Round 2, Vote 9 (HOH Top Wingers)

[tarheelhockey]

2007-08 Atlanta Thrashers

Ilya Kovalchuk: -12 in 79 games

Mark Recchi: -16 in 53 games

 

[Hardyvan123]

Please, feel free to mention a few star players that were over -100 for their careers.

There probably aren't many for a host of reasons, a couple of them being mentioned in the thread, playing on horrible teams for a period of time and playing the point on the PP with that weird SHGA numbers mentioned by overpass.

the point of the matter is that plus/minus thrown out there without context doesn't mean a heck of alot.

Maybe exhibit A should have been a winger who was renowned defensively and had a pretty decent offensive career as well but probably won't come up for voting, despite being in the top 25 all time (well post 68 since we don't have records for it before then).

There are going to be players outside of the norm in terms of plus/minus and it's not going to be very telling.

Once again it would be nice to have records to nitpick over for every player in every round but sadly the focus is on one group of players.

I'll further this point by bringing up tarheelhockey's chart on top 5 and top 10 goal scoring for wingers up right now and Bondra.

I think it's important to note that Kovo did all of his work in a 30 team league were some variance is more likely to happen than say in a 6 team league were a 5-10th place finish hardly carries the same "weight" (all other things being equal), yet this is mentioned by barely anyone in this project.

Why is that?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe exhibit A should have been a winger who was renowned defensively and had a pretty decent offensive career as well but probably won't come up for voting, despite being in the top 25 all time (well post 68 since we don't have records for it before then).

Muller?

 

[MXD]

Muller?

Nice coincidence, actually.
The player in question is Brian Propp.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Nice coincidence, actually.
The player in question is Brian Propp.

I was actually thinking of a player with a much greater reputation defensively in Craig Ramsey (22) as Propp(25) is much more of an offensive guy first.

Not sure if either guy will make our list but they are probably better than 2 guys currently on it right now.

 

[MXD]

I was actually thinking of a player with a much greater reputation defensively in Craig Ramsey (22) as Propp(25) is much more of an offensive guy first.

Not sure if either guy will make our list but they are probably better than 2 guys currently on it right now.

Let's see it this way :

- BRIAN PROPP has to be quite a bit below Michel Goulet. As long as Goulet isn't in, he blocks the way for Propp.

- ONE COULD say the gap between them is somewhat similar to the gap between Kurri and Goulet. Maybe a wee bit smaller.

- KURRI made it in the early twenties. Goulet should, IMO, have been already in, and... well, I'm kindof lost right now, but he'll probably end up in the 41-45th range.

- HAVING SAID THAT... We're looking at a 20+ gap between Kurri and Goulet. A gap of 20 would put Propp out of our list.

- BUT THEN, we're stuck with the elephant in the room : Patrick Elias. Who actually looks decent in the current group and who is basically Brian Propp with a big season.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Please continue discussion in the vote 10 thread.

Thanks