Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Blues Open for Business? Parayko Anyone?

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Shumakov would find a place on McDavid's wing

I thought Zykov / Puljujarvi / Rattie / Chaisson / (insert any other underperforming AHL, PTO or waiver wire pickup here) had that spot reserved?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Ryan with 1.25 retained for Lucic actually makes a lot of sense for both teams. We don’t gain cap, but get the more offensive player. They save millions of dollars for their cheap owner, and get a gritty leader to help the young guys

One of the very few deals that makes any sense is Ryan for Lucic but I think something like this doesn't happen until the summer of 2020 after his $3M bonus is paid and his deal is down to $10M on an $18M AAV over 3 years, and the Oilers will still probably have to retain. That or the CBA rules allow for more flexibility on buyouts or amnesty buyouts are allowed. As the expensive contracts change from 27+ to 21+ for the big payout, a shit ton of teams will be caught in the middle. 2020 CBA allows for us to buy that deal out and not take bad money back. My money says Lucic remains an Oiler till the summer of 2020 in either case as I still cant see that contract as tradable for 2 more seasons nor should we buy it out until we see if the CBA buyout rules get tweaked.

Personally they should allow for a full contract buyout at the teams prerogative if the player is paid 100% of his contract and then in exchange it doesn't count against the cap. Actually makes players on bad long term deals more money as they get the full payment of their contract and they can earn more with another team who may sign them for a lot less. Gives the teams that do it cap flexibility. The only thing is the poor teams will cry uncle to that as the rich teams can really take advantage of that whereas the Ottawas, Floridas, Anahiems, Colorados, Carolinas and Arizonas probably can not.

 

[The Nuge]

Them retaining kills any value in making that deal for them.

They trade a useful player for a useless one and now you're taking away 3.75 million in incentives.

No reason to try to sell the grit and leadership stuff either. He hasn't brought that here or at least it hasn't helped, no reason to believe he'd make that difference there.

If they would consider it it'd have to be purely about money and that's why they have no reason to retain.

Look at the contract structures of the 2 players. Ryan makes more than his 7.25 cap hit, and Lucic makes a lot less than his 6.0 cap hit. That’s why they do that trade. Even with retention, they’re saving money. The rest for them is just some extra incentive (and he has brought grit and leadership)

One of the very few deals that makes any sense is Ryan for Lucic but I think something like this doesn't happen until the summer of 2020 after his $3M bonus is paid and his deal is down to $10M on an $18M AAV over 3 years, and the Oilers will still probably have to retain

I agree about the timeline. I don’t agree about the retention though. Maybe for a different team, but it’s all down to money with Melnyk. No way we should retain. They can retain and still save money.

And ya, and amnesty buyout solves things for us. I doubt it happens again though

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I agree about the timeline. I don’t agree about the retention though. Maybe for a different team, but it’s all down to money with Melnyk. No way we should retain. They can retain and still save money.

And ya, and amnesty buyout solves things for us. I doubt it happens again though

Depends on if Ryan is providing any offence or not. If he is scoring a dozen goals and Lucic 2 we may have to eat half a mil or something small but yeah I get your point.

As for amnesty I can see it happening for sure as contracts fundamentally change in the next 2 years. A lot of teams will be caught overpaying aging players as the RFA coming out of his entry level deal will be demanding more. Teams will be pushing for it hard. Was reported in a podcast as well. Can’t remember whose but there was discussion amnesty buyouts could be anticipated.

 

[The Nuge]

Depends on if Ryan is providing any offence or not. If he is scoring a dozen goals and Lucic 2 we may have to eat half a mil or something small but yeah I get your point.

As for amnesty I can see it happening for sure as contracts fundamentally change in the next 2 years. A lot of teams will be caught overpaying aging players as the RFA coming out of his entry level deal will be demanding more. Teams will be pushing for it hard. Was reported in a podcast as well. Can’t remember whose but there was discussion amnesty buyouts could be anticipated.

Even then though, I’d rather give them a pick to offset the player difference. With our top heavy structure, cap space is one of the most valuable things we could get.

Hypothetically speaking, if you had 3 choices

Lucic for Ryan
Lucic and a 2nd for Ryan (1.25 retained)
Lucic and a first for Ryan (2.5 retained)

What do you take? I’d be tempted to give up whatever it takes to get as small of cap hit as possible

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Even then though, I’d rather give them a pick to offset the player difference. With our top heavy structure, cap space is one of the most valuable things we could get.

Hypothetically speaking, if you had 3 choices

Lucic for Ryan
Lucic and a 2nd for Ryan (1.25 retained)
Lucic and a first for Ryan (2.5 retained)

What do you take? I’d be tempted to give up whatever it takes to get as small of cap hit as possible

I would take the middle one all day

Neither player is great, however Ryan has a shorter contract, shoots right and is more likely to actually generate offense for this team, imo.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Even then though, I’d rather give them a pick to offset the player difference. With our top heavy structure, cap space is one of the most valuable things we could get.

Hypothetically speaking, if you had 3 choices

Lucic for Ryan
Lucic and a 2nd for Ryan (1.25 retained)
Lucic and a first for Ryan (2.5 retained)

What do you take? I’d be tempted to give up whatever it takes to get as small of cap hit as possible

I give up picks vs cash I agree. Just circle back to Melnyk and how cash strapped he is and it won’t get better 2 years from now. With Ottawa I wouldn’t be surprised if they forego picks and want a low salary.

 

[redgrant]

Its funny everyone figuring out ways to get rid of Lucic. The media insists Lucic is part of something called the "identity line" and hes doing really really well.

Give me a f***ing break.

 

[The Nuge]

I give up picks vs cash I agree. Just circle back to Melnyk and how cash strapped he is and it won’t get better 2 years from now. With Ottawa I wouldn’t be surprised if they forego picks and want a low salary.

That’s where the sell job comes in though. Picks give them a cost controlled asset

Its funny everyone figuring out ways to get rid of Lucic. The media insists Lucic is part of something called the "identity line" and hes doing really really well.

Give me a ****ing break.

He is doing well on that line. He’s just not able to produce at a level worthy of his contract. If we were back in the days where we weren’t up against the cap, there’d be no reason to get rid of him

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

That’s where the sell job comes in though. Picks give them a cost controlled asset

True but there’s still cost. Not saying it isn’t doable as draft picks as it most certainly is. I just see bottom line dollars being the primary motivating factor for the Sens.

 

[The Nuge]

True but there’s still cost. Not saying it isn’t doable as draft picks as it most certainly is. I just see bottom line dollars being the primary motivating factor for the Sens.

Ya, there definitely is still a cost, but if you make a good pick, it saves you money in the long run. Getting a middle 6er in the draft is a lot cheaper than signing a middle 6er in free agency.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

He is doing well on that line. He’s just not able to produce at a level worthy of his contract. If we were back in the days where we weren’t up against the cap, there’d be no reason to get rid of him

That's about how I see it as well. His production is non-existent.

 

[StevenF1919]

Its funny everyone figuring out ways to get rid of Lucic. The media insists Lucic is part of something called the "identity line" and hes doing really really well.

Give me a ****ing break.

The identity line is just a nice way of saying shitty players who have cap hits too big to bury in the AHL.

 

[Fourier]

Not this offseason. That was the ask from Canes fans, but I don't remember a lot saying they'd deal Nuge for Faulk this past summer

It was the off season before that. But that is not exactly ancient history. As bad as Chia has been if many of the arm chair gm's were running the show things would be a lot worse despite many claims otherwise.

 

[TheRebuild]

That's about how I see it as well. His production is non-existent.

I'm not sure exactly what that lines does. But I think it does work as an effective way of taking Kassian and Lucic and isolating them to one line to keep them from pulling the rest of the team down around them. If they both have to be on the team, might as well put them on one line.

 

[nabob]

I actually see the Leafs going into the playoffs with their high octane offense. If they fail, they're going to take shot at signing Pietrangelo after next year when the salary cap increases to 85+ or so

Trade Nylander and who else to free up $8-9M if cap space for him?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I'm not sure exactly what that lines does. But I think it does work as an effective way of taking Kassian and Lucic and isolating them to one line to keep them from pulling the rest of the team down around them. If they both have to be on the team, might as well put them on one line.

That line wears out defensemen I guess, I mean they would be physically difficult to play against. I mean I don't know that Kassian has been as unproductive as Lucic, but they aren't getting much done overall.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Why didn't Chiarelli structure Lucic's contract like Nylanders and pay him most of it in his first few years? He'd be a lot easier to trade of his actual salary was $3M for the last half of the contract

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Why didn't Chiarelli structure Lucic's contract like Nylanders and pay him most of it in his first few years? He'd be a lot easier to trade of his actual salary was $3M for the last half of the contract

There were 3 other UFA that summer who have very similar contracts - Ladd, Backes, and Okposo. I think it was done as that was the similarity. That said his salary in his last 3 years is $4/5/4m with most of it in signing bonuses.

2020-21	NMC	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	$0	$3,000,000	$1,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000
2021-22	Modified NTC, NMC	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	$0	$2,500,000	$2,500,000	$5,000,000	$5,000,000
2022-23	Modified NTC, NMC	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	$0	$3,000,000	$1,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[belair]

The identity line is just a nice way of saying ****ty players who have cap hits too big to bury in the AHL.

Which is why you'd try to find a way of putting them together in a way that they could be of some use to the team without them negating the use of our primary contributors, no?

I'm not sure why people would continue to slap negativity on him. He gets it, he's not scoring.

 

[nabob]

I thought Zykov / Puljujarvi / Rattie / Chaisson / (insert any other underperforming AHL, PTO or waiver wire pickup here) had that spot reserved?

Puljujarvi on McDavid’s wing? yeah that doesn’t happen.

 

[belair]

It was the off season before that. But that is not exactly ancient history. As bad as Chia has been if many of the arm chair gm's were running the show things would be a lot worse despite many claims otherwise.

They'd be over the cap in the first fifteen minutes on the job.

 

[Mr Positive]

Why didn't Chiarelli structure Lucic's contract like Nylanders and pay him most of it in his first few years? He'd be a lot easier to trade of his actual salary was $3M for the last half of the contract

In a way it does, since it goes from 8 million to 4 million. That's the max that a team can make a contract decline.

The first 4 years go 8,8,7,6, and the last three go 4, 5, 4.

The plan was obviously that Lucic would at least be an impact player for those 4 years, and then in the last 3 it would be on the LTIR or traded to a team okay with adding cap.

Unfortunately Lucic was only a positive contributor in the first year. Last year was bad, this year he's a bit better but still not great, and we have another year of him at 6.

 

[oobga]

Why didn't Chiarelli structure Lucic's contract like Nylanders and pay him most of it in his first few years? He'd be a lot easier to trade of his actual salary was $3M for the last half of the contract

Lucic probably wanted to make sure he was still motivated to earn his money in the middle and later years of the deal. I'd say it's working swimmingly so far.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

It was the off season before that. But that is not exactly ancient history. As bad as Chia has been if many of the arm chair gm's were running the show things would be a lot worse despite many claims otherwise.

So what?

comparing Chia as a GM to the average hfboards poster and saying he's a good GM is like comparing Lucic to the average hfboards poster and saying he's a fantastic hockey player.

We aren't the peer group so being better than us says literally nothing about their competence.

It would be hard to do worse than Chiarelli, some here absolutely would but guess what no one here is being paid millions of dollars a year for their hockey expertise.