Blue Jays Discussion: Roy Halladay officially inducted in the 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Class

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theaub

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AA didnt officially work a day under Shapiro (AA's contract expired under Beeston and Shapiro took over a few days later) yet Shapirio gets the blame for that.

That's not a fair argument. The meeting with Shapiro and AA where Shapiro told him he shouldn't have made the Price/Tulo trades was reported on before Shapiro officially started.

(Also wow that seems about 100x more tone deaf in retrospect doesn't it...)
 

phillipmike

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That's not a fair argument. The meeting with Shapiro and AA where Shapiro told him he shouldn't have made the Price/Tulo trades was reported on before Shapiro officially started.

(Also wow that seems about 100x more tone deaf in retrospect doesn't it...)



AA: "Mark treated me with all the respect and class that could have asked for, and that he was tremendous..."

“Mark did everything he could in order for me to stay,” he said.

New Jays president Mark Shapiro ‘disappointed’ Alex Anthopoulos resigned | The Star

Shapiro really wanted him to stay.

Of course no one remembers that.
 
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Longshot

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That's not a fair argument. The meeting with Shapiro and AA where Shapiro told him he shouldn't have made the Price/Tulo trades was reported on before Shapiro officially started.

(Also wow that seems about 100x more tone deaf in retrospect doesn't it...)

Anything we have heard or read on the relationship between AA and Shapiro is mostly speculation. If I remember correctly, AA denied Shapiro had "scolded" him for those trades during their meeting. In hindsight, it seems obvious that AA determined pretty quickly he wasn't going to or didn't want to work with Shapiro. And on the other hand, I have never seen anything to indicate Shapiro was even remotely upset that AA left the organization.
 

hockeywiz542

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Marcus Stroman is off the board. What does that mean for...
The 28-year-old right-hander was the supposed prize of the starting pitching trade market. He’s enjoying one of his best seasons as a pro, with a 2.96 ERA, a .656 OPS against and his first career All-Star selection. He comes with an extra year of control. So, when the Mets (the Mets?!) acquired him in exchange for pitching prospects Anthony Kay and Simeon Woods Richardson – non-Top-100 arms from a system that Baseball America recently ranked 26th out of 30 – it surprised many.

“Average return. Relief risk on both arms,” said one scout from an American League club. “The return seemed a little light,” an NL scout said. One rival general manager less equivocal: “I was shocked it wasn’t more.”

The Mets underpaying the Blue Jays for one of the premium arms on the trade market would appear to have little to do with the Diamondbacks. But every deadline-proximate trade creates ripples across the market. The top pitcher controlled through the 2020 season (rental with benefits?) is off the market at a surprisingly low price. The Diamondbacks have one, Robbie Ray, who will become a free agent after next season. Did the Stroman deal raise Ray’s trade value, or did it lower it?

The Blue Jays’ return may have dictated the price for pitchers with one full year of control remaining, and some laughed at the Mets for setting the market against themselves. After all, they’re not in the playoff hunt this year and they have other pitchers – pending free-agent Zack Wheeler and the more-controllable Noah Syndergaard – said to be available in trades. And it is entirely possible that, now that Stroman was had cheaply, starter-needy teams will be less likely to pay anything more than that for Ray. “It determines how the other teams see (Ray),” the GM said.

But other teams are not a monolith, and their opinions about Ray, compared with Stroman and compared with other pitchers with similar amounts of control, vary. The GM said his team had Stroman ranked over Ray, but the AL scout had those two flip-flopped. The fact that Ray misses bats and Stroman doesn’t mattered more to him than the fact that Ray misses the strike zone far more often than the new Mets right-hander does. It also matters that 27-year-old Ray is a left-hander who can get righties out. “I’d think a similar return (for Ray) is likely,” the AL scout said. “Maybe a tick better.”

(For what it’s worth, Mike Minor – also controlled through next season, but who, at 31, is significantly older than Stroman and Ray – has his supporters, too. His ERA is nearly a run lower than Ray’s, and his strikeout-to-walk ratio is almost identical. “I’d probably take Minor over (Ray),” the AL scout said. “Minor (has) a little less stuff but you can trust the command quite a bit more.”)
 

Longshot

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Of course no one remembers that.


I did remember correctly, but, let's be serious. What else was he going to say? AA wanted to continue on in baseball. If he burned bridges and ripped his successor his career in the sport would probably have been over.

Just because AA said Shapiro didn't "scold" him doesn't mean the conversation didn't have some tension to it or some implied criticism.
 
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phillipmike

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I did remember correctly, but, let's be serious. What else was he going to say? AA wanted to continue on in baseball. If he burned bridges and ripped his successor his career in the sport would probably have been over.

Just because AA said Shapiro didn't "scold" him doesn't mean the conversation didn't have some tension to it or some implied criticism.

Guy won Executive of the Year a few hours ago at that time, he could have said what he wanted or the "no comment" that Donaldson said on his departure if any of these acquisitions against Shapiro were true.

It didnt stop others like Tulo and Stroman from sounding off.

AA was in a big position of power, he sat out months; hand picked a high level executive position with the Dodgers and then got the Braves position. Saying "no comment" doesnt burn any bridges.
 

Mike Jones

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Anything we have heard or read on the relationship between AA and Shapiro is mostly speculation. If I remember correctly, AA denied Shapiro had "scolded" him for those trades during their meeting. In hindsight, it seems obvious that AA determined pretty quickly he wasn't going to or didn't want to work with Shapiro. And on the other hand, I have never seen anything to indicate Shapiro was even remotely upset that AA left the organization.
While I read that Shapiro was concerned by the number of prospects traded away in previous deals I thought the resported (or suspected) conflict had more to do with decision-making. It sounded like AA wanted to be in charge while Shapiro wanted a more deliberative process.
 

Longshot

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New Jays president Mark Shapiro ‘disappointed’ Alex Anthopoulos resigned | The Star

Shapiro really wanted him to stay.

Of course no one remembers that.

Again, let's be honest, what else was Shapiro going to say? It's his first day and the Canadian GM that got the Jays back to the post season for the first time in years leaves. Is he going to say: "No big deal, I don't think it would have worked out anyway"?

He's going to say all the right things and play nice.
 

phillipmike

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Again, let's be honest, what else was Shapiro going to say? It's his first day and the Canadian GM that got the Jays back to the post season for the first time in years leaves. Is he going to say: "No big deal, I don't think it would have worked out anyway"?

He's going to say all the right things and play nice.

No point evaluating what they say then - because according to you anything positive, neutral or negative will be viewed as negative for Shapiro.

But like i said before not everyone takes the high road. MANY former FO and players have no problem going the trashing route.
 

Suntouchable13

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Why would he scold AA for those trades? Then go on to hold off the rebuild for 2 full seasons, so much so that they got next to nothing for JD. He his a hypocrite then.
 

Longshot

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Guy won Executive of the Year a few hours ago at that time, he could have said what he wanted or the "no comment" that Donaldson said on his departure if any of these acquisitions against Shapiro were true.

It didnt stop others like Tulo and Stroman from sounding off.

AA was in a big position of power, he sat out months; hand picked a high level executive position with the Dodgers and then got the Braves position. Saying "no comment" doesnt burn any bridges.

Saying "no comment" after you're asked if you were "scolded" in a meeting by your new boss is virtually the same as confirming it happened. Once AA was on the show or the air or whatever (which he could have chosen not to do) his only choice was to play nice. AA may have been in a position of power, but that power would have dissolved completely if he shot his mouth off and ripped his previous employer.

And you can't compare Tulo and Stroman to AA. Tulo had tens of millions of guaranteed money owed to him and could say what he wanted. And, with Price not coming back, Stroman was the front-of-the-rotation starter for a team wanting to go back to the playoffs. His position was pretty secure.
 

Longshot

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No point evaluating what they say then - because according to you anything positive, neutral or negative will be viewed as negative for Shapiro.

I'm really not sure where you're seeing that. I think I'm saying at the time of AA's departure both AA and Shapiro were full of crap in their public comments. They were playing nice and saying all the right things for public consumption. I don't understand how you see that as me siding with one party or another in the situation.

And I agree with you there were many more players who left and were fine with it than those who were pissed.
 
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