Prospect Info: Round 2, Pick #50: Adam Ginning, D, Linkoping HC (SHL)

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
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I’m sure the cost would be high, but it seems like we should have traded into the beginning of the second round to get our Dman. There were several. The next Hagg does not sound like a good pick. Left handed too.

I would have thought a right handed ufa was possible. Now I think it’s a must and they will need to be young. Just not sure who we trade as the picks are used up obviously. I literally can’t take another year like the last few. They need to make changes ASAP. I know this is wrong place for this post but it fits.
 
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Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
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Biggest positive listed is basically "strong frame that can stay upright." The neutral zone tid bits are somewhat encouraging. Hagg is a one zone player

He moves better than him; that's a positive. Hagg is so unathletic; Ginning is at least a bit above-average there. At the u18s he was pretty willing to move up into the o-zone or rush, but it could be a thing they take out of his game knowing the Flyers. But I'm not sure he has the hockey sense and puck skills on small ice to not simplify. He did pass a little better there too, but again, big ice. Bode Wilde passed better too.

I will go back and watch u18 footage after the draft at some point, because he was 100% better there than my impressions early on, but I still wasn't especially ecstatic about his play.
 
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Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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Drafting another Lefty defensemen is really strange to me.

Provorov is 21
Sanheim is 22
Hagg is 23
Morin is 23
Kalynuk is 21
Hogberg is 20
Bernhardt is 20

Hextall even said he was targetting right-handed defensemen. Like, how much could they really loved Ginning to ignore all of the above and draft him?
 

CutOnDime97

Too Showman
Mar 29, 2008
15,589
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Biggest positive listed is basically "strong frame that can stay upright." The neutral zone tid bits are somewhat encouraging. Hagg is a one zone player
Yeah it's such a weird write up. Basically just trashing him, yet they still ranked him #73 so there must be something there.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
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Adding two d-men afterwards makes me like this pick even less. And I already really didn't like it. Way too many difference makers on the board still.

Fwiw, some stats:

DgZCC21VAAENkb8.jpg:large
 

bauer

I WANT GOALS
Nov 11, 2007
4,587
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Drafting another Lefty defensemen is really strange to me.

Provorov is 21
Sanheim is 22
Hagg is 23
Morin is 23
Kalynuk is 21
Hogberg is 20
Bernhardt is 20

Hextall even said he was targetting right-handed defensemen. Like, how much could they really loved Ginning to ignore all of the above and draft him?

hopefully this means Hagg will eventually be sent packing as part of a package for a RHD or scoring winger.
 

Dumpster Flyers

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
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Seems like a **** pick, but who knows :dunno:

Flyers scouting staff has its contingent of dinosaurs, so they'll throw away picks on players with archaic skill sets every now and then. At least this time they wasted a 2nd and not 11th overall.
 

The Madrigal

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Apr 26, 2016
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Craig Button had him 34 on his final rankings and Bob McKenzie had him 43. Most scouting services had him in the 40's or 50's.

I can see preferring someone else but trashing the pick and making it out to be a horrible reach is quite simply incorrect.
 

Dumpster Flyers

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
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Seems like a **** pick, but who knows :dunno:

Flyers scouting staff has its contingent of dinosaurs, so they'll throw away picks on players with archaic skill sets every now and then. At least this time they wasted a 2nd and not 11th overall.
 

The Madrigal

Registered User
Apr 26, 2016
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Button had him 34 and McKenzie had him 43. Most "scouting services" had him in the 40's or 50's.

I can see preferring someone else but the outrage is absurd and calling him a reach is simply incorrect.
 

sa cyred

Running Data Models
Sep 11, 2007
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Button had him 34 and McKenzie had him 43. Most "scouting services" had him in the 40's or 50's.

I can see preferring someone else but the outrage is absurd and calling him a reach is simply incorrect.

That’s the weirdest thing. Every scouting service from what I can see has him as a 2nd round talent. Internal Flyers org seems to be high on him. Weird to here people complain about everything he does and then grade him as a 2nd rounder.
 

renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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This is true. We'll just have to see if this new trend with smaller, speedier defenseman holds up. If so, Ghost is the poster child for this type of player. However, as we saw in this year's PO series with the Penguins, smaller players like Ghost can be exploited by bigger, stronger forwards. Cup winners don't build their defense around smurfs.
 

magnumpi

Roger got goofy with Cancer
Apr 22, 2018
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The kid played 12 SEL games as a 16 year old, and 28 SEL games as a 17 year old.

I wouldn't fret about his advanced stats at the #1 professional level in Sweden being below average. Just the fact that he earned that kind of time at his ages in the SEL should be a positive.

He also put up respectable stats in SuperElite and in tournaments, even captaining a Swedish international team.

I know people want more flash and are hung up on advanced stats, but I think the backlash is a bit strong for taking him 50th overall.


the last phrase is the key point/

so, there is backlash over the 50th pick in the draft? absurd
THese picks are shots in the dark. The odds are that a fan's hot shot dream pick will amount to nothing of note.

I can see if the Flyers passed on Patrick last season at #2 but hysterics over 2nd round picks is ridiculous.
 

Hakroach

Veteran Presence
Jan 4, 2005
1,278
2,355
Helsinki
People are having Hägg PTSD (I'm one of them). Lack of offensive skills is a bit scary in current NHL but some players can handle it.

I hope he developes into a good third pairing defenseman. Or at least something like Frederik Claesson.
 

Fossy21

Nobel Prize Deke
Mar 14, 2013
20,240
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Adding two d-men afterwards makes me like this pick even less. And I already really didn't like it. Way too many difference makers on the board still.

Fwiw, some stats:

DgZCC21VAAENkb8.jpg:large

That ES GAA stat is taking a kid’s relative value in a bottom pairing role in the SHL (where he’s compared to seasoned veterans, including some of the best defencemen outside the NHL) and comparing it to kids put in position to dominate on top pairings in the CHL and European junior hockey (where many of the bottom guys are long shots to ever play professional hockey). You’d also benefit from being on a defensively terrible team because terrible relative to terrible is just average.

He’s not going to be Dahlin at that level, obviously (which makes me curious what his value in that stat was).
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
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Huron of the Lakes
That ES GAA stat is taking a kid’s relative value in a bottom pairing role in the SHL (where he’s compared to seasoned veterans, including some of the best defencemen outside the NHL) and comparing it to kids put in position to dominate on top pairings in the CHL and European junior hockey (where many of the bottom guys are long shots to ever play professional hockey). You’d also benefit from being on a defensively terrible team because terrible relative to terrible is just average.

He’s not going to be Dahlin at that level, obviously (which makes me curious what his value in that stat was).

I'm aware the league he plays in; I'm aware scoring isn't his primary function, though that's a can of worms opening up. I just posted them as food for thought, not as ironclad proof of anything (I've seen him plenty for Sweden, so I'm not in the dark here about the merits of the player and already had an opinion pre-draft or before that stat dump). Though a draft player "playing" in a pro league is often worn as a badge of honor to show how good or mature that player is, so it goes both ways using a stat to show that they weren't especially good in that pro league.

And it's just goal differential. Anyone who even remotely cares about stats knows how fluky that can be and inaccurate. I don't know if possession numbers were tracked for him like they were for some players (Lundkvist for example). Teens with NHL potential have regularly done well in that area, when SHL tracking is provided, to indicate some correlation. But regarding this: "You’d also benefit from being on a defensively terrible team because terrible relative to terrible is just average." It's statistically relative to your team. It doesn't matter if your team is good or bad.
 

nuclear reactor

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
1,004
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Ginning is a good pick. Hextall has confidence in Provorov, Gostisbehere, Sanheim, and Myers. At this point he probably has doubts about Morin and Hagg, so he’s adding a somewhat similar player into the pipeline. Players like Ginning still have a role in this league. If Ginning can establish a good first pass and adapt to NHL quickness (i.e. Hagg with puck skills), he will be a very valuable asset, and complement those other players perfectly. Even if you don’t like Ginning, the “dinosaur” GMs that are disparaged around here value these players, and at worst Ginning could be a trade chip to get an immediate roster player in the next couple of years.
 
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