Player Discussion Rudolfs Balcers - LW

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Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Could be the next Hossa

People are panning the trade because supposedly no high end prospect came the other way, but how do we know Balcers won't become a top end player? He certainly seems to have the skill. That's the kind of call Dorion is paid to make.
well no one knows anything for certain

agreed, andhe deserves flack if hes wrong.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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God Says No

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Mar 16, 2012
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He was my favourite part of the trade (yes, more so than Norris), even though the trade was crappy.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
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What I like about Balcers

1 - seems to go faster with the puck then without it
2 - extremely goal hungry, the closer he gets to the blue paint the more desperate he gets
3 - boxy and strong on his skates, reminds me of the Russia scoring wingers like Sergei Samsonov
4 - No Fear
6 - wants to go forward with the puck all the time
5 - Great Name
 

OD99

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Oct 13, 2012
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Early impressions are good...I love his speed - he may well be a good fit with White later.

Has a nose for the net and pushes hard...believe I will put some higher expectations on him than when the trade initially happened now that I have seen him in Belleville and a couple of games with Ottawa.
 

Daffy

Registered User
Jun 10, 2010
3,735
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What I like about Balcers

1 - seems to go faster with the puck then without it
2 - extremely goal hungry, the closer he gets to the blue paint the more desperate he gets
3 - boxy and strong on his skates, reminds me of the Russia scoring wingers like Sergei Samsonov
4 - No Fear
6 - wants to go forward with the puck all the time
5 - Great Name

And to think, all these years, I've been counting to ten wrong..
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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well no one knows anything for certain

agreed, and he deserves flack if hes wrong.

Not that I care, but explain why there was so much flack BEFORE we know if he's right or wrong then. Really not my intention to defend Dorion or anything but I'm curious on what's the logic here. I was also super critical of the trade, but I didn't really crap on the return in itself because we have no idea what's in the cards when it's a futures package. I made the mistake to crap on the Turris trade back then but quickly I realized that it was purely emotional and non-founded. Most trades you have to wait and see.

All my experience through internet, I realized that there's 3 type of people really. The malcontents that will rate a movie 1/10 on IMBD because they didn't like it or were annoyed by something (plural, because they are natural malcontents), then you have those who will vote 10/10 because they really enjoyed the movie or those who will give that grade to compensate for the bunch of malcontents. Finally, there's normal people who will grade the movie accordingly to what they believe it deserves.

All that to say that many were giving Dorion a lot of flack for the trade before we could even know what happens, and the same goes for every trade. So, no matter what, flack will be given. I really don't think the "he deserves flack if hes wrong" statement holds anything in the reality of this board.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Not that I care, but explain why there was so much flack BEFORE we know if he's right or wrong then. Really not my intention to defend Dorion or anything but I'm curious on what's the logic here. I was also super critical of the trade, but I didn't really crap on the return in itself because we have no idea what's in the cards when it's a futures package. I made the mistake to crap on the Turris trade back then but quickly I realized that it was purely emotional and non-founded. Most trades you have to wait and see.

All my experience through internet, I realized that there's 3 type of people really. The malcontents that will rate a movie 1/10 on IMBD because they didn't like it or were annoyed by something (plural, because they are natural malcontents), then you have those who will vote 10/10 because they really enjoyed the movie or those who will give that grade to compensate for the bunch of malcontents. Finally, there's normal people who will grade the movie accordingly to what they believe it deserves.

All that to say that many were giving Dorion a lot of flack for the trade before we could even know what happens, and the same goes for every trade. So, no matter what, flack will be given. I really don't think the "he deserves flack if hes wrong" statement holds anything in the reality of this board.
Well. If he’s wrong I don’t like hearing excuses like “it’s hindsight now!” He’s wrong he’s wrong he’s paid to be right
 
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dumbdick

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May 31, 2008
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Not that I care, but explain why there was so much flack BEFORE we know if he's right or wrong then. Really not my intention to defend Dorion or anything but I'm curious on what's the logic here. I was also super critical of the trade, but I didn't really crap on the return in itself because we have no idea what's in the cards when it's a futures package. I made the mistake to crap on the Turris trade back then but quickly I realized that it was purely emotional and non-founded. Most trades you have to wait and see.

All my experience through internet, I realized that there's 3 type of people really. The malcontents that will rate a movie 1/10 on IMBD because they didn't like it or were annoyed by something (plural, because they are natural malcontents), then you have those who will vote 10/10 because they really enjoyed the movie or those who will give that grade to compensate for the bunch of malcontents. Finally, there's normal people who will grade the movie accordingly to what they believe it deserves.

All that to say that many were giving Dorion a lot of flack for the trade before we could even know what happens, and the same goes for every trade. So, no matter what, flack will be given. I really don't think the "he deserves flack if hes wrong" statement holds anything in the reality of this board.
I disagree a bit. I judge trades on the return extracted at the time of the deal, with the knowledge available at that time. If hoff turns into an anchor and boedker goes lights out, im still not giving dorion credit for it. Same way i wont give scouting too much credit for drafting stone. If they had any clue what they had, they would have never risked letting him slide to the late rounds. They deserve some credit, for sure, but its not like they stretched and pulled him way higher than he was projected.

Common thinking is that sens left value on the table for the karl deal. That's hard to excuse, regardless of how the players turn out.
 
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Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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I disagree a bit. I judge trades on the return extracted at the time of the deal, with the knowledge available at that time. If hoff turns into an anchor and boedker goes lights out, im still not giving dorion credit for it. Same way i wont give scouting too much credit for drafting stone. If they had any clue what they had, they would have never risked letting him slide to the late rounds. They deserve some credit, for sure, but its not like they stretched and pulled him way higher than he was projected.

Common thinking is that sens left value on the table for the karl deal. That's hard to excuse, regardless of how the players turn out.
It also doesn’t help that the same people complaining that you judged the trade too early will complain when you judge the trade in a couple years if it doesn’t go their way lol.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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Well. If he’s wrong I don’t like hearing excuses like “it’s hindsight now!” He’s wrong he’s wrong he’s paid to be right

But that's the thing, when you look at a trade, you have to look at it both ways, when it happened and in hindsight, when we know what the end result is.

You said "he deserves flack if hes wrong", which is totally understandable (well, always depends how far criticism go, bashing and name dropping is Pejorative Slured) but the problem I was talking about is that he already got a lot of flack about it BEFORE we know if he was right or wrong. Which is what I am saying doesn't make sense.

I disagree a bit. I judge trades on the return extracted at the time of the deal, with the knowledge available at that time. If hoff turns into an anchor and boedker goes lights out, im still not giving dorion credit for it. Same way i wont give scouting too much credit for drafting stone. If they had any clue what they had, they would have never risked letting him slide to the late rounds. They deserve some credit, for sure, but its not like they stretched and pulled him way higher than he was projected.

Common thinking is that sens left value on the table for the karl deal. That's hard to excuse, regardless of how the players turn out.

Ok but that's also what I am saying. Of course, I cannot explain everything in every post. But yes, analyze the trade when it happens, then come back and judge it years later in "hindsight". Personally, "common thinking" doesn't mean much to me. If everybody was saying the earth was square, I would till not give a crap about "common thinking".

Considering the circumstances, which is trading Karlsson WITHOUT an extension in place (which should never happen with a player of this caliber), aka UFA in 1 year, the package is pretty decent.

- a 1st (that could still be relatively high next year, depending on what happens with the Sharks, an aging core, some players declining and Karlsson leaving could really hurt them)
- a 2nd (that will probably be high with the Panthers pick as they are not looking like they'll make the playoffs this year)
- Josh Norris : pretty impressive athlete for his age, he might not be a high end talent but I think he can become a key player (I'm expecting a White-level kind of impact). It's a bit like people who thought that Tkachuk wouldn't be that good.
- Rudolf Balcers : wildcard there, not sure what he can become but the trade return will be impacted heavily on what he becomes.
- Tierney : good 3rd line player (Pageau level, better offensively, but not as good defensively), will probably be traded before his contract expires so those assets will also part of the return
- DeMelo : he was not supposed to be worth much but he is a decent player, decently quiet, exactly the type I want on my 3rd pair instead of the Widemans, Boros and Harpurs of this world.
- And maybe another 1st/2nd round pick, but we'll have to wait and see for that.

In terms of known Sens assets, it would have been like a 1st, a 2nd, White, Chlapik, Pageau, Harpur and conditionals (think of their value before this team downfall 1 year ago). Imagine situations were opposite and the Sens gave up all that for 1 year of Brent Burns (let's say he was 28 y/o), "hoping" to extend him. The pressure would be high on the GM.

My beef is more :

- Karlsson should have been extended long-term, particularly if Hoffman was already gone.
- if he really had to be traded, trade him with an extension in place to get the best return possible.
- If the decision to "rebuild" was made before, why they didn't go with the Vegas offer last TD? Probably as intriguing as this one, if not more.
- You trade your best D-man, but don't get any top-4 D-man in return? What the hell? It's not like bottoming doesn't matter this year, because we don't even have our own first. They should have tried to compete and then rebuild AFTER THIS SEASON if it went really bad. Defense, coaching and goaltending should have been addressed. There's talent on this team but they are a discombobulated team with poor structure, weak goaltending and big holes on defense.
 
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JD1

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Sep 12, 2005
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But that's the thing, when you look at a trade, you have to look at it both ways, when it happened and in hindsight, when we know what the end result is.

You said "he deserves flack if hes wrong", which is totally understandable (well, always depends how far criticism go, bashing and name dropping is ******ed) but the problem I was talking about is that he already got a lot of flack about it BEFORE we know if he was right or wrong. Which is what I am saying doesn't make sense.



Ok but that's also what I am saying. Of course, I cannot explain everything in every post. But yes, analyze the trade when it happens, then come back and judge it years later in "hindsight". Personally, "common thinking" doesn't mean much to me. If everybody was saying the earth was square, I would till not give a crap about "common thinking".

Considering the circumstances, which is trading Karlsson WITHOUT an extension in place (which should never happen with a player of this caliber), aka UFA in 1 year, the package is pretty decent.

- a 1st (that could still be relatively high next year, depending on what happens with the Sharks, an aging core, some players declining and Karlsson leaving could really hurt them)
- a 2nd (that will probably be high with the Panthers pick as they are not looking like they'll make the playoffs this year)
- Josh Norris : pretty impressive athlete for his age, he might not be a high end talent but I think he can become a key player (I'm expecting a White-level kind of impact). It's a bit like people who thought that Tkachuk wouldn't be that good.
- Rudolf Balcers : wildcard there, not sure what he can become but the trade return will be impacted heavily on what he becomes.
- Tierney : good 3rd line player (Pageau level, better offensively, but not as good defensively), will probably be traded before his contract expires so those assets will also part of the return
- DeMelo : he was not supposed to be worth much but he is a decent player, decently quiet, exactly the type I want on my 3rd pair instead of the Widemans, Boros and Harpurs of this world.
- And maybe another 1st/2nd round pick, but we'll have to wait and see for that.

In terms of known Sens assets, it would have been like a 1st, a 2nd, White, Chlapik, Pageau, Harpur and conditionals (think of their value before this team downfall 1 year ago). Imagine situations were opposite and the Sens gave up all that for 1 year of Brent Burns (let's say he was 28 y/o), "hoping" to extend him. The pressure would be high on the GM.

My beef is more :

- Karlsson should have been extended long-term, particularly if Hoffman was already gone.
- if he really had to be traded, trade him with an extension in place to get the best return possible.
- If the decision to "rebuild" was made before, why they didn't go with the Vegas offer last TD? Probably as intriguing as this one, if not more.
- You trade your best D-man, but don't get any top-4 D-man in return? What the hell? It's not like bottoming doesn't matter this year, because we don't even have our own first. They should have tried to compete and then rebuild AFTER THIS SEASON if it went really bad. Defense, coaching and goaltending should have been addressed. There's talent on this team but they are a discombobulated team with poor structure, weak goaltending and big holes on defense.

The problem with your beef is that it requires Karlsson's cooperation

Extend him long term...he has to sign

Trade him with extension in place....other GMs were given opportunity to speak to the Karlsson camp but here again he'd need to sign
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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It also doesn’t help that the same people complaining that you judged the trade too early will complain when you judge the trade in a couple years if it doesn’t go their way lol.

Don't know if you're referring to me or not, but if the trade turns out bad, then criticism will be deserved because when you're dealing a player of that caliber in his prime, you need to get a least a "structuring" package

But do you understand why I quoted your post initially? It's just that people are declaring trades as losses way too fast most of the time. It's like the Heatley deal, it looked like a sure loss but in the end it was a huge win (IMO)

Conclusion, you can't judge the result of a trade right away (that wouldn't be very smart), you can only talk about your expectations for all the pieces involved and then make a preemptive opinion.

The problem with your beef is that it requires Karlsson's cooperation

Extend him long term...he has to sign

Trade him with extension in place....other GMs were given opportunity to speak to the Karlsson camp but here again he'd need to sign

You're right that a part of my take is speculative, of course there could be reasons that we ignore that made EK wanting to leave. I think that, in the end, EK loves Ottawa and his fans, loves the team and would like to be here BUT not with Melnyk at the helm.

The future could have been :

Stone-Duchene-Tkachuk-White-Brown-Batherson-Chlapik-Formenton-Crookshank-Dzingel?Pageau?

Karlsson-Chabot-JBD-Wolanin-Jaros-Lajoie-Tychonick

Gustvasson-Hogberg-Daccord-Mandolese-Hollett

+ a different return for Hoffman (since EK and Hoff couldn't stay on the same team)

IMO you can build a very very good team with those assets, just need "modern" coaching and probably a veteran goalie in his prime (Andy and him split depending on who's hot), plus a stop gap veteran Top-4 D-man in his prime.

I think the players see that there could be a nice future but also look at Melnyk and might realize that it won't happen until he's gone.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
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Balcers needs a strong puck possession centre to maximize his play. He can carry his own, but to get even better results, a playmaking centre is most ideal; that's why he and Chlapik thrived well together.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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Pretty funny lol but Boucher never took him out of the lineup, he was injured and then sent down when he was healthy... plus he came but up about 2 months later and got a bigger role

I wouldnt be surprised if he is sent down at some point tho... but if he keeps up this level of play i suspect he is up for a while
 
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OscarsCards

Spooky action at a distance
Mar 13, 2013
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All right! It's two games before the break? I guess it's time to go back to get his magic. He's speed and hat-tricks but now he's only speed and the lowest time on ice.
 

DJB

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I love his hustle. Never gives up on a play and hounds the puck. Very creative with the puck along the boards . Not big but great at shielding the puck.
 
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