Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Goaltending Upgrade(s) In Season or Off Season?

[Bryanbryoil]

I like how Hall talked about wanting to be on a winning team during the off season then turns down less money from winning teams to sign with Buffalo.

Skinner has 1 point in 13 games. Holy shit is that contract ever terrible. WTF happened to him? He's worse than Lucic ffs.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Halls coming home boys

 

[Fourier]

Smart guy wrote ....... Debrusk is far from the player RNH is. RNH fills a need and is wanted by Mcdavid. I would be shocked if he isn’t re-signed.

I could swallow a 7 on the dollar side, would be tougher on the term. I will be surprised to see the dollars not in the 7M range. Holland won’t let him walk considering he’s been a lifetime Oiler, despite Holland not being here for his tenure he has a history of paying loyal veterans. He’s a big part of the PP, and he’s probably going to be stapled to Mcdavid.

You just have to hope they don’t go full Jeff Skinner and pay him to a franchise crippling contract and he gives up.

The thing is too, who replaces him? No Hall is not the answer, Debrusk is a serious downgrade. There just isn’t a cheaper or better option right now.

Hey I agree RNH is a better and more rounded player right now as he can play both center and wing plus PK. But Debrusk is younger, has scored about as well (without McDavid and Drai) and has superior on-ice numbers. What if the other $3 million dollars you save on Debrusk gets you Adam Lowrey (or another very good 3C)? Does that change the equation?

For me I think Debrusk + Lowrey > RNH. That's the way you have to think in a cap league. Of course that assumes you can get Debrusk for RNH and then can sign Lowrey as a UFA this summer.

If Debrusk came to the Oilers and put up 25 goals and say 50 points he is going to cost you $6-7M for sure by 2022-2023. He'd be a 25 year old RFA with arbitration rights in his last year before becoming a UFA. That is probably the worst bargaining position a team could have as far as a contract is concerned. If you want evidence for this look no further than his teammate Charlie Coyle who signed for $5.25M coming off a 12 goals 34 points in 81 games season based on one very good playoff performance. There will be no significant savings on the cap unless the guy you replace Nuge with is a big step down or unless it is a guy in your system that you control for a long time.

 

[Fourier]

Looks like RNH is the new whipping boy. All the hate is ridiculous.

The only part of this I'd dispute is your choice of the word new.

He's 27th in points in the league, 21st in goals after finishing 32nd in points last year and 53rd in goals. He had 8 points in 4 games in the play-ins but it seems that this is replacement level production. And of course the arguement will be he is playing with McDavid.

It's no secret I am a fan of the player, but if the team can replace him with someone cheaper who makes the team better I am onside. I am just not seeing any such options being presented that don't require a wing and a prayer to make them come to fruition.

 

[Kolja]

Halls coming home boys

Please NO! All teams he plays for sinks faster than the Titanic. Keep the distance!

 

[Asiaoil]

If Debrusk came to the Oilers and put up 25 goals and say 50 points he is going to cost you $6-7M for sure by 2022-2023. He'd be a 25 year old RFA with arbitration rights in his last year before becoming a UFA. That is probably the worst bargaining position a team could have as far as a contract is concerned. If you want evidence for this look no further than his teammate Charlie Coyle who signed for $5.25M coming off a 12 goals 34 points in 81 games season based on one very good playoff performance. There will be no significant savings on tehthe cap unless the guy you replace Nuge with is a big step down or unless it is a guy in your system that you control for a long time.

Some truth to that - but new economy probably means salaries are going down - and the team needs to go for it next year. We need a good (but not great) LW, 3C and goalie. Paying RNH $7 million will make filling any of those holes really difficult. Got to pay Yamo next summer but Nurse and JP have one more year. So next season is a major window where you need to do more than pay Nuge and steady as she goes. RNH is a very good player - but if we can deal him and fill two holes - that would go a long way toward being a serious contender.

 

[Fourier]

Some truth to that - but new economy probably means salaries are going down - and the team needs to go for it next year. We need a good (but not great) LW, 3C and goalie. Paying RNH $7 million will make filling any of those holes really difficult. Got to pay Yamo next summer but Nurse and JP have one more year. So next season is a major window where you need to do more than pay Nuge and steady as she goes. RNH is a very good player - but if we can deal him and fill two holes - that would go a long way toward being a serious contender.

There is no evidence that salaries on long term deals will drop all that much. Debrusk at his current level could get $4.5-5M on a long term deal. Look at a guy like Mantha. He just got $5.7M on a 4 year deal with similar numbers to Debrusk. Players and agents aren't stupid. They know that unless the pandemic continues long term revenues are going to go up a lot and very soon. The major unknown is how long it takes for the current revenue hit to work its way through the system. (It may be the hit on revenue ends up being less than first thought if the US starts to open up venues for some fans. NY has already announced they will permit limited attendance. One would think that teams would target high margin customers in such circumstances). They also know that teams will pay for any player capable of scoring 20 plus goals on a consistent basis. The reality is that you won't come close to replacing Nuge's contributions and have money left over for a significant upgraade anywhere else unless you get extremely lucky.


As far as trading Nuge, I don't see this happenning unless he makes it clear he is walking. This team cannot afford to take a significant step back this year if it looks like a playoff spot is in reach. The team would have to really fall off for that to not be the case.

 

[Mr Positive]

This post is just a complete load of nonsense.

Oh please. It's a reasonable opinion. I dont look down at people who want to keep Nuge long term either. That is also a reasonable opinion.

It is a fact that Yamamoto already does some things better than Nuge. Nuge does some things better, but hence why I said it is arguable. So sorry but you're way off base here.

Second, of course RNH will decline. Look at stats for all forwards like him. And btw just because he will be in decline doesnt mean he will be a bad player those years. He is also not in decline currently. Never said that

Age is impossible to ignore. If we sign him 7 years at 7 million. Its not a question of whether or not his contract will be an albatross, but how many years of it will. I happen to think our window to win is more than 7 years. And btw our standard for "albatross" is low considering how tight our cap is, and it will only get worse

And btw I love Nuge. I fully endorse a 7 million AAV deal, but only 3-4 years. It's just cold logic to restrict it

 

[Gregsky99]

James Neal traded @ 50% retained for two years ($2.875M/season) or bought out ($1.917M for four years)?

Apparently I’m in the minority when it comes to buying out Neal this year or next. We are still paying for Benoit pouliot and sekera. This hurts us 3-4 years from now way more than just letting Neal play out his contract next year. I would rather have the extra two mil down the road than the extra space in one year next year. Let the contract run one more year so the buyout next year is way less or do 50% retention in a trade next year. If we didn’t buy out sekera and pouliot, this year we have another 3 mil. How many good players could we have for 3 mil this year. Neal can still be a 4th line player and PP specialist (if Tippett used him right)

 

[Mr Positive]

Apparently I’m in the minority when it comes to buying out Neal this year or next. We are still paying for Benoit pouliot and sekera. This hurts us 3-4 years from now way more than just letting Neal play out his contract next year. I would rather have the extra two mil down the road than the extra space in one year next year. Let the contract run one more year so the buyout next year is way less or do 50% retention in a trade next year. If we didn’t buy out sekera and pouliot, this year we have another 3 mil. How many good players could we have for 3 mil this year. Neal can still be a 4th line player and PP specialist (if Tippett used him right)

I agree. We have cheap deals on Yamamoto, Bouchard, Bear, and will have cheap deals on Holloway and others. I think we have to suffer through Neal's contract now because we dont want dead cap when those cheap players want their money. So just think of Neal's space as reserved cap

 

[North]

Skinner has 1 point in 13 games. Holy shit is that contract ever terrible. WTF happened to him? He's worse than Lucic ffs.

Krueger doesn’t seem to like Skinner. I’m pretty sure he’s had him playing on the fourth line.

 

[jukon]

I can't believe you guys want Hall back. You remember that he had zero chemistry with McDavid right? 7-8M on a player that you already know didn't fit where you want him. So your only hope is that he has chemistry with Drai? Hall gets most of his goals the same way Drai does. Will you give him Drai's spot on the PP?

Nuge won't cost nearly as much as Hall, he has chemistry with both centres and plays both special teams. Oh he can also play centre in the event of an injury.

Unless you want to win the draft lottery. I know who I want on my team.

 

[jukon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Neal will be off to the Kraken this summer. Not sure the exact cost but Vegas took lots of bad contacts to stockpile assets. Seattle will attempt to follow their model to a T.

Our goalie situation will also be solved by the expansion draft, either directly with Seattle or indirectly.

 

[McDrai]

I can't believe you guys want Hall back. You remember that he had zero chemistry with McDavid right? 7-8M on a player that you already know didn't fit where you want him. So your only hope is that he has chemistry with Drai? Hall gets most of his goals the same way Drai does. Will you give him Drai's spot on the PP?

Nuge won't cost nearly as much as Hall, he has chemistry with both centres and plays both special teams. Oh he can also play centre in the event of an injury.

Unless you want to win the draft lottery. I know who I want on my team.

I remember when McDavid was injured a few years ago and Hall+Drai were absolute dynamite together. Wouldn't be opposed to trying those 2 out together but then again RNH really gelled with Drai last season and could probably be re-signed for a lot less than what Hall will command.

 

[CupofOil]

I’d say offer Seattle our 1st to take Neal, or wait it out for another year. Even with Neal, we should have room to bring back Nuge, Larsson, and Barrie, extend our RFAs, and go sign a goalie.

That would be awful, a really really bad idea, especially after Holland spent so many picks for what amounted to nothing last year. They need to use the 1st as a trade asset to upgrade the roster, not to offload a contract.

It's a bad idea for a few reasons. They will have cap flexibility even with Neal's contract so why the urgency to attach a valuable asset just to rid of him with only 2 years left on the contract, and they could just buy him out if they want to rid of him that bad. I'd rather have $1.9M of dead money on the cap for the next 4 years than dump a 1st to rid of the contract entirely.

 

[The Nuge]

Whoa....let's use our 1st rounders to acquire positive assets, not to dispose of expired players. That 1st round pick could be use for a goalie (as part of a package).

it definitely could be used for that, but you’re not just paying to dump Neal. You’re paying to protect guys.

That would be awful, a really really bad idea, especially after Holland spent so many picks for what amounted to nothing last year.

It's a bad idea for a few reasons. They will have cap flexibility even with Neal's contract so why the urgency to attach a valuable asset just to rid of him with only 2 years left on the contract, and they could just buy him out if they want to rid of him that bad. I'd rather have $1.9M of dead money on the cap for the next 4 years than dump a 1st to rid of the contract entirely.

ok but would you rather have 1.9 in dead cap, no Pulju (we have to lose someone to the expansion draft), and our 1st or Pulju, no dead cap, but no 1st?

 

[CupofOil]

it definitely could be used for that, but you’re not just paying to dump Neal. You’re paying to protect guys.



ok but would you rather have 1.9 in dead cap, no Pulju (we have to lose someone to the expansion draft), and our 1st or Pulju, no dead cap, but no 1st?

How are they losing Pulju? They have no reason to go 4x4 at this point so I'm sure he'll be protected.
I'm not giving Seattle a 1st just so the Oilers can keep Jones or Benson and save $3M+ this offseason when they already have cap flexibility to start with.

Chances are that the Oilers will have to upgrade the roster through trade, because big free agent contracts rarely work out, so if you have no draft pick until the 4th round you significantly hamper your ability to make a meaningful trade.

 

[Canovin]

Having any amount of dead cap for the next 4 years is unwise when you got Yamo, Nurse, RNH, Bouchard, Pulju, Bear, Barrie etc requiring extensions. We need all the cap space we can get.

Sure you can make a case where Holland wasted 2x 2nds for nothing. But he made up for it with Barrie, Pulju, Koekoek, Kahun and we are a better team because of this.

Pay Seattle 2 x2nd to take Neal. That frees up 6M and we will be a better team because of it.

 

[rambo97]

Halls coming home boys

Why would we want him? I was hoping he signed with the Oilers this past offseason but watching him this year makes it clear that his decline in the last 1.5 years is legit and he won’t be returning to his old form.

That whole 2010 draft class of forwards seem to be in decline (Seguin, Skinner, Johansen, etc).

I know hockey is a brutal sport on the hips but watching these guys and other stars like Tavares not be as effective is quite shocking

 

[CupofOil]

Having any amount of dead cap for the next 4 years is unwise when you got Yamo, Nurse, RNH, Bouchard, Pulju, Bear, Barrie etc requiring extensions. We need all the cap space we can get.

Sure you can make a case where Holland wasted 2x 2nds for nothing. But he made up for it with Barrie, Pulju, Koekoek and we are a better team because of this.

Pay Seattle 2 x2nd to take Neal. That frees up 6M and we will be a better team because of it.

The RNH raise shouldn't be too signifcant, Yamamoto at this point is likely to get a modest bridge contract not a big raise, Barrie probably won't be re-signed at least not at big numbers (hopefully) and Nurse, Bear, Pulju and Bouchard aren't due for a raise until 2 years from now when Koskinen will be off the books and Neal will only have one year left. Attaching a valuable asset to rid of Neal makes no sense to be honest.

 

[Broberg Speed]

it definitely could be used for that, but you’re not just paying to dump Neal. You’re paying to protect guys.



ok but would you rather have 1.9 in dead cap, no Pulju (we have to lose someone to the expansion draft), and our 1st or Pulju, no dead cap, but no 1st?

Did you just say the Oilers {are likely to/might as well/in this scenario will} leave Jesse Puljujarvi exposed for the expansion draft. I hate you very much this morning. My penitential for bloodthirsty hysteria just went up 1000%.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Neal will be off to the Kraken this summer. Not sure the exact cost but Vegas took lots of bad contacts to stockpile assets. Seattle will attempt to follow their model to a T.

Our goalie situation will also be solved by the expansion draft, either directly with Seattle or indirectly.

James Neal was coming off a 23 goal season in Nashville and was only 29 at the time when Vegas nabbed him
Neal is 32 now and has 2 goals and can't skate anymore

no chance they take Neal

 

[McSuper]

Halls coming home boys

You just ruined my day . f*** no to Hall

 

[Canovin]

The RNH raise shouldn't be too signifcant, Yamamoto at this point is likely to get a modest bridge contract not a big raise, Barrie probably won't be re-signed at least not at big numbers (hopefully) and Nurse, Bear, Pulju and Bouchard aren't due for a raise until 2 years from now when Koskinen will be off the books and Neal will only have one year left. Attaching a valuable asset to rid of Neal makes no sense to be honest.

We can always gain assets to make up for the 2x 2nds. Look at Buffalo, they had the cap space to sign Hall. Not working out but they will get at least a 1st round pick for him at the deadline.
There's many uses for 6M. it can also go toward signing a 3C, portion of it towards a top 4 Dman, portion of it towards a starting goalie, etc. You can't do anything with dead cap

 

[Fourier]

Oh please. It's a reasonable opinion. I dont look down at people who want to keep Nuge long term either. That is also a reasonable opinion.

It is a fact that Yamamoto already does some things better than Nuge. Nuge does some things better, but hence why I said it is arguable. So sorry but you're way off base here.

Second, of course RNH will decline. Look at stats for all forwards like him. And btw just because he will be in decline doesnt mean he will be a bad player those years. He is also not in decline currently. Never said that

Age is impossible to ignore. If we sign him 7 years at 7 million. Its not a question of whether or not his contract will be an albatross, but how many years of it will. I happen to think our window to win is more than 7 years. And btw our standard for "albatross" is low considering how tight our cap is, and it will only get worse

And btw I love Nuge. I fully endorse a 7 million AAV deal, but only 3-4 years. It's just cold logic to restrict it

It is not a given his play will decline. His game is based mostly on his hockey sense. That is what makes him such a good complementary player. A guy like Pavelski has managed to avoid much of a drop off because like Nuge his game is primarily built on his cerebral assets rather than his physical assets. In fact, Pavelski ahs been a better player through his late 20's and his thrties than he was in his earlier days.

It's clearly not a sure thing that Nuge will play at the same level as he is right now for the full length of a long contract. But players like him tend not to drop off nearly as quickly as guys whose game relies on speed or a physical presence.