Would you be ok with that?

 

[CycloneSweep]

There is 0% chance that we Don't make a trade.. Holland will make them but they just wouldn't be sexy.

Something like Simmonds for Khaira

Nicholson's ass will surely be on the line if we don't make the playoffs. Fan rage will be a factor for sure

With how the team is playing right now and with what seems like zero pressure from above. I could easily see Holland making no moves.

 

[Garbo Man]

I am not making the assumption that the deal would get done, only replying to the proposal someone posted in which lots of our fellow Oilers homers claim it would be an overpayment. I agree, Vancouvers offer is more palatable for L.A.

Call me a homer for not wanting to trade futures for a middle 9 player that may or may not even be on our team next year

 

[Cloned]

*checks RW depth*

Yamamoto
Kassian
Chiasson
Archibald
Russell

That is literally the worst position of depth on our team.

RW is our deepest position at forward. There are 5 legitimate NHL RWs on the roster (Yamamoto, Kassian, Chiasson, Archibald, Neal is also a RW). Center might have more top end talent but RW is deeper.

Our worst position is LW.

 

[space321]

Seeing Bear, Jones, Yamamoto, and Jones step in for injuries and fill big holes in our line up should show exactly how valuable good drafting is.

It's a crap shoot even with great scouting but if we can keep a steady stream of young cost controlled assets we will be more competitive longer.

If we have cup in mind think Chicago before they had to sell or Tampa currently.

I'd much rather have a window starting now and finishing in at least 5 to 10 years than give away high assets right now for a slightly better group for this year only.

I've heard many say this is a deep draft and not one to give up 1st and second rounds. Our forward prospect depth is extremely thin and needs to be stocked.

Let's get competitive first, then think about staying that way for longer.

Fact is, the team is in this pickle of a situation because of what Chiarelli did. He gutted the forward depth without fixing any other problems. Now as a result, we're both looking for depth AND talent. There's nothing else we can offer other teams aside from futures.

Now that means there is a fine line between completely crippling our future (which I'm not advocating for) and getting a quality forward to help with our playoff push (and hopefully in the playoffs as well). It's always going to be a gamble based on the nature of rentals. If the west weren't this wide open, I would also think to keep stockpiling prospects. But fact is, we're actually close to being top of the west, getting a top 6 forward can actually put us there. If that means giving up a quality prospect like Lavoie, McLeod, Samorukov, or even Broberg, then I'd do it. Bouchard is a tough call because he's much closer to the NHL than the others.

It's for McDavid and Draisaitl's sake. Nothing is for certain in this league. We could stockpile all the good prospects, and none of them could pan out. Next year we could run into injury problems. Next year players can regress and have a down year. Next year Yamamoto could regress from his 30% shooting percentage. etc. etc. We keep saying "next year" and "future" since 2010, and look where it got us.

I know some of you feel burnt by the Hall for Larsson trade and tried your hardest to pretend like it was a good trade, but not every trade has to be that bad.

 

[Mr Positive]

Ok so we gun for it trade our first rounder and some prospect and then get bounced in the first round? Would you be ok with that?

#1 there are ways to protect against that, like conditional picks

#2 do you think all teams who trade for players at the deadline are doing a bad thing? Yes, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it does.

#3 You want to load up for next year, and to me that is worse. I just want a rental. You are talking about adding long term contracts on the books. To me that is worse to our future than giving up picks and prospects, even good ones.

 

[Stoneman89]

Meh, that's just one side of the story. Holland did the same as Chia.. throw cheap **** against the wall and hope some stick.
Jurco, Haas, Persson didn't pan out but Archi, Shehan are starting to gel.
Sure we got rid of Lucic but we had to retain salary and Neal is an offensive black hole at ES. What does he have at ES? 10 or 12 points getting top 6 regular minutes. -23 to boot.

Tippet should get more credit for our PK and PP than Holland. We have Drai and Nuge killing penalties regularly which means Holland didn't really do his job.

Kassian deal looks pretty crappy at the moment as well. Worst possible time to sign that player.

We brought in about 6 new guys and you expected every one of them to turn into something special? When you have that many holes, you do the best you can, and the fact that Sheahan, Archie, and Nygaard have turned into serviceable players and more, is a win for me. And I still think Haas has some value and continues to grow. As for Neal, you can't just throw away the 19 goals he scored, however he scored them, and pretend they didn't help us win some games early on. Night and day from what Lucic would have brought. And if he comes back healthy and can pot another 5-10, then it's a huge win.
Chia literally did throw shit against the wall, both with his free agent signings and his crazy trades, giving away draft picks like they were 10 cent pieces of candy. Holland has made some calculated gambles that clearly have paid off. He has done more this year than Chia did in 4 years. Check that, not true, Chia actually went backwards from when he started.

 

[Garbo Man]

#1 there are ways to protect against that, like conditional picks

#2 do you think all teams who trade for players at the deadline are doing a bad thing? Yes, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it does.

#3 You want to load up for next year, and to me that is worse. I just want a rental. You are talking about adding long term contracts on the books. To me that is worse to our future than giving up picks and prospects, even good ones.

I never said add long term contracts. I said i'd rather he do it next year when we have more cap room. I'd rather trade for a player with maybe a year or 2 extra on his contract than trade future for a UFA that probably wouldn't sign with us anyways

 

[McTonyBrar]

Yes? He is a horrific skater who got 4th line minutes at the WJC this year. He's a good player, good scorer, but it's unlikely he even makes the NHL let alone becomes close to the player Toffoli is now.

LOOOOOOLLLLLL

 

[duul]

RW is our deepest position at forward. There are 5 legitimate NHL RWs on the roster (Yamamoto, Kassian, Chiasson, Archibald, Neal is also a RW). Center might have more top end talent but RW is deeper.

Our worst position is LW.

Considering Neal and RNH are playing LW, LW is slightly better. Yes, we have 'legitimate' NHLers on LW as well. The issue is Yamamoto is our only RW who should be playing in the top 9.

 

[CupofOil]

#1 there are ways to protect against that, like conditional picks

#2 do you think all teams who trade for players at the deadline are doing a bad thing? Yes, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it does.

#3 You want to load up for next year, and to me that is worse. I just want a rental. You are talking about adding long term contracts on the books. To me that is worse to our future than giving up picks and prospects, even good ones.

Most of the time rentals don't work out, even for teams that are legit Cup contenders.

I'm all for dealing the 1st+ for a player with term but it would be foolish to overspend for a rental.

 

[Garbo Man]

LOOOOOOLLLLLL

This dude clearly knows less than i do about prospects and i know next to nothing

 

[Cloned]

Considering Neal and RNH are playing LW, LW is slightly better. Yes, we have 'legitimate' NHLers on LW as well. The issue is Yamamoto is our only RW who should be playing in the top 9.

Neal plays more RW than LW, but even if you put him as a LW, RW is still deeper.

Toffoli is clearly not the "best winger on this team by a country mile" though.

 

[McTonyBrar]

This dude clearly knows less than i do about prospects and i know next to nothing

Duul is so wrong. He called Yam a bust. That should be evidence enough

 

[Mr Sakich]

Canucks GM Benning gets fired if they miss the playoffs so he trades their 1st, 2nd and a top prospect. This trade reminds me of how we ended up with Manning

 

[Nostradumbass]

If we did this for the 2017 playoff run, we wouldn't have Yamamoto right now.

 

[duul]

Neal plays more RW than LW, but even if you put him as a LW, RW is still deeper.

Toffoli is clearly not the "best winger on this team by a country mile" though.

I would say he is, considering Yamamoto is only ~50 games into his NHL career and off to a hot start playing with the 2nd best player on earth. Has potential to be better than Toffoli, but I wouldn't say he's an obvious 'better'. Nugent-Hopkins is a better winger if he's playing wing, sure. He is a C though.

Anyway, the point is that both sides of our centre are objectively trash. Bringing in a guy good for 20-25 goals if not more playing with McDavid/Drai...would be huge strictly from a player and value standpoint in relation to Lavoie, 2nd, Chaser.

Contract stuff is another discussion and makes it less worth, of course. Talent wise, it would be worth.

 

[Mr Positive]

Most of the time rentals don't work out, even for teams that are legit Cup contenders.

I'm all for dealing the 1st+ for a player with term but it would be foolish to overspend for a rental.

imo most of the rentals that don't work are the kind that Tampa is getting. For us it would be meaningful because it's not a typical deadline deal. It's a deal that could and should have been made at any point of the season. It's not loading up for the sake of loading up. The McDavid line is not working. A new player has a great chance of working out if they are truly needed