Blue Jays Discussion: Roy Halladay officially inducted in the 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Class

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Longshot

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Jul 2, 2008
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Yes, you're right. I have no idea if the Mets are in a similar situation.

Mets are a curious case. Getting Stroman might be as much about next year as this year. There is talk they might deal Wheeler (pending free agent) and Syndergaard.

Trading Syndergaard is questionable to me. Like Stroman, he is arbitration eligible next year. A rotation of deGrom, Syndergaard and Stroman is a nice way to start the season.

Man, looking at their payroll makes me cringe. Cano owed $24 million a season for the next four years after this year. deGrom going up to $25 million next year and $35.5 the year after and almost $30 million for Cespedes next year.
 
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Longshot

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Personally, I would gladly take a prospect over Biagini. I do agree that it would be nice to have a controllable arm in the bullpen when there is a good chance that multiple arms will be on the move.

But Biagini isn’t exactly young and with him being just above average, he can easily be replaced by cheap veteran additions late in the offseason who can hopefully be flipped for more assets. I’d much rather have a lottery ticket prospect than Biagini. But then again I’m not the biggest fan of his anyway.

I hear what you're saying, but I also think at some point the Jays have to transition from "prospects, prospects, prospects" into keeping some of their established major league talent.

Biagini might not be the best example, because he is a bit older.

I just think there is a point that the philosophy of "let's get a guy and flip him for assets later" becomes overkill and it has to give way to actually keeping some guys to build up the team.
 

Mike Jones

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I hear what you're saying, but I also think at some point the Jays have to transition from "prospects, prospects, prospects" into keeping some of their established major league talent.

Biagini might not be the best example, because he is a bit older.

I just think there is a point that the philosophy of "let's get a guy and flip him for assets later" becomes overkill and it has to give way to actually keeping some guys to build up the team.
There's always waivers to fill in the blanks. Plus they got Biagini basically for free (Wasn't he a rule 5 pickup?) so it would be cool if they could flip him for a prospect or two.
 

hockeywiz542

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Roundtable reaction: Blue Jays deal Marcus Stroman to the...
John Sickels’ prospect analysis

Here’s a quick look at the newest members of the Jays organization.

Anthony Kay, LHP:

The Mets drafted Anthony Kay in the first round in 2016, 31st overall, from the University of Connecticut. He missed 2017 with Tommy John surgery but came back healthy in 2018 and held his own, posting a 4.26 ERA in 123 innings between Low A and High A with a nice 123/49 K/BB. He has remained successful overall in 2019, dominating Double A (1.49 in 66 innings, 70/23 K/BB) but has had some issues after a recent promotion to Triple A (6.61 in 31 innings, 26/11 K/BB).

Key, 24, is a 6-0, 218-pound lefty. He has a solid fastball at 91-94 mph, peaking at 95-96 on his best days. The pitch has movement and he combines it well with a solid curveball and changeup mixture. Although his control is often solid in terms of avoiding excessive walks, his command within the strike zone wobbles at times, leading to the occasional blow-up game. With more consistency, he could be a No. 3 starter and he should be ready for a trial by September.

Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP:

Woods Richardson was drafted in the second round in 2018 out of Kempner High School in Sugar Land, Texas. He was one of the youngest players available in last season’s draft and will be turning 19 this September. Despite his youth, he’s held his own in full-season ball this year, posting a 4.25 ERA with an excellent 97/17 K/BB in 78 innings. The K/IP and K/BB are excellent and more indicative of his ability than the raw ERA. He was promoted to High A by the Mets Sunday morning and it’s likely that the Jays will assign him to the same level.

Woods-Richardson is listed at 6-3, 210 pounds. He profiles well as a starter, featuring a 94-96 mph fastball, a big-breaking curve, a cutter and a changeup. All four of his pitches look very good, he usually throws strikes and he’s earned the respect of scouts with excellent mound presence beyond his years. He projects as a No. 3 starter at least, and given his youth, he could end up a No. 2. He’ll need time in the minors but his ceiling is quite high.
 

dangomon

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UNcle Dennis told everyone that Kawhi wanted to be in LA and he still helped lead the Raps to a championship.
Inter-NY rivalry is a bit different than Toronto and LA. Its like saying Tyson Barrie would rather play for the Habs after getting traded to the Leafs.
 

hockeywiz542

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Bowden: Grading the Marcus Stroman trade for the Blue Jays...
The Mets intend to hold on to Stroman rather than turn around and trade him by the deadline, according to club sources.

As for the Blue Jays’ return, Kay, 24, pitched at both Double A and Triple A this year, and in 19 games started, he was 8-6 with a 3.13 ERA. He struck out 96 and walked 34 in 97.2 innings of work. Richardson, 18, was the Mets’ second-round pick in the 2018 draft. He was 3-8 in the South Atlantic League with a 4.25 ERA in 20 starts, an 11.1 strikeouts-per-nine-innings ratio and 2.0 walks per nine.

The Blue Jays felt this offer was far superior to any other that had put in front of them, including those from the Yankees, and so they decided to pull the trigger before the Mets could decide to go in another direction. The two prospects the Mets gave up are solid but not elite, yet they still were seemingly better than anything else the Blue Jays could get. And the Mets have so many balls in the air right now that the Blue Jays were afraid if they didn’t act fast, this trade opportunity would evaporate.
The Blue Jays insist that they really like the upside of both pitchers they received in this deal. Time will eventually reveal how accurate their assessment is. In the meantime, here are my initial grades for both teams:

Mets trade grade: B+
Blue Jays trade grade: B-
 
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Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
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I think the general consensus is that Stroman is a solid #2 starter on most clubs in MLB when he's on his game. Although I agree that Shatkins should have held out until the deadline to see if they could get a better offer, SWR and Kay do have quality upside. If SWR ends up being #2 or #3 starter in a couple of years and Kay ends up being #4 or #5 starter by next season, it will end up being a decent haul for Stroman.
 
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dubplatepressure

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I think the general consensus is that Stroman is a solid #2 starter on most clubs in MLB when he's on his game. Although I agree that Shatkins should have held out until the deadline to see if they could get a better offer, SWR and Kay do have quality upside. If SWR ends up being #2 or #3 starter in a couple of years and Kay ends up being #4 or #5 starter by next season, it will end up being a decent haul for Stroman.

What do you think the chances of that are though?

In a study by Baseball America, just 20.1% of the prospects traded at the July 31 deadline since 2003 ever played at least two years in the major leagues and had a positive career Wins Above Replacement.

Opinion: Marcus Stroman trade is a stroke of genius by the Mets
 

as Pure as Evil

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got to say the further we get in to this rebuild the more it feels what the cubs did. the loaded up on high end prospects from Rizzo schwaber Bryant(whom we drafted with a flyer) baez then proceeded to buy the pitching staff in free agency and trades
 

Longshot

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If SWR ends up being #2 or #3 starter in a couple of years and Kay ends up being #4 or #5 starter by next season, it will end up being a decent haul for Stroman.

Hoping for a 20-year-old to be the number 2 or 3 starter on a major league teams is a leap. I'm thinking the timeline on SWR is more like five or six years.
 

Discoverer

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Hoping for a 20-year-old to be the number 2 or 3 starter on a major league teams is a leap. I'm thinking the timeline on SWR is more like five or six years.

He's already playing full season ball. Even if they're really patient with him and let him spend a full year at each level, that's still just three years away.

Other than blowing out his arm or something, 5-6 years is basically a worst case scenario for his development because it would mean he had to spend multiple seasons at multiple different levels. Development isn't linear, but that would be terrible progression from a guy who's completely dominating right now as one of the youngest pitchers at his level.
 
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Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
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If SWR ends up as a 2/3 then the trade is a big dub. Personally I think the package as a whole was indeed a little light, but the kid is certainly intriguing and he lines up well with Pearson/Manoah/Pardinho's timeline.
 

Longshot

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He's already playing full season ball. Even if they're really patient with him and let him spend a full year at each level, that's still just three years away.

Other than blowing out his arm or something, 5-6 years is basically a worst case scenario for his development because it would mean he had to spend multiple seasons at multiple different levels. Development isn't linear, but that would be terrible progression from a guy who's completely dominating right now as one of the youngest pitchers at his level.

I didn't say he wouldn't be in the big leagues or wouldn't develop fast.

I said: hoping he will be a 2nd or 3rd starter on a major league team at 20 is a leap. He might reach the majors at 20 or 21, but then it might take two or three seasons before he's even established in the rotation.

Aaron Sanchez was in the big leagues at 21, but pitched mainly out of the bullpen for his first two seasons (11 starts in 14). He didn't establish himself in the rotation until his age 23 season. Stroman, on the other hand, came up at 23 and was an immediate starter.
 

tmlms13

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Apr 11, 2012
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Waterloo, Ontario
How did they win the trade? They got prespects and not high ones either. They continue to trade players for nothing, just like Donaldson and Pillar and others. This rebuild may take close to a decade to complete.

I think you missed the joke.

Toronto wins Tavares for Stroman
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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I didnt see this before but it looks like we are getting 2 lower level pitchers from a list of 4.
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,390
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Toronto, Ontario
I didn't say he wouldn't be in the big leagues or wouldn't develop fast.

I said: hoping he will be a 2nd or 3rd starter on a major league team at 20 is a leap. He might reach the majors at 20 or 21, but then it might take two or three seasons before he's even established in the rotation.

Aaron Sanchez was in the big leagues at 21, but pitched mainly out of the bullpen for his first two seasons (11 starts in 14). He didn't establish himself in the rotation until his age 23 season. Stroman, on the other hand, came up at 23 and was an immediate starter.

We know in Sanchez's case it was because he struggled with fastball command and getting deep into games. Stroman was drafted at 21 and already had the ability to pitch in the majors.
 
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