Blue Jays Discussion: Roy Halladay officially inducted in the 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Class

[DFF]

Stroman is an overrated pitcher whose best days are behind him. He's not a cy young level pitcher and never will be. The Jays got futures for a pitcher who had no future with the team. Solid trade for Toronto.

They would be lucky if one of the guys turn out to be anywhere as good as him

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Seems like an underwhelming return, but have no choice to wait a few years to accurately judge whether this was worth it.

Two things that came to mind:

1. The Mets? Why were they after Stroman considering who they may be unloading?

2. A 24-year old pitching prospect seems 2/3 years older than what I would be expecting/hoping to see the team get back for a 28-year old pitcher.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Same site that tweeted this?



any formula that sees a 17.5 million underpay on a 28.4 million dollar player, doesn't look acceptable so they tweak a couple things that somehow almost triples Kay's value, take 40% off Stroman's value, and turns it into a 1.2 million underpay doesn't seem like something I should be trusting to value things.

Yeah, I found that weird cause a few days ago I ran their simulator on Stroman and remembered it showing his value closer to what I had calculated (28-30m). This looks incredibly ad hoc if not amateurish on their part. When the facts don't support your model, you change the model, you don't just alter the facts. lol

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

In more positive news, Kloff is dealing for the Canadians so far tonight: 5ip 4h 0r 4bb 7so.

 

[landy92mack29]

Be interesting where the Jays assign SWR as the Mets had recently promoted him to high A but he hadn't made a appearance yet. The video I've seen on him I really like and think he'll be on most top 100 lists at some point next year. Not the biggest fan of Kay as he seems like another low upside back end rotation arm which the Jays have plenty of but he should be a valuable piece at least. I'm ok with the return but mainly because I like the potential of SWR which is a lot of faith and they still should've got another solid piece in the 5-10 range. Still expect them to make 2-3 more trades so hopefully they don't go the safe route with the returns, go for upside.

 

[tmlms13]

Stroman with the reverse Tavares I approve

I think Toronto won that trade pretty easy.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Anyone optimistic about what Shatkins can get for Giles?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Bo Bichette was removed from the game and spotted in the dugout hugging teammates.

 

[bentharbs]

At least we aren't the Mets LOL

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Anyone optimistic about what Shatkins can get for Giles?

Some R league pitcher we've never heard of.

 

[hoglund]

I think Toronto won that trade pretty easy.

How did they win the trade? They got prespects and not high ones either. They continue to trade players for nothing, just like Donaldson and Pillar and others. This rebuild may take close to a decade to complete.

 

[Forgotusername]

How did they win the trade? They got prespects and not high ones either. They continue to trade players for nothing, just like Donaldson and Pillar and others. This rebuild may take close to a decade to complete.

You weren't getting a high end prospect for Pillar. Donaldson was just handed badly. He should have been traded in the prior off season, but ownership wouldn't let them.

 

[horner]

Anyone optimistic about what Shatkins can get for Giles?

They need to get the best possible return.
Don't just focus on pitching.
You can always turn possitional players into pitchers.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I mean it's pretty obvious the Jays just wanted someone with goggles. They need goggles to win, and they just traded Sogard, so...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I guess this deal depends on how the Jays value the two prospects. If they think they are borderline top 100 guys (i.e. they'd be somewhere around the top 125), then the deal works in the favour of the Jays. That's likely what they think.

Coming from a non-expert, I'm fine with the trade, but think they could have also picked up another lottery ticket 3rd piece to be thrown in to make it a true-win for the Jays.

 

[hoglund]

You weren't getting a high end prospect for Pillar. Donaldson was just handed badly. He should have been traded in the prior off season, but ownership wouldn't let them.

Shouldn't they have gotten higher prospects for Stroman?

 

[Mike Jones]

I wonder if Stroman was sent to the Mets because he really wanted to go to the Yankees.

I agree that the return is underwhelming. When I was watching news coverage of the trade I kept asking myself "It can't be just these two - who's the third guy coming back? There has to be a third guy coming from the Mets in this deal somewhere. What do you mean there's no third guy?"

 

[justafan22]

Do people forget that the majority of this fanbase wanted Anthopoulos fired midway through 2014?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Stroman trade was inevitable, but the end still came with surprises - TSN.ca

It’s a somewhat intriguing return, if only because the initial reaction around baseball is that it’s a tad light.

Neither arm was considered a top 100 prospect, a subjective number that fails to even begin to tell the whole story of what a player could eventually become.

They are two very different pitchers at very different points on the development curve.

In Kay, the Jays get a close-to-ready MLB arm, one who had success in Double-A this season before struggling in his first taste of Triple-A.
Woods Richardson is the upside play.

A second-round pick in the 2018 draft, the A-ball results are encouraging and the power stuff and pedigree are aspects of the profile that allow you to dream, but Woods Richardson could also be two years away from being two years away.

The package is far from what Blue Jays fans were expecting in terms of name value and prospect ranking, but it’s impossible to fully evaluate what Atkins was able to extract without knowing where the market truly sat.

One source confirmed the obvious: The Blue Jays front office liked both of them more than the industry consensus.

More and more, teams are awfully hesitant to part with their top prospects in exchange for veterans, even if they come with a year and a half of team control like Stroman does.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[theaub]

Do people forget that the majority of this fanbase wanted Anthopoulos fired midway through 2014?

Hell, midway through 2015 (four years ago today was Tulo's debut).

 

[phillipmike]

Jays had a 110M payroll this season.

They have an estimated 92M next season with arb estimates and options. If you deduct Giles and Galvis (assumed to be traded) and Travis (assumed to be released); Jays will have 70-80M committed in 2020. Hopefully we have a similar payroll and spend the 30-40M on pitching to use or move at next year's deadline.

 

[zeke]

Kay seems to fit in with our fake-rebuild mid 20s group of marginal talents.

SWR seems to fit in with our real-rebuild group of 17-22yr old higher end talents that might turn us into a contender in 3-5yrs.

It just bothers me that we traded most of our assets to add to the older fake-rebuild group, when we could have targeted exclusively the real-rebuild type prospects and just spent money on vets in the interim.

 

[theaub]

Jays had a 110M payroll this season.

They have an estimated 92M next season with arb estimates and options. If you deduct Giles and Galvis (assumed to be traded) and Travis (assumed to be released); Jays will have 70-80M committed in 2020. Hopefully we have a similar payroll and spend the 30-40M on pitching to use or move at next year's deadline.

How do you get to $70M? They have $30M committed if I subtract Galvis, and the arb guys I would keep maybe come in at $15M put together (and more like $10M if they non-tender Sanchez).

They are going to have so, so much money to spend this offseason, which absolutely terrifies me.

 

[Discoverer]

I wonder if Stroman was sent to the Mets because he really wanted to go to the Yankees.

Where do people come up with this stuff?