Player Discussion Rudolfs Balcers - LW

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bert

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im not sure where you would like to put him? we don't necessarily even have a skilled centerman to put him with.
He just needs reps like most of the young players. DJ wont give it to them until management makes room for them and he is forced into doing it. I dont blame DJ either he is trying to win and needs to trust the players he puts on the ice. Its a catch 22 situation. Eventually though if Dorion has a plan DJ will have no choice to play the Balcers and Browns more than he is comfortable but what is required for them to develop.

Alas before I derail this thread, I dont really think management has a clear and decisive plan thats the true issue. The Reilly trade is a very good example. Until then we likely never truly find out what a player like Balcers is capable of. I personally have always been left wanting more through my viewings but I also dont think he has had the proper opportunity to truly show if he can be a scorer at the NHL level. I am fairly confident based on watching him unless he is playing in the top 6 I dont think he can be a solid contributer in the league.
 

jbeck5

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He just needs reps like most of the young players. DJ wont give it to them until management makes room for them and he is forced into doing it. I dont blame DJ either he is trying to win and needs to trust the players he puts on the ice. Its a catch 22 situation. Eventually though if Dorion has a plan DJ will have no choice to play the Balcers and Browns more than he is comfortable but what is required for them to develop.

Alas before I derail this thread, I dont really think management has a clear and decisive plan thats the true issue. The Reilly trade is a very good example. Until then we likely never truly find out what a player like Balcers is capable of. I personally have always been left wanting more through my viewings but I also dont think he has had the proper opportunity to truly show if he can be a scorer at the NHL level. I am fairly confident based on watching him unless he is playing in the top 6 I dont think he can be a solid contributer in the league.

I agree he needs reps, but I also agree he has to do something with his icetime to earn more.

Its not a good strategy to just hand ice time to players who haven't shown they deserve more.

If he actually is a bonafide top 6 talent, he would have playmaking or finishing ability that would show in flashes until he gets more ice time to show it consistently.

We've always had our top 6 players start on the bottom lines.

Bonk was our third line center before his offense kicked in.

Havlat started on the 4th line. After a month or two of him creating chances he moved up to the 4th line.

Hossa started on the third line with Bonk and arvedson and only got to the 2nd line once he put up 20+ goals.

So yes, he needs more reps.

But no, he doesn't deserve top 6 linemates or ice time until he does stuff with the ice time and players he is playing with.

The other thing to note, is aside from duclair at the top, and a couple guys like Sabourin at the bottom, everyone seems to be of roughly the same offensive ability.

We have like 8-10 forwards who could get 30-40 points depending on the opportunity.

Whether you're on the second line with brown and pageau or on the 4th line with Anisimov and namestnikov, you're playing with two typical 30-40 point players. (Pageau is having an outlier of a season before you respond that he's a 30 goal guy)

So it really doesn't matter where a callup plays in the lineup, youll have similarly talented linemates.
 
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OscarsCards

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Invisible, I think he had one good shift in the 2nd period other than that, he was invisible. That's the problem with these skilled small soft players, if they are not contributing offensively they are invisible. Good trade bait though, like Brannstrom, Abramov & Davidsson.
I couldn't agree more.
 
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OD99

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Invisible, I think he had one good shift in the 2nd period other than that, he was invisible. That's the problem with these skilled small soft players, if they are not contributing offensively they are invisible. Good trade bait though, like Brannstrom, Abramov & Davidsson.
Ya let's have lots of visible guys that might not be able to skate with the puck or score but at least they can make the glass shake when they bang in to it after they just miss a hit.

None of the players listed have shown to be soft at all - they all go to the dirty area to score goals and fight on the boards for possession.

Can we let Balcers have a few games in the NHL to get up to speed before we label him?

What if we had given up on Paul due to being invisible on the scoresheet and not imposing his size during his many, many call-ups? The most frustrating thing with him was that he didn't use his size to his advantage at all.
 

Tuna99

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Ya let's have lots of visible guys that might not be able to skate with the puck or score but at least they can make the glass shake when they bang in to it after they just miss a hit.

None of the players listed have shown to be soft at all - they all go to the dirty area to score goals and fight on the boards for possession.

Can we let Balcers have a few games in the NHL to get up to speed before we label him?

What if we had given up on Paul due to being invisible on the scoresheet and not imposing his size during his many, many call-ups? The most frustrating thing with him was that he didn't use his size to his advantage at all.

I agree, Balcers doesn’t mind playing between the dots and crashing the net, he’s a scorer because of his hunger in the goal scoring areas. He’s not big but he’s not soft
 

The Worst One

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Ya let's have lots of visible guys that might not be able to skate with the puck or score but at least they can make the glass shake when they bang in to it after they just miss a hit.

None of the players listed have shown to be soft at all - they all go to the dirty area to score goals and fight on the boards for possession.

Can we let Balcers have a few games in the NHL to get up to speed before we label him?

What if we had given up on Paul due to being invisible on the scoresheet and not imposing his size during his many, many call-ups? The most frustrating thing with him was that he didn't use his size to his advantage at all.
Man, you're my spirit animal.
 

aragorn

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Ya let's have lots of visible guys that might not be able to skate with the puck or score but at least they can make the glass shake when they bang in to it after they just miss a hit.

None of the players listed have shown to be soft at all - they all go to the dirty area to score goals and fight on the boards for possession.

Can we let Balcers have a few games in the NHL to get up to speed before we label him?

What if we had given up on Paul due to being invisible on the scoresheet and not imposing his size during his many, many call-ups? The most frustrating thing with him was that he didn't use his size to his advantage at all.
Most here did give up on Paul, I wasn't one of them. The difference is that Paul comes with NHL size & if Balcers is not producing offensively we don't get much else out of him. I also think that there won't be room for him on any future team, Tkachuk & Paul IMO have probably locked up their LW spots, Tkacuk in the top 6 & Paul likely at some point fits into the bottom six. Formenton IMO should also be part of any future top 9 which leaves one LW spot & it's quite likely that Chlapik will challenge for a LW spot next season too.

Duclair is also a LWer who plays the right side at the moment because Ottawa doesn't have enough RWers. If Ottawa is lucky enough to draft either Lafreniere or Byfield both can play LW & is most likely that Byfield starts at LW until they decide he is ready to play centre which could take a couple of yrs. IMO Balcers has to score to stay in the lineup & like Brannstrom if he is getting out-muscled for loose pucks his chances dwindle. Balcers is probably a good depth player to have around as an injury replacement but I doubt he wants that & he is probably more important as a trading piece to the organization. IMO Formenton, L. Brown & Batherson should all be in the lineup next season & Norris C/LW pushing for a spot too which also reduces Balcers chances of making the team unless he can find a way to produce offensively consistently.
 

OD99

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Most here did give up on Paul, I wasn't one of them. The difference is that Paul comes with NHL size & if Balcers is not producing offensively we don't get much else out of him. I also think that there won't be room for him on any future team, Tkachuk & Paul IMO have probably locked up their LW spots, Tkacuk in the top 6 & Paul likely at some point fits into the bottom six. Formenton IMO should also be part of any future top 9 which leaves one LW spot & it's quite likely that Chlapik will challenge for a LW spot next season too.

Duclair is also a LWer who plays the right side at the moment because Ottawa doesn't have enough RWers. If Ottawa is lucky enough to draft either Lafreniere or Byfield both can play LW & is most likely that Byfield starts at LW until they decide he is ready to play centre which could take a couple of yrs. IMO Balcers has to score to stay in the lineup & like Brannstrom if he is getting out-muscled for loose pucks his chances dwindle. Balcers is probably a good depth player to have around as an injury replacement but I doubt he wants that & he is probably more important as a trading piece to the organization. IMO Formenton, L. Brown & Batherson should all be in the lineup next season & Norris C/LW pushing for a spot too which also reduces Balcers chances of making the team unless he can find a way to produce offensively consistently.
Well for the record I didn't give up on Paul either and referenced his training camp injuries as part of the reason he wasn't in NHL sooner.

That said, he wasn't doing anything when he wasn't scoring either (and just being big doesn't count).

There are a ton of variables to your comment and a lot has to go right for Balcers to be squeezed out. Besides, he HAS proven to be able to score in the NHL and more than proven that the AHL is in his past.

He had one game, a few good shifts to boot, so how about we just let him play 10 or so games and see what he has produced by then and we can revisit?

Either way I certainly disagree with labeling him as soft.

I think I need an update on what that means from your point of view. Fighting is way down so that can't be a criteria any more or else the vast majority of the league is soft.

How are you defying soft? I did comment to you before that it seems as though, "small and soft" is one word to you...if you are small, you are obviously soft and I just don't see it that way.
 
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aragorn

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Well for the record I didn't give up on Paul either and referenced his training camp injuries as part of the reason he wasn't in NHL sooner.

That said, he wasn't doing anything when he wasn't scoring either (and just being big doesn't count).

There are a ton of variables to your comment and a lot has to go right for Balcers to be squeezed out. Besides, he HAS proven to be able to score in the NHL and more than proven that the AHL is in his past.

He had one game, a few good shifts to boot, so how about we just let him play 10 or so games and see what he has produced by then and we can revisit?

Either way I certainly disagree with labeling him as soft.

I think I need an update on what that means from your point of view. Fighting is way down so that can't be a criteria any more or else the vast majority of the league is soft.

How are you defying soft? I did comment to you before that it seems as though, "small and soft" is one word to you...if you are small, you are obviously soft and I just don't see it that way.
I see nothing about his game that I like, he's play small & soft since I don't see him hit at all & mostly stays around the perimeter like most small soft players do. He is exactly the kind of player I don't want on the team & would prefer to have guys who play with a lot more grit. He is somewhat skilled & clearly does well in the AHL but looks invisible in the NHL, reminds me so much of all the other small soft players people wanted to succeed & are now gone.
 

TheDebater

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I see nothing about his game that I like, he's play small & soft since I don't see him hit at all & mostly stays around the perimeter like most small soft players do. He is exactly the kind of player I don't want on the team & would prefer to have guys who play with a lot more grit. He is somewhat skilled & clearly does well in the AHL but looks invisible in the NHL, reminds me so much of all the other small soft players people wanted to succeed & are now gone.

He had 14 points in 36 games last season, and has played only two (2) (II) games this season, are you really going to put yourself in that spot by making this comment right now? Did you make it before he got called up from the AHL, or were you waiting for him to play two games before declaring him a bust?
 
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aragorn

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He had 14 points in 36 games last season, and has played only two (2) (II) games this season, are you really going to put yourself in that spot by making this comment right now? Did you make it before he got called up from the AHL, or were you waiting for him to play two games before declaring him a bust?

I'm not declaring him a bust, I just don't want that kind of player on the team, if he isn't producing pts he's invisible for most of the game & I want guys who play with more grit. Is 14 pts in 36 games suppose to be impressive when he isn't very good defensively & doesn't do much of anything else? I would much rather have Tkachuk, Paul & Formenton on LW than Balcers.
 

The Worst One

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I'm not declaring him a bust, I just don't want that kind of player on the team, if he isn't producing pts he's invisible for most of the game & I want guys who play with more grit. Is 14 pts in 36 games suppose to be impressive when he isn't very good defensively & doesn't do much of anything else? I would much rather have Tkachuk, Paul & Formenton on LW than Balcers.
Points will come, don't worry.
 

TheDebater

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I'm not declaring him a bust, I just don't want that kind of player on the team, if he isn't producing pts he's invisible for most of the game & I want guys who play with more grit. Is 14 pts in 36 games suppose to be impressive when he isn't very good defensively & doesn't do much of anything else? I would much rather have Tkachuk, Paul & Formenton on LW than Balcers.

You could say that about most offensive players in the league though. Very rarely do you have an offensive player that plays a physical in your face game. Balcers is not a Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid elite, heck even Malkin can be invisible for a guy his size when he is not scoring. I agree he will have to put up points, but that goes for every offensive type. Stamkos was pretty invisible tonight too minus a few chances and was Kucherov even playing?
 

Alf Silfversson

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I see nothing about his game that I like, he's play small & soft since I don't see him hit at all & mostly stays around the perimeter like most small soft players do. He is exactly the kind of player I don't want on the team & would prefer to have guys who play with a lot more grit. He is somewhat skilled & clearly does well in the AHL but looks invisible in the NHL, reminds me so much of all the other small soft players people wanted to succeed & are now gone.

Good grief. He brought the puck to the net several times tonight. How is that perimeter?

Basically your analysis is that if a player is under 6'1 he is soft. That goes up to 6'2 if he is from Europe.

How many times did Paul bring the puck to the net tonight? I might be wrong but I think it's zero. Is he a perimeter player?

This is kind of like how you decalered Pageau to "not be an NHL player" for years. The best part was when you said there was no place for him because of guys like Dziurzynski and Jakub Culek. :laugh: Good times.

Balcers made some very nice plays tonight. You just choose not to see them because anyone who is not huge somehow has no value to you.
 

danielpalfredsson

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I wonder what the org is thinking for contract for rudy? Will be interesting.

It's too early to figure out because how he sticks in the NHL over the next 30-40 games could change things.

Teams don't often give players long term contracts after two half seasons. If Balcers sticks in the NHL over the next half season, I would expect 1-2 years at 1M-1.5M. A 1 year deal would bridge him to arbitration with 3 RFA years remaining. (Unless my count is off)
 

aragorn

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Good grief. He brought the puck to the net several times tonight. How is that perimeter?

Basically your analysis is that if a player is under 6'1 he is soft. That goes up to 6'2 if he is from Europe.

How many times did Paul bring the puck to the net tonight? I might be wrong but I think it's zero. Is he a perimeter player?

This is kind of like how you decalered Pageau to "not be an NHL player" for years. The best part was when you said there was no place for him because of guys like Dziurzynski and Jakub Culek. :laugh: Good times.

Balcers made some very nice plays tonight. You just choose not to see them because anyone who is not huge somehow has no value to you.
Good grief? He brought the puck to the net on a breakaway & on one other occasion that I can recall, that's it. And whenever I watch him he mostly stays on the perimeter, how is that not a perimeter player? And he constantly does a flyby rather than hit anyone.

Basically your analysis of my analysis could not be more wrong probably because you like this kind of player & I do not. Paul was responsible for drawing two penalties & was screening the goalie on their last goal, he plays a strong defensive game, takes faceoffs on the right side, hits occasionally, can fight & chips in offensively, My guess is that you prefer these soft speedy soft perimeter offensively players & don't like good defensive players.

You were probably one of those people who wanted Zadina over Tkachuk. I don't see Balcers on a future team because there are other players who IMO are better & more important to the rebuild on the left side than a small soft perimeter player like Balcers. I would prefer Formenton, Paul & Tkachuk on the left side over Balcers.
 

The Worst One

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Good grief? He brought the puck to the net on a breakaway & on one other occasion that I can recall, that's it. And whenever I watch him he mostly stays on the perimeter, how is that not a perimeter player? And he constantly does a flyby rather than hit anyone.

Basically your analysis of my analysis could not be more wrong probably because you like this kind of player & I do not. Paul was responsible for drawing two penalties & was screening the goalie on their last goal, he plays a strong defensive game, takes faceoffs on the right side, hits occasionally, can fight & chips in offensively, My guess is that you prefer these soft speedy soft perimeter offensively players & don't like good defensive players.

You were probably one of those people who wanted Zadina over Tkachuk. I don't see Balcers on a future team because there are other players who IMO are better & more important to the rebuild on the left side than a small soft perimeter player like Balcers. I would prefer Formenton, Paul & Tkachuk on the left side over Balcers.
Meanwhile, I would prefer Balcers over Paul and Formenton.
 

The Worst One

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Paul I can understand but Formenton … really?
Absolutely, but rest assured that I really like Balcers and want him to succeed so bad.
Also, as I already stated in the Sens vs Bolts gdt, I wasn't happy with his performance against the Lightning. Yeah, he looked good in the second period, but he had to convert at least one of the two chances he had. Furthermore, you can make terrific plays all night long, but if the puck doesn't find the back of the net then it's all for nothing.
 
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Sweatred

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Paul I can understand but Formenton … really?

Paul is better (more effective/advanced) than Formenton at this point ... it’s also worth getting a good look at Paul with the glut potentially coming.
 

Alf Silfversson

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Good grief? He brought the puck to the net on a breakaway & on one other occasion that I can recall, that's it. And whenever I watch him he mostly stays on the perimeter, how is that not a perimeter player? And he constantly does a flyby rather than hit anyone.

Basically your analysis of my analysis could not be more wrong probably because you like this kind of player & I do not. Paul was responsible for drawing two penalties & was screening the goalie on their last goal, he plays a strong defensive game, takes faceoffs on the right side, hits occasionally, can fight & chips in offensively, My guess is that you prefer these soft speedy soft perimeter offensively players & don't like good defensive players.

You were probably one of those people who wanted Zadina over Tkachuk. I don't see Balcers on a future team because there are other players who IMO are better & more important to the rebuild on the left side than a small soft perimeter player like Balcers. I would prefer Formenton, Paul & Tkachuk on the left side over Balcers.

I like defensive players plenty. Pageau is a favourite of mine and so was Methot. Back in the day I loved watching Magnus Arvedsson.

The thing is that I like offensive players and defensive players and I don't care whether they're 5'9 or 6'6, from Sweden or Canada, as long they're good. It's called being an objective observer. Unbiased. Not really something you can make a claim to, TBH.

I was never saying Paul played poorly but rather that you apply different standards to players that are big and Canadian than you do to those who are smaller and European. Balcers played at least as well as Paul on Saturday but you just call him soft and small. Just like you did with Pageau for years. You look at a player's bio, see that he's under 6 feet and you label him soft. It's like clockwork.
 
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aragorn

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I like defensive players plenty. Pageau is a favourite of mine and so was Methot. Back in the day I loved watching Magnus Arvedsson.

The thing is that I like offensive players and defensive players and I don't care whether they're 5'9 or 6'6, from Sweden or Canada, as long they're good. It's called being an objective observer. Unbiased. Not really something you can make a claim to, TBH.

I was never saying Paul played poorly but rather that you apply different standards to players that are big and Canadian than you do to those who are smaller and European. Balcers played at least as well as Paul on Saturday but you just call him soft and small. Just like you did with Pageau for years. You look at a player's bio, see that he's under 6 feet and you label him soft. It's like clockwork.
I think you should care, hockey is a physical game where players are constantly fighting for space on the ice & bigger, stronger players are able to outmuscle smaller players in puck battles. Nationality doesn't matter to me, but NA players do have a little bit of an advantage given they have played a rugged style most of their lives, although that has changed somewhat with more & more non-NA players coming over at younger ages to learn the style & get used to the rink size. Smaller players need to be consistent playmakers & scorers to stay in the league IMO & if they are not scoring consistently I don't see a reason to keep them on the team, he is a good AHL player though. Maybe he will turn it around & become a consistent goal scorer in the NHL & you'll be proven right or maybe not.

No he did not, Balcers only had two decent plays while Paul was directly responsible for two PPs & directly responsible for a goal for screening the goalie in front of the net & stopped several offensive advances, he's clearly much better defensively. Other than those two plays Balcers was invisible skating around the perimeter doing his usual flybys & didn't hit a single person. Balcers would be lucky if he ever becomes as good as Pageau a 3rd line centre, but he'll never become as tough as Pageau or as good defensively. I'm not even sure if he will become as good offensively either. He is a good future trading piece though, as Johnathan Dahlen was, a good comparable.
 

Alf Silfversson

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I think you should care, hockey is a physical game where players are constantly fighting for space on the ice & bigger, stronger players are able to outmuscle smaller players in puck battles. Nationality doesn't matter to me, but NA players do have a little bit of an advantage given they have played a rugged style most of their lives, although that has changed somewhat with more & more non-NA players coming over at younger ages to learn the style & get used to the rink size. Smaller players need to be consistent playmakers & scorers to stay in the league IMO & if they are not scoring consistently I don't see a reason to keep them on the team, he is a good AHL player though. Maybe he will turn it around & become a consistent goal scorer in the NHL & you'll be proven right or maybe not.

No he did not, Balcers only had two decent plays while Paul was directly responsible for two PPs & directly responsible for a goal for screening the goalie in front of the net & stopped several offensive advances, he's clearly much better defensively. Other than those two plays Balcers was invisible skating around the perimeter doing his usual flybys & didn't hit a single person. Balcers would be lucky if he ever becomes as good as Pageau a 3rd line centre, but he'll never become as tough as Pageau or as good defensively. I'm not even sure if he will become as good offensively either. He is a good future trading piece though, as Johnathan Dahlen was, a good comparable.

It is a physical game. Thanks for pointing that out. :rolleyes:

Being quick, fast and talented are all physical traits. Some players use size to be effective, others use speed, yet others use skill. Almost all have to have smarts to excel in the NHL.

Smaller players don't need to consistently score to be effective. Pageau is fantastic without the puck, for example. Mitch Marner, ditto. If they do things that make us have, or finish, more chances than the other team does they are effective. Period. It doesn't matter if they don't hit. What matters is the puck. Hitting, like skating is a tool for getting or keeping the puck.

As for comparing Dahlen to Balcers? As lazy a comparison as it gets. Both slightly undersized and both European. The similarities kind of end there. Balcers is the same age as Dahlen, give or take a few months, and has outperfromed him at every level. He's also had a pretty nice season in the WHL, which last I checked is the most physical junior league in the world. Comparing Balcers to Dahlen would be basically the same as me saying Logan Brown is going to be Joe Colborne, Nick Paul is going to be Hugh Jessiman and Drake Batherson is the next Denis Hamel. Big players never make it but they're OK in the AHL. It's making easy, generalized statements on players based on their size and a very vague set of skills. And it doesn't work.

Maybe we'll get lucky though and some of our big players can turn into some of your favourites from years gone by like Buddy Robinson, Jakub Culek, Dave Dziurzynski and Derek Grant. Then we'll be sitting pretty. :sarcasm:
 
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