Round 9: Top Manager Poll

[Savant]

Round 8 Winner is Massimiliano Allegri

1. Carlo Ancelotti (26.92%)
2. Antonio Conte (32%)
3. Diego Simeone (37.04%)
4. Pep Guardiola (72.73%)
5. Jose Mourinho (36%)
6. Jurgen Klopp (44.44%)
7. Zinedine Zidane (30.77%)

8. Massimiliano Allegri (27.59%)

Sassuolo
Serie C1: 2007-08

Milan
Serie A: 2010-11
Supercoppa Italiana: 2011

Juventus
Serie A: 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17
Coppa Italia: 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17
Supercoppa Italiana: 2015, runner-up: 2014, 2016, 2017
UEFA Champions League: Runner-up: 2014-15, 2016-17

Individual
Panchina d'Oro Prima Divisione: 2007-08
Panchina d'Oro: 2008-09, 2014-15
Serie A Coach of the Year: 2011, 2015, 2016
Enzo Bearzot Award: 2015
IFFHS World's Best Club Coach (Third Place): 2015

Peter Bosz is added.

Next add:
Hasenhuttl - 1
Tite - 1
Valverde - 1

Click to read more...

 

[Evilo]

Blanc.
Add Valverde.

 

[Savant]

Voted Blanc. Adding Hasenhuttl.

 

[Luigi Habs]

I like Blanc and I rate him highly but why has nobody signed him since he was fired more than a year ago?

 

[Savant]

I like Blanc and I rate him highly but why has nobody signed him since he was fired more than a year ago?

He lost the game of musical chairs. I bet plenty of teams would trade out their manager for Blanc though.

 

[Luigi Habs]

I think Barca should have signed him. He coached on big stages, and has experience managing stars with big egos.

Arsenal are also morons for not taking the opportunity to replace Wenger with him. Also Inter and Milan should have made a move for him imo.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Changed my vote since last time. Jardim.

Add Tite.

 

[Havre]

Don't really know. I think Jardim has a very strong case. Loved what Blanc did with Bordeaux. Not equally convinced since even if his record in the league with PSG is excellent. What Löw has done with Germany is also quite special.

The one I don't get is Sampaoli. Not sure what he has done to warrant being pick already. Much older than most of the other candidates, but hasn't exactly won that much more (in many cases less).

 

[Deficient Mode]

The one I don't get is Sampaoli. Not sure what he has done to warrant being pick already. Much older than most of the other candidates, but hasn't exactly won that much more (in many cases less).

He won an international tournament with worse talent and depth than Argentina and Brazil.

 

[Havre]

He won an international tournament with worse talent and depth than Argentina and Brazil.

The same tournament they won after him as well. Under him they won it at home which is a huge advantage in these tournaments.

Not saying he isn't good, but "shiny new toy"-effect in my opinion. Played some nice football. Easy to like.

 

[Deficient Mode]

The same tournament they won after him as well. Under him they won it at home which is a huge advantage in these tournaments.

Not saying he isn't good, but "shiny new toy"-effect in my opinion. Played some nice football. Easy to like.

Shows that he left the team in good shape. You do know the manager can have a long-term impact on how the players function together, right? And the 2016 tournament was more of an exhibition.

 

[cgf]

Don't really know. I think Jardim has a very strong case. Loved what Blanc did with Bordeaux. Not equally convinced since even if his record in the league with PSG is excellent. What Löw has done with Germany is also quite special.

The one I don't get is Sampaoli. Not sure what he has done to warrant being pick already. Much older than most of the other candidates, but hasn't exactly won that much more (in many cases less).

Jogi is certainly "special". It takes a gift to butcher the squad selection as badly as he did for these last euros, to ensure that germany wouldn't win back-to-back titles.

How you can praise him and critique Sampaoli who's been just as successful with vastly less talent to select & a much shorter tenure, is puzzling.

 

[Havre]

Shows that he left the team in good shape. You do know the manager can have a long-term impact on how the players function together, right? And the 2016 tournament was more of an exhibition.

Yes. Typical for international management. See whatever causality you want. Clearly a good achievement, but all the managers on that list have done some good stuff.

Jogi is certainly "special". It takes a gift to butcher the squad selection as badly as he did for these last euros, to ensure that germany wouldn't win back-to-back titles.

How you can praise him and critique Sampaoli who's been just as successful with vastly less talent to select & a much shorter tenure, is puzzling.

Never said Löw has got it all perfect, but some of the stuff Germany has done earlier under him has been absolutely brilliant. Especially for a national team where you got far less time to prepare your team and obviously you can´t work on formations, movement etc. week after week.

It´s not like Sampaoli has gone from success to success all his career either.

 

[cgf]

Jogi has underachieved repeatedly relative to the talent he had to select from. So I have no idea what you are referring to with your "some of the stuff Germany has done earlier under him has been absolutely brilliant" comment.

Are you talking about the Ozil & Mueller generation's breakthrough in 2010?

 

[Havre]

Jogi has underachieved repeatedly relative to the talent he had to select from. So I have no idea what you are referring to with your "some of the stuff Germany has done earlier under him has been absolutely brilliant" comment.

Are you talking about the Ozil & Mueller generation's breakthrough in 2010?

4 semi-finals in a row. At times I loved that team. Ran into a extremely good Spanish team. With better players than he had available in my opinion. Not sure how that is underachieving.

Fine if you disagree. I know you don´t like him. Still don´t see how Sampaoli is better.

 

[Deficient Mode]

It´s not like Sampaoli has gone from success to success all his career either.

He has though. His year in the Chilean league was extremely successful too.

Chile hadn't made it past the quarterfinals of the Copa America in 20 years when he took over, and their World Cup qualifying campaign was in shambles.

 

[cgf]

4 semi-finals in a row. At times I loved that team. Ran into a extremely good Spanish team. With better players than he had available in my opinion. Not sure how that is underachieving.

Fine if you disagree. I know you don´t like him. Still don´t see how Sampaoli is better.

With Germany...since the start of the bundesliga and the full professionalization of the football in germany we have missed the SFs 3 times in the 13 WCs that have passed. Though Germany did not qualify for the first 3 European Championships in the 60s; we have made it at least to the SFs 9 times in the past 12 tourneys. Getting to the semis with germany is not a big deal; failing to do so is.

Although Spain was a real monster (that was actually well coached) and we didn't have a chance against them in 2008 with old man Lehmann in goal; I'll never stop believing that we would've pulled off the upset in 2010 if that silliness with argentina hadn't gotten Mueller suspended after the previous match or if Mesut had just gone down when he was fouled in the box to break up our counter, shortly before half time.

Either way, it wasn't spain's golden generation who eliminated us in 2012 or 2016. So those failures can not be pinned on them. Those rest squarely at Jogi's feet because of his poor squad selection and mediocre tactics that allowed the team to be eliminated in a match that they controlled comfortably the entire time.

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Yes Sampaoli had the most talent and structure to work with of any Chilean NT coach before him; but he still took that team to their greatest heights...even though Argentina is brimming with talent & feature one of the all time greats; Brazil still have Neymar & more talent, despite their recent down period; and Colombia is in the midst of a new golden generation that also puts more talent on the pitch than do the chileans; but despite that Sampaoli's team dominated on the pitch. They didn't just get results, but the way they played was extremely impressive & cohesive. He built on Bielsa's foundation and turned that team into a true behemoth.

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I mean s***, the german B team just beat Chile's golden generation (that has dominated SA) in the confed cup; if that doesn't highlight the talent disparity between what Sampaoli had to work with & what Jogi has had to work with, then god damn.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, I get the talent argument, but by that means, you could argue that a number of these managers who have more talent than anyone else in their leagues should be knocked down a peg or two.

It's a hard discussion. I just think it's difficult to judge as, even with the talent, he's still needed to manage clubs who get as far as they do.

 

[Havre]

With Germany...since the start of the bundesliga and the full professionalization of the football in germany we have missed the SFs 3 times in the 13 WCs that have passed. Though Germany did not qualify for the first 3 European Championships in the 60s; we have made it at least to the SFs 9 times in the past 12 tourneys. Getting to the semis with germany is not a big deal; failing to get to the semis is.

Although Spain was a real monster (that was actually well coached) and we didn't have a chance against them in 2008 with old man Lehmann in goal; I'll never stop believing that we would've pulled off the upset in 2010 if that silliness with argentina hadn't gotten Mueller suspended after the previous match or if Mesut had just gone down when he was fouled in the box to break up our counter, shortly before half time.

Either way, it wasn't spain's golden generation who eliminated us in 2012 or 2016. So those failures can not be pinned on them. Those rest squarely at Jogi's feet because of his poor squad selection and mediocre tactics that allowed the team to be eliminated in a match that they controlled comfortably the entire time.

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Yes Sampaoli had the most talent and structure to work with of any Chilean NT coach before him; but he still took that team to their greatest heights...even though Argentina is brimming with talent & feature one of the all time greats; Brazil still have Neymar & more talent, despite their recent down period; and Colombia is in the midst of a new golden generation that also puts more talent on the pitch than do the chileans; but despite that Sampaoli's team dominated on the pitch. They didn't just get results, but the way they played was extremely impressive & cohesive. He built on Bielsa's foundation and turned that team into a true behemoth.

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I mean s***, the german B team just beat Chile's golden generation (that has dominated SA) in the confed cup; if that doesn't highlight the talent disparity between what Sampaoli had to work with & what Jogi has had to work with, then god damn.

Because Germany got such a good coach

It´s fair enough. We won´t agree. I just mentioned Löw as an example. Mostly because I don´t see why Sampaoli is this highly rated - not because I necessarily think Löw is that good.

You mention 2008. I think that team was much better than the individual players would suggest. That might be just me. And I loved the speed Germany has played at at their best under Löw. Typically teams grind out results in international tournaments. Germany under Löw started a new trend for national teams in my opinion (at least the last 20 years or so).

 

[cgf]

My opinion on Jogi may seem harsh, because I agree that he does have his positives...and that philosophical emphasis on proactive & attractive football, and unit cohesion are good traits that played their part in the development/evolution of football thinking in germany* but he's stayed on too long. He's not the guy to take a powerhouse & dominate.

*even though he's been nowhere near as big a part of that as Pep Guardiola has. As the pressing revolution in Germany...that Kloppo was at the forefront of, and who's highlights include 7-1 as well as the "Klassiker" CL final...was created from studying Guardiola's Barcelona from afar. And Pep's work in possession was hugely influential on the new wave of german coaches and midfield players, especially once he was working in germany for them to study more intimately.

And yeah, it looks like we just won't agree on Sampoali

 

[cgf]

I mean, I get the talent argument, but by that means, you could argue that a number of these managers who have more talent than anyone else in their leagues should be knocked down a peg or two.

It's a hard discussion. I just think it's difficult to judge as, even with the talent, he's still needed to manage clubs who get as far as they do.

I agree that's a lot more complicated than: coaching rating = pts achieved / talent on hand. But getting the most out of the talent you have to work with and how well you do relative to the expected results is a big part of what makes a coach successful. That's why I will defend Guardiola to my dying breath even though he's spent inhuman amounts of money and always had a wealth of talent at his disposal that was expected to win a lot. While turning around to gush about how Nagelsmann took over the worst team in germany over the winter and turned them into an attractive european caliber team who were a better draw away from playing in the CL just a year & a half later while running a profit on the transfer market.

Both of them have done a great job of crafting a cohesive whole out of the talent level they've had to work with and have shaped the identity & footballing philosophy of their clubs in a positive way that can reverberate through for many head coaches to come...like we've seen with BMG were Favre's advanced thinking in possession is still on display even after old-school-AF Hecking is in charge two coaches later...and I am constantly impressed with how cohesively & well they play...even when I account for the talent Pep has had to work with. That's why I rate them so much. That's why I rate both Tuchel/Sarri & Blanc.

 

[Chimaera]

I agree, and I think that there's something to be said for teams who should win the Championship. There's also something to be said for managers who have done it.

I keep voting for Low, because I do think there's something to it, even if he's supposed to do it. Heck, he was pretty good for Stuttgart back in the day. He's not the most tactically advanced manager, and sure, Germany should get to the quarters in everything they do with the talent they've got (though for what it's worth, his sides have had some issues he had to manage around) but you still have to get it done. His awards and plaudits are still pretty high, and managing a national side of that importance for this long is also a difficult beast entirely.

But I'm not quite sure where he falls in the discussion. I think he does deserve a bit more praise than he gets.

 

[Savant]

Too close to call it before the deadline!

Bumping in case of a late push.

 

[cgf]

Too close to call it before the deadline!

Bumping in case of a late push.

Voted now, let's see if that helps

 

[Savant]

Next vote for Sampaoli or Blanc finishes this off