Rule suggestions for future ATDs

[ted2019]

I'm feeling a bit better today (just got my swabs done for covid/flu and should get results within an hour).

Just to touch on what's been discussed so far:

I think that we all should be open to suggestions on how to improve the overall experience of the ATD. That doesn't seem to something people are objecting to. I'll get caught up with the full score of the back and forth's throughout the day.

I do think we need to take a second and step back regarding the questioning of people's ability to stay neutral in voting. Am I 100% certain no one has ever voted against me just because of the way I handled myself, or rubbed someone(s) the wrong way? Not at all. I've made an ass out of myself and the honest reality is that could rub someone the wrong way when it comes to submitting votes.

However...

I think one of the biggest realizations for me going back 2 years now, besides not taking things personally, even when discussions get heated, is that even the folks who generally go far can be trusted to vote in an unbiased manner.

Some of these folks (TDMM, Dreak, BB, etc, etc) are quite knowledgeable and have won the ATD in previous seasons, and in a few cases, multiple times.

There really is no reason for people to continue to just stack the deck when they've already won the ATD. With that being said, being completely honest, and you saw some newer folks like ProfessorWhat mention, the ATD can be a bit intimidating. It's not always the most welcoming place, and I don't mean that in an absolute sense, as if people are treating others like shit. It's just the overall experience, if you're really trying to make noise post draft, can be overwhelming and when you continually get knocked out early and see the same general group of people advancing, can be perceived as cliquish.

With that being said, I think people here are willing to vote for who they think best in any given match ups. I've been very happy with the limited amount of instances we've had regarding personal attacks or just general snotty behavior. The last 2 drafts especially have gone pretty darn smoothly in my book after we had some really up and down ATD's (with me being an ass multiple times certainly).

I do think we can strive to make the section more accessible and help the new crowds that come in, feel welcomed and assist them in expanding their knowledge.

Either way, discussion is good. Let's please try and keep the personal stuff out of it and all will work itself out. By all means, please bring forth ideas for how we can improve the ATD. Nothing is absolute and with the minds that participate, we can certainly find ways to keep things from getting super stale or redundant.

Thanks everyone!

I enjoy the ATD, but life got in the way and someone got pissed at me for it. I would LOVE to come back next draft, but it seems like I'm not welcomed by at least one person.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I enjoy the ATD, but life got in the way and someone got pissed at me for it. I would LOVE to come back next draft, but it seems like I'm not welcomed by at least one person.

If you want to participate you'll have no objections from me, and I'd wager anyone else. Sometimes people let emotions run high and it can impact how we interact with others.

We always need members and you know what you're doing here. Please don't allow the idea that 1/2 people not liking you, as a reason for not taking part.

With that being said, if people feel the need to step away, I completely understand. There is a lot in life that matters more than the ATD, and if someone isn't getting the same enjoyment, I would never give them grief for stepping away.

 

[Professor What]

I enjoy the ATD, but life got in the way and someone got pissed at me for it. I would LOVE to come back next draft, but it seems like I'm not welcomed by at least one person.

I'm not going to get in the middle of the back and forth, but I want to state very clearly that I fully support your decision to take care of your mental wellbeing first. I don't know what was going on, and it's none of my business. But you have to take care of yourself, and I unfortunately know first hand what can happen if you don't.

 

[Professor What]

I just want to throw this out there, and if one or more of the veterans is willing to take it on, great, if not, I understand.

It would be helpful to have some sort of a primer put together for new and relatively inexperienced GM's. I'm not talking about a 200 page comprehensive guide or anything like that, but just a brief coverage of some of the key points, the do's and don't's, basic team concepts, and a few examples of those things being done well or poorly. I think it would be an immense help.

 

[Dreakmur]

I enjoy the ATD, but life got in the way and someone got pissed at me for it. I would LOVE to come back next draft, but it seems like I'm not welcomed by at least one person.

As far as I understand, your reason for leaving was acceptable. It left us in a bad spot, but your health is more important than the draft.

I would welcome you back.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I just want to throw this out there, and if one or more of the veterans is willing to take it on, great, if not, I understand.

It would be helpful to have some sort of a primer put together for new and relatively inexperienced GM's. I'm not talking about a 200 page comprehensive guide or anything like that, but just a brief coverage of some of the key points, the do's and don't's, basic team concepts, and a few examples of those things being done well or poorly. I think it would be an immense help.

There used to be a more newbie-friendly ATD on a Leafs forum (outside of hfboards), and @seventieslord actually had written something of a primer for newbies.

That forum (now defunct) is how we got a lot of new ATDers way back when.

BTW, PW, if you stick around and keep doing what you are doing, you're going to be a contender eventually. Best rookie team I've seen in awhile. Of course, it helps A LOT being involved in the HOH projects.

 

[Professor What]

There used to be a more newbie-friendly ATD on a Leafs forum (outside of hfboards), and @seventieslord actually had written something of a primer for newbies.

That forum (now defunct) is how we got a lot of new ATDers way back when.

BTW, PW, if you stick around and keep doing what you are doing, you're going to be a contender eventually. Best rookie team I've seen in awhile. Of course, it helps A LOT being involved in the HOH projects.

I'd certainly love to dig into something like that. I definitely think it would be helpful.

Thanks for the kind words as well. I've come to respect a lot of the posters here a lot, and you're one of them, so that makes it mean even more.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I just want to throw this out there, and if one or more of the veterans is willing to take it on, great, if not, I understand.

It would be helpful to have some sort of a primer put together for new and relatively inexperienced GM's. I'm not talking about a 200 page comprehensive guide or anything like that, but just a brief coverage of some of the key points, the do's and don't's, basic team concepts, and a few examples of those things being done well or poorly. I think it would be an immense help.

I think that is one reason new people were often co-GMs the first time through.

Good idea though to build a getting started guide!

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I just want to throw this out there, and if one or more of the veterans is willing to take it on, great, if not, I understand.

It would be helpful to have some sort of a primer put together for new and relatively inexperienced GM's. I'm not talking about a 200 page comprehensive guide or anything like that, but just a brief coverage of some of the key points, the do's and don't's, basic team concepts, and a few examples of those things being done well or poorly. I think it would be an immense help.

I sent you something like this before the start of the draft which perhaps could be the basis for what you're talking about.

Would be interested to hear your feedback on how it worked out for you... what was helpful, what wasn't, what I left out. Please PM me when you have time.

EDIT: You built a very strong team (especially for a Rookie), so hopefully it helped some

 

[ResilientBeast]

There used to be a more newbie-friendly ATD on a Leafs forum (outside of hfboards), and @seventieslord actually had written something of a primer for newbies.

That forum (now defunct) is how we got a lot of new ATDers way back when.

BTW, PW, if you stick around and keep doing what you are doing, you're going to be a contender eventually. Best rookie team I've seen in awhile. Of course, it helps A LOT being involved in the HOH projects.

A primer like that would be an interesting idea.

I would assume it should go coach downwards. Our coach bios don't really do a great job explaining the stylistic choices that a coach would enjoy having in a roster.

 

[Professor What]

I sent you something like this before the start of the draft which perhaps could be the basis for what you're talking about.

Would be interested to hear your feedback on how it worked out for you... what was helpful, what wasn't, what I left out. Please PM me when you have time.

EDIT: You built a very strong team (especially for a Rookie), so hopefully it helped some

I do remember that. I used it early on to try to create a strategy, and I do think it helped. I'd just forgotten about it since the draft (it has been more than five minutes ago. Lol). I just went back and dug it up, and honestly, everything seems to be good advice.

 

[Professor What]

A primer like that would be an interesting idea.

I would assume it should go coach downwards. Our coach bios don't really do a great job explaining the stylistic choices that a coach would enjoy having in a roster.

Help on coaches would be excellent. I really wonder if I made a mistake there. I tried to strike a regular season/playoff balance with my pick, and I don't think it worked.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

An Introductory Guide on Roster Construction would be a worthy project. I wouldn't necessarily mind sharing what I think about when making a team- but anyone viewing my thoughts should recognize that I'm considered ordinary at best in this thing- and not the person to use as a model if your goal is competing for a Championship.

What actually would be immediately useful to ALL participants, even highly experienced ones, and something with which I (or anyone in my shoes) can speak with clear authority, is the answer to the question "how do you earn my vote?!"

I can understand that competitive individuals won't necessarily want to share everything they've learned about team-creation: ideas they've accumulated in the past decade-plus of operation. However, I think EVERYONE is capable of sharing what they're looking for when casting their vote.

There are some simple, mechanical things everyone can do that do no harm to their ability to compete- things independent of Roster Construction...

DO post your team in the Assassination Thread.
DO try to add special touches like an ice-time chart, if you're up to it.
DO have a go at participating in an Assassination yourself, even if it's little more that saying something like "I agree with what most of 'X' said, but something I noticed about this squad was (insert your points here)."

DO NOT be afraid to ask for help when putting your Lines and Special Teams together. A lot of us (including myself) have our moments of dickishness, but generally speaking, we like having new arrivals around and want to aid them when we can.
DO NOT succumb to the temptation of sliming someone's pick in the draft-stage. We have a couple-dozen participants, usually. Sometimes more, sometimes less. You WILL see people who will put up a draft selection that will make you go "what in the actual f*** was THAT all about!?!" And- in this age of instant internet reaction, you might be inclined to promptly type your opprobrium. Don't. Hold your hand back like Dr. Strangelove and try not to be that guy. What's the upside of irritating someone needlessly?! Wait for the Draft-Summary thread to cut loose. That's what it's there for.
DO NOT stake positions greatly at-odds with a position that you have staked previously- at least not without rigorous documentation of your evolution (as opposed to spontaneous generation) on the matter. Few things unnerve me more than seeing someone do a volte face on a matter, and have no visible motivation except for the fact that their drafting places them in a position to benefit from arguing a different position.

 

[The Macho King]

DO NOT stake positions greatly at-odds with a position that you have staked previously- at least not without rigorous documentation of your evolution (as opposed to spontaneous generation) on the matter. Few things unnerve me more than seeing someone do a volte face on a matter, and have no visible motivation except for the fact that their drafting places them in a position to benefit from arguing a different position.

Also known as the "Macho can never draft Paul Coffey" rule.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Also known as the "Macho can never draft Paul Coffey" rule.

We'll find a way to make you break this rule

 

[Habsfan18]

Guys,

I just wanted to drop in and apologize for the role I had in the drama this week. While I stand by my own personal feelings on a lot of what I said, I did get carried away a few times while posting purely based on emotion, which is never good thing. In trying to state my case and prove a point, I unfairly lumped every participant in the same category, which I shouldn’t have done. That was unfair on my part.

The thought of exiting this game the way I did on a negative note just didn’t sit right with me, so I at least wanted to come and say this.

All the best, guys.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

The issue is upsets seem to happen far less in the ATD than they do in real life. My suggestion was to introduce some randomness into the process. Maybe give each team a 50/50 chance for showing up, and then allocate the rest based on voting. In other words, if 7 out of 10 people picked a GM's team, we'd give them a 60% chance of winning (averaging the 50/50 odds and 7/10), and their opponent gets a 40% chance. The outcome can then be simulated - ie flipping a loaded die for 4-7 games.

The obvious objection is this introduces too much chaos into the draft. Strong teams will sometimes be upset in the first round due to bad luck. My response is that's what happens in real life. Of course the losing GM would be frustrated, but it might give people more reason to participate in the playoffs. Now, if someone gets a tough matchup, why bother participating if they're sure everyone is going to vote for their opponent (whether its due to name recognition or the objective strength of their team)? This way, there's an incentive to participate because every time has a chance of making it to the next round, even if they're a heavy underdog. At the same time, skill is still rewarded. A strong GM's team would still be the favourite in every series - just not as decisive as it would otherwise be.

When I proposed this a few years ago, most people hated the idea - and I understand why. But I'll throw it out there again as one possible way to shake things up.

After a couple of weeks to reflect on this, I've concluded that something like this is The Way Forward. That said, perhaps it's an idea that should be put through its paces on a side-project first, e.g.: the OPPF Franchise or @Dirt 101 's righteously-motivated but hastily rolled-out "2-per-Decade" project.

We all should be able to see H.O.'s point: in ATD, someone who's deemed to have a 60% chance of winning is going to prevail 90+% of the time, under our current constraints. I don't think conclusions should be that foregone. It's also something that could bring some life to our "Group-of-Death" divisions, which contained teams that could have rolled on a bit had they not faced early buzzsaws.

If you want to win, then honestly, follow the general blueprint, and make your bets using the currency of the day (so say you have an alternative to VsX, it’s gonna take time for it to sell, so might as well use VsX for a bit before you cut it loose like an old school Jag lol). For me, I enjoy the draft and team building within some constraints. It was also fun trading. I was quite satisfied with my team, it obviously didn’t do much for the other participants here, but hey, I’m still with it.

I've reflected on this, too- and (as my efforts have shown) I don't think I would enjoy participating as much if I attempted to out-Orthodox the High Priests of Conventionality. I'm pretty sure I have more than a little bit of company when it comes to this.